17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[Velouria]

You may or may not be saying that with sarcasm, but i think that is a possibility. I am putting no blame on the dispatcher but if they said "do not follow him!" It could have affected the outcome.

In order to believe it would have affected the outcome, you would have to disbelieve GZ's version of events.

He claims he was returning to his truck per the dispatcher's instructions but was attacked from behind by TM. So how could that have made a difference?

 

[gitana1]

As to the eye rolling mentioned in the last few pages; I wouldn't say that was truly an eye roll to me but thought it may be more from fatigue and lack of sleep. I think yesterday was a long stressful day for him and doubt he got much sleep last night as he had turned himself in before yesterday's PC then had the long drive back to Seminole Cty before the booking and processing procedures.

Right. I have done that when my eyes are very dry and feel stuck. Could be from allergies or lack of sleep.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Or screams bloody murder! I think GZ had a gun in one hand and was holding onto TM with the other hand. And that's what the prolonged screaming was about: TM panicked and fought back and/or struggled to get free rather than surrendering at the sight of the gun.

Another thing is... so Trayvon should run and take the chance of being shot in the back by this guy that has been following him? Who wouldn't try and wrestle the gun away from someone who had it pointed at you? Trayvon, IMO, was trying to not be shot and lost!

MOO

 

[jaded cat]

Matt Gutman ‏ @mattgutmanABC

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Zimmerman did not know he'd be arrested when he went to meet FL law enforcement offiicals yesterdar, per attorney. More on @ABCWorldNews

https://twitter.com/#!/mattgutmanABC

That confirms to me that he's not very smart. Not sure what he thought would happen. He needed a real lawyer, not a couple of TV *advertiser censored*. He needed real guidance as to what might happen and what he should be ready for.

I don't care about GZ other than I want this whole process to be done to the letter of the law. Right now, GZ has rights and they need to be protected. It's frustrating because now we know nothing will happen until late next month. The wheels of justice grind slowly sometimes.

 

[Etilema]

Or screams bloody murder! I think GZ had a gun in one hand and was holding onto TM with the other hand. And that's what the prolonged screaming was about: TM panicked and fought back and/or struggled to get free rather than surrendering at the sight of the gun.

Cos GZ sure as shootin' wasn't gonna let that @sshole get away.

JMO!

 

[octobermoon]

Just throwing this out there, If there is a gash, bruise, bump on GZ's head in that video, could it have come from getting into/out of the police car while handcuffed? IMO MOO JMO

NOT starting rumors, just wondering.

IMO JMO MOO

 

[mercuriod]

BBM

A dispatcher is not normally considered law-enforcement. They have not gone through POST certification, and they are not a sworn LEO. JMO

They are law-enforcement personnel though.

 

[LolaMoon08]

It also says that the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers, but I did not see that in the transcripts, nor do I remember hearing it. JMO

Usually when you are told "we don't need you to be doing that" and then a few seconds later the dispatcher is telling you that they have "officers on the way" it would pretty much mean the same thing? GZ said okay, so the dispatcher didn't feel the need to pressure the issue any further... I wish he had... but he clearly tells Zimmerman that officers are on the way when they feel he has stopped following Trayvon after replying "okay."

 

[Sensei]

In order to believe it would have affected the outcome, you would have to disbelieve GZ's version of events.

He claims he was returning to his truck per the dispatcher's instructions but was attacked from behind by TM. So how would that have made a difference?

It is George Zimmerman's version of events that convince me that there was just no Self Defense. I could possibly get to self defense if there was a lucid and beliveable story. Granted we have not heard the story from the horses mouth so to speak, but what we have is just not at all logical and it's all those pesky little details that get in the way.

Such as returning to his truck, when we can hear what time he gets out of the truck, and know that within 10 seconds he could have been back in the truck if he had followed the dispatchers (vague) suggestion to not follow, but somehow he ends up away from the truck and behind the buildings.

He was going for an address, even though Papa has pretty much put that one to bed, since he can show that if what RZ said is true that GZ went looking for an address before he was asked for one, and even after he should have had an exact address, he said he didn't know it.

Through his family he claims he was attacked from behind, and given a bloody broken nose...OK, anyone would have to see the illogic in that, so we have another update. Trayvon broke his nose with one sucker punch and then jumped on him.

He was screaming for help, but according to RZ, his broken bloody nose was bleeding copiously and he was swallowing his own blood, while screaming with Trayvons hands over his mouth....and pushing down on his broken nose and he was having trouble breathing....

Trayvon was slamming his head on the concrete,

It's all those bloody little details that just keep jumping out at me that have no explaination, such as a huge hematoma or some sort of something on the back of his head that was later enhanced, but it is not where your head would hit if you are laying down, but the crown of the head where you would have to be bounced on the top of your head by someone holding you by your feet.

No bandages for all these awful injuries, not so much as a winnie the pooh bandaid, no blood on shirt and LE officers handling what Taafe said was a bloody jacket with no gloves at all....

I can't get to self defense from there, I not only can't get there but I can't even see it from there. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[Aedrys]

I never stated it was an order, however he was advised/instructed by dispatch NOT to follow TM....As I see it, we'll just have to hopefully respectfully agree to disagree..JMHO

Here's the way I see it. A police officer stops me for speeding, but decides not to give me a ticket, and instead just warns me nicely that I shouldn't be speeding. Then I later get pulled over again for the same thing, speeding. Is it okay for me to use as an excuse that the previous police officer only nicely suggested I shouldn't speed? After all, it was up to me whether I speed or not. It is up to me if want to put people's lives at risk by going faster than the speed limit or obeying the speed limit and driving more safely. No, I don't think treating the officer's kind warning as a suggestion would get me out of a ticket. Common sense should have told me to obey the police officer and not speed in the first place to avoid consequences.

GZ choosing not to listen to the dispatcher meant that he put himself into a situation where there was going to be consequences for his actions. All he had to do was not follow Trayvon, but he went against common sense and did. The dispatcher's words being a suggestion does not absolve GZ of the actions that occurred afterwords. It's not okay to just ignore anyone telling you not to do something, especially people trying to protect you from getting hurt or becoming part of crime, which is what the dispatcher was doing by telling him he didn't need to do that, i.e., follow Trayvon.

 

[suspicious1]

Wasn't there a witness who said she called 911 because two men were arguing?

Didn't she say that sometime during her call she put her phone up to the window so that the operator could hear it?

I wonder if some of the argument was recorded and enhanced?

 

[Steft50]

And how did he put the hoodie back on after he was dead??? The police report states it was on him.....or did GZ redress him while he was straddling him and pushing his back down after he was shot as seen by at least two of the witnesses????

Could the white t-shirt be refering to the shirt GZ was wearing under his jacket?


imo

 

[LolaMoon08]

George Zimmerman may not have disobeyed a "direct order" from LE --- but he did disobey a "direct request" from LE.

It's common sense. LE was telling George NOT to follow Trayvon. I believe a jury, after what happened in the other FL case, will have a lot more common sense than the last jury.

MOO

 

[LambChop]

We will have to agree to disagree on that. I see a difference between "you dont have to do that" and "dont do that"
:

There is no difference because GZ acknowledged quite clearly he knew exactly what he was being told. Chief Lee said dispatchers have to now say that because of lawsuits. They can't order you to stay there, not to follow, etc. because if someone is told to stay right there and the suspect comes back and shoots them .....they have a lawsuit against the county. That is the only reason GZ was told they did not need him to follow. GZ was told to stay with his car to meet LE. GZ knew from his training how dangerous it is for LE not to know when someone has a gun. He was instructed to stay with his car for safety reasons, his, LE's, TM's and anyone who was out walking their dog at the time. GZ was reckless when he disregarded what he was told.

When an officer is hurt and cannot perform regular patrols they often go to dispatch. All dispatchers are employees of the police department and are more than qualified to handle police calls. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

Could the white t-shirt be refering to the shirt GZ was wearing under his jacket?


imo

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

[pcrum12]

I think since we have 2 accounts from witnesses. they both have merit because both accounts came from several people.

So I believe that GZ was on top of TM some of the time, but TM was on top of GZ some of the time too.
IS it possible that during the brawl both were on top of each other at different times, and both yelled for help at different times.
YES IT IS VERY POSSIBLE, more than likely probable.

Thank You!:rocker:

 

[Nova]

Is he still around? Good grief. How long has he been practicing in Florida?

Alan Dershowitz is a constitutional law professor at Harvard and has been since long before the Simpson trial.

 

[angeleleven]

here we go again......FT is on Jane Velez Mitchell......ugh!!!

 

[Sensei]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I have always thought that a medium to light grey shirt could be taken for white in the dark or low light....If that jacket is not zipped then anyone seeing him from the front would think light or white shirt IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[LolaMoon08]

here we go again......FT is on Jane Velez Mitchell......ugh!!!

I am soooo glad I will be leaving in a little while to go have drinks with good friends! Please keep me updated on what FT has to say now? I'm sure he made sure to study Baseball last night, as football is completely out of season.