17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

Emeralgem · Apr 12, 2012

Kimberlyd125 said:
I disagree. It's not the same.

The way it was stated was not an order, it was a suggestion.

Dispatcher never said the words "don't do it" or "stop doing it".

He said we don't NEED you to do that.

Not an order.

I never stated it was an order, however he was advised/instructed by dispatch NOT to follow TM....As I see it, we'll just have to hopefully respectfully agree to disagree..JMHO

Emeralgem · Apr 12, 2012

momshrink said:
I read somewhere that the states attorney team interviewed and reinterviewed witnesses. They cannot interview GZ without his attorney present and if they did, his attorney would tell him not to answer anything. Right now the facts are that GZ shot Trayvon dead. Motive and details are bring investigated. I think investigative procedure must be followed.
IMO they had a lot of work to do because of sloppy work on the part of SPD.
All MOO, JMO.

An attorney for one of the witnesses was on one of the talk shows last night and stated he was not impressed with how the states attorney team handled the interview with his client.. Sorry no link..JMHO

m00c0w · Apr 12, 2012

raeann said:
UMMMM....then he would have HAD to remove it to be searched by LE when he was taken into custody.....kind of hard to pat down someone through a bullet proof vest....just saying

especially someone who is known to carry weapons and SHOOT people!!!1

He was still wearing all of his other clothing. You can search someone with a vest on; I've done it myself. It would just make sense that he would have some sort of protection as most other targeted individuals have when they've been "perp-walked".

As for why police might have stuck it under his clothing... If you know someone's wearing a vest, you'll shoot for an area that's not protected. Level IIIA vests will stop most handgun rounds from point-blank range.

Again, all just speculation about the wearing of the vest. Just throwing some theories out there that may have not been considered. JMO

2goldfish · Apr 12, 2012

Karmady said:
Hi there. I'm a noob, too. It's a tough crowd in here! lol

who, us?? we're sweet! we only throw thwartcakes :biglaugh: :cupcake:

2goldfish · Apr 12, 2012

Rhyme & Reason said:
Wow

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...412_1_face-murder-charges-today-show-accident

From the Probable Cause Affidavit:

Martin tried to run home, the affidavit says, but was followed by Zimmerman. "Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin."

The affidavit goes on to say that "Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher" who told him to stop, and "continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."

oh GOOD that's done been said by an official source, everyone can stop playing semantics and splitting hairs about it.

suspicious1 · Apr 12, 2012

m00c0w said:
BBM

A dispatcher is not normally considered law-enforcement. They have not gone through POST certification, and they are not a sworn LEO. JMO

So if a dispatcher is giving me instructions on how I could SAVE my child's life....I shouldn't listen to them?

Velouria · Apr 12, 2012

Emeralgem said:
An attorney for one of the witnesses was on one of the talk shows last night and stated he was not impressed with how the states attorney team handled the interview with his client.. Sorry no link..JMHO

Thanks, Emeralgem. I hadn't heard about that. Wonder who the witness is?

m00c0w · Apr 12, 2012

2goldfish said:
oh GOOD that's done been said by an official source, everyone can stop playing semantics and splitting hairs about it.

It also says that the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers, but I did not see that in the transcripts, nor do I remember hearing it. JMO

Phoenixfla · Apr 12, 2012

Emeralgem said:
BBM IMHO.. The dispatch person telling GZ " We do not need you to do that" is the same as instructing him NOT to follow TM.. For certain, the dispatcher was not telling GZ he wanted him to follow TM as some here have suggested.JMHO...

We will have to agree to disagree on that. I see a difference between "you dont have to do that" and "dont do that"
:

Nova · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
I find it very unlikely that he thought to himself "well it was TM that was screaming, but if I just say it was me then I'll be able to claim SYG if I get arrested." I could be wrong, but I think the 911 scream audio will be crutial to his defense.

That wasn't my theory, but somebody else's. I think it's more likely that either (a) GZ is telling the truth about yelling for help; or (b) he didn't know there would be audio tapes of the incident and thought it would help his SYG case to CLAIM he yelled for help. Either way, as reported to us, it's a fairly vague assertion. The wailing on the 911 tape is more than a call for help; those are screams of abject terror. Call me crazy, but I think it's more likely such screaming came from the guy WITHOUT a gun.

What about the witness statement that the guy in the red jacket was screaming?

That witness saw two men wrestling in the dark. IIRC, he believes the guy in red was on the bottom.

I think any one of us seeing two men wrestling might well assume (a) the guy on the bottom was the victim and getting the worst of it; and (b) any screaming would be coming from that victim.

IMO, this is precisely the sort of witness testimony that has so often been proven to be problematic.

m00c0w · Apr 12, 2012

suspicious1 said:
So if a dispatcher is giving me instructions on how I could SAVE my child's life....I shouldn't listen to them?

I hope you realize that's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Instructions for administering CPR or the Heimlich Maneuver are worlds away from a vague, "We don't need you to do that."

Steft50 · Apr 12, 2012

LolaMoon08 said:
I also think that the autopsy is going to show that Trayvon had injuries of his own from being hit by George Zimmerman and this has played a role in why these charges have been brought.

I was also thinking that maybe it will show the angle and gsr/stipling don't line up with GZ's claims.

imo

songline · Apr 12, 2012

mommakk51 said:
Trying to catch up here.. Re the 911 tapes- what I meant by 2 people, was that the witness (John) stated that there were 2 people fighting by his balcony,one on bottom in red. After the shot, there was only a black guy left on the ground. (You also heard some witnesses say they heard 2 shots).. Further down the building, someone called in that people were fighting by their balcony also, and the one on top had on a WHITE shirt. We know that Tray cut through the middle of some condos on his way towards his house.This is where GZ lost sight of him.. COULD he have seen something he shouldn't have seen? Could he have stumbled upon a drug deal or something and then the dealer felt he needed to take care of Tray so he couldn't be a witness? And then, couldn't this same person have been running away when he ran right smack into GZ at the end of the sidewalk? He'd have had to attack GZ too. We have a witness saying that after the shot, when GZ was up walking, he was saying "OMG what just happened here?". There is so much to think about here, so much we don't know.. we don't know yet that the bullet that got Tray was from GZs gun.. I think this is a case of 2 people being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. That makes them BOTH victims.JMO

Please let me know if I am posting improperly. I thought this forum was to speculate and analyze what happened?

The white T-shirt intrigues me. Yes one witness did mention a white t-shirt.
BUT maybe Trayvon took off his hoodie, there has been no 3rd person sighting by anyone.
there was no mention of a 3rd person all along.
So while there is so much to think about, I hate to add more to the flames.

m00c0w · Apr 12, 2012

songline said:
The white T-shirt intrigues me. Yes one witness did mention a white t-shirt.
BUT maybe Trayvon took off his hoodie, there has been no 3rd person sighting by anyone.
there was no mention of a 3rd person all along.
So while there is so much to think about, I hate to add more to the flames.

According to the police report, Martin was still in his hoodie when police arrived on scene.

songline · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
We will have to agree to disagree on that. I see a difference between "you dont have to do that" and "dont do that"
:

ME too... it is a huge difference, because legally he can do it.
BUT, he should not have. He knew the cops were due soon.

Phoenixfla · Apr 12, 2012

frenchvixen said:
Man, if only she had said, "don't do that" to GZ, TM would have been alive now.

You may or may not be saying that with sarcasm, but i think that is a possibility. I am putting no blame on the dispatcher but if they said "do not follow him!" It could have affected the outcome.

Velouria · Apr 12, 2012

mfcmom said:
Oh my. Alan Dershowitz was just on Chris Matthews with Michael Smerconovish (sp) and trashed the probable cause affadavit, trashed the SP AC and said it was unethical, political and will probably be tossed. JMO I think replay in two hours. JMO

Is he still around? Good grief. How long has he been practicing in Florida?

princesspjs · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
We will have to agree to disagree on that. I see a difference between "you dont have to do that" and "dont do that"
:

GZ was asked if he was following Trayvon and GZ said that he was.

What was said is "we don't need you to do that", a 911 operator on behalf of the police dept.

That is a polite or formal way of saying "Stop following him". It's not an option.

raeann · Apr 12, 2012

songline said:
The white T-shirt intrigues me. Yes one witness did mention a white t-shirt.
BUT maybe Trayvon took off his hoodie, there has been no 3rd person sighting by anyone.
there was no mention of a 3rd person all along.
So while there is so much to think about, I hate to add more to the flames.

And how did he put the hoodie back on after he was dead??? The police report states it was on him.....or did GZ redress him while he was straddling him and pushing his back down after he was shot as seen by at least two of the witnesses????

Nova · Apr 12, 2012

Phoenixfla said:
Possibly not. However in my mind I can't visualize TM being on top of GZ if GZ has flashed a gun. In my opinion if TM see's GZ's gun he is getting out of there.

Or screams bloody murder! I think GZ had a gun in one hand and was holding onto TM with the other hand. And that's what the prolonged screaming was about: TM panicked and fought back and/or struggled to get free rather than surrendering at the sight of the gun.

17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

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