NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #31

netsleuther said:

put simply, if biomum was not financial she could easily contact a legal aid lawyer and have made application with next to no cost at all.

An example of what happens would be the child would be placed on the Australian Federal Police website as a missing person and AB would be marked as a person of interest or as wanted, Interpol would also be made aware if a recovery or location order had been sought by biomum.

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Australia is a member of the Hague Convention. If Z was taken by her father and step mom unlawfully, there are governmental means of getting her back. I had a similar experience with a family member that took their kids to Ireland and got rid of their passports. Ireland was a member of the Hague - the State Department steps in as it is an international abduction. I'm making the assumption that the bio mom had custodial rights. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Info on Australia and Hague:
http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/Families_Children_Internationalchildabduction

Hi, Folks. I've followed this site since the first stages of the Haleigh Cummings case. Just thought it was time I came out of the woodwork.

impatientredhead said:

Cadaverine and Purtiscene are by produced by all animals in decomp, and putriscene even in live animals during times of infection, etc..

The dogs are trained to pick up on the unique combination of these two and several other components that make human decomposition unique. Cadavarine and Putriscene are the gases that humans can smell and are frequently referred to as the chemical the dogs are signally for, but they are components of the signature scent.

I think the bodyfarm links that were posted during the Caylee case indicated they had identified 360 different chemicals in human decomp and had narrowed it down to 40 or so that they were focusing on for the mechanical sniffers they are making (to be used in a very similar way to the dogs, and in areas where you don't want to take a dog).

There was alot of interesting information posted about the trainers and the use of the man made "cadaverine" scent to train the dogs, versus real human decomp scent.

Absolutely fascinating reads in my opinion.
If I was younger and knew what I know now I would definitely pursue working with and training search dogs, probably focused on cadaver dogs.

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Thank you for this interesting info ...... just a couple of questions

1 how long before the gases etc are released
2 do any of these chemicals appear in just blood as on the WC

Peliman said:

:innocent:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #16

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OT - It's Peliman's girlfriend! Just kidding.

Mountain_Kat said:

Hi, Folks. I've followed this site since the first stages of the Haleigh Cummings case. Just thought it was time I came out of the woodwork.

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:Welcome-12-june: Mountain_Kat. It's about time you found your voice.

Evening all. I think this is Zahra's Mum on Hinkey Meter.
It has always been my suspicion that AB and his Family took Zahra from NSW to QLD without her mother's knowlege. And that Zahra's mother was likey intimidated and abused by Adam. When I read the facebook comment that Zahra's mother had been looking for her for 5 years, that fit perfectly. The Bakers moved from Newcastle to Jiru in 2005.
Add to that, the fact that the very few statements we have from Karen Baker, are only in support of her Son. And I see a big old cover up here that has gone on for years. Do we have a Cindy Anthony in Karen Baker.
She had 3 Sons, she wanted that baby girl and she took her. She knows her Son is involved in Zahra's disappearance, if not, why was she so tight lipped from the very beginning of the investigation. Why have not her, her husband, any of the Baker's spoken out in support of Zahra or to plea for Justice for Zahra.
I do not think the fact that Zahra's Mum was catching up with them was the reason Zahra was killed. She had been abused for at least 12mths.

Mountain_Kat said:

Hi, Folks. I've followed this site since the first stages of the Haleigh Cummings case. Just thought it was time I came out of the woodwork.

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:Welcome-12-june:

Glad you joined us here Mountain Kat! Also welcome to OldAussie!

Regarding the passport approval for Zahra's passport, I can only go on personal experience. Many years ago I was what is called an unmarried mother, for personal and legal reasons I put on my sons birth certificate "father unknown" even though I knew who my sons father was but I also knew he did not want to acknowledge him or have anything to do with him back then. This presented problems when I went to obtain a passport for my son but because his fathers name was not on the birth certificate I only had to fill out forms and a Stat Dec to have it issued. It wasn't plain sailing but it was achievable.

In saying this, if the biomum's name was on Zahra's birth certificate, along with her biological father's name, the passport office would have required authentication from both parents for a passport to be issued in her name. I can't see any other way around it. I have not been able to find biomum's original post on HM explaining why she originally lost contact with Zahra and would appreciate if some kind soul would post a link for me on here if that is allowed, thanks.

What I'm trying to say is that in Australia it is not easy to obtain a passport for a child who does not have signatures and authority from both parents listed on the child's birth certificate. So I am wondering how Zahra's passport was issued legally.

I've been doing a lot of research on Australia 'move away' cases. Relocation law is difficult to navigate and, even though I did move my children to a foreign country, I am certainly not an attorney so I will preface this statement by stating it is my opinion based upon what we've learned so far and 'biomum's' statements on Hinky:

Assuming the custodial orders stated shared parenting responsibility (as claimed by 'biomum') and that relocation was NOT specifically addressed within the confines of that order AB would first have had to confer with 'biomum' regarding a potential move to attempt to come to an agreement.

If an agreement is unobtainable it is the onus of the parent wishing to relocate to apply to the court for a consent order. It would then be at a magistrate's discretion to either approve or deny a relocation dependent upon the child's best interests (please see family Law Act 1975, s 60cc). If a child is removed in breach of court order it then becomes the burden of the parent still residing 'in-country' to request a recovery order from the court. To me it is a moot point whether Zahra's mother was an active role or whether Zahra was withheld from her - most countries now have legislation in place to guard against parental abduction.

I fully believe AB had no legal authorisation (in way of court order) to remove Zahra from Australia.

*Please note, much like America, very heavy emphasis is afforded what is in the 'child's best interest' and this was reaffirmed in 2006 with ammendments made to the 1975 Family Law Act. It is possible AB would have been given permission to move...its also possible that 'biomum' would have been able to enforce her shared parenting - ultimately though it should have been left for a court to determine.*


http://203.38.58.101/data/portal/00000005/public/69069001156385082328.pdf
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/fle/chapter6.pdf
http://www.fmc.gov.au/pubs/docs/howard2008.pdf
http://www.familylawwebguide.com.au/attachment.php?id=379&keep_session=2508211
http://australiandivorce.blogspot.com/2010/03/relocation-principles.html
http://www.familylawcourts.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/FLC/Home/Children's+Matters/Relocation+and+travel/
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fla1975114/
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fla1975114/s60cc.html

Jacaranda said:

Regarding the passport approval for Zahra's passport, I can only go on personal experience. Many years ago I was what is called an unmarried mother, for personal and legal reasons I put on my sons birth certificate "father unknown" even though I knew who my sons father was but I also knew he did not want to acknowledge him or have anything to do with him back then. This presented problems when I went to obtain a passport for my son but because his fathers name was not on the birth certificate I only had to fill out forms and a Stat Dec to have it issued. It wasn't plain sailing but it was achievable.

In saying this, if the biomum's name was on Zahra's birth certificate, along with her biological father's name, the passport office would have required authentication from both parents for a passport to be issued in her name. I can't see any other way around it. I have not been able to find biomum's original post on HM explaining why she originally lost contact with Zahra and would appreciate if some kind soul would post a link for me on here if that is allowed, thanks.

What I'm trying to say is that in Australia it is not easy to obtain a passport for a child who does not have signatures and authority from both parents listed on the child's birth certificate. So I am wondering how Zahra's passport was issued legally.

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Hi jacaranda,
This is one link: http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/27/zahra-baker-case-why-is-the-mattress-important/

But 'biomum' goes into greater detail on this link: http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/28/zahra-baker-case-a-review-of-yesterdays-activities/

Nosee_Parker said:

Like you, I'm a little suspicious, bit in this instance I think it would be more beneficial to take the posts at face-value. For now, let's just accept it's 'Bio Mum'.

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I think Valhal cleared this up today. Someone started posting under the same name and Val changed it to biomum2 and added an explanation so there would not be confusion on who was talking

Jacaranda said:

Regarding the passport approval for Zahra's passport, I can only go on personal experience. Many years ago I was what is called an unmarried mother, for personal and legal reasons I put on my sons birth certificate "father unknown" even though I knew who my sons father was but I also knew he did not want to acknowledge him or have anything to do with him back then. This presented problems when I went to obtain a passport for my son but because his fathers name was not on the birth certificate I only had to fill out forms and a Stat Dec to have it issued. It wasn't plain sailing but it was achievable.

In saying this, if the biomum's name was on Zahra's birth certificate, along with her biological father's name, the passport office would have required authentication from both parents for a passport to be issued in her name. I can't see any other way around it. I have not been able to find biomum's original post on HM explaining why she originally lost contact with Zahra and would appreciate if some kind soul would post a link for me on here if that is allowed, thanks.

What I'm trying to say is that in Australia it is not easy to obtain a passport for a child who does not have signatures and authority from both parents listed on the child's birth certificate. So I am wondering how Zahra's passport was issued legally.

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Perhaps Elisa had fake ID and she signed the passport. It seems it would have been arranged while she was in Australia with Adam. I think in EB's rap sheet there is something about a fake driver's licence.
I'm just thinking out loud that maybe Elisa has these skills.

froginTtown said:

Hey.... Does Peliman have a slimmer twin on the thread... :floorlaugh:

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LOl cute Froggie my hair is shorter tho!
Maybe i should change mine i have had it for a while.

I wish these 2 ppl would just tell where they left Zahra. Its so sad!
I dont think she is at the house! JMO

OldAussie said:

Perhaps Elisa had fake ID and she signed the passport. It seems it would have been arranged while she was in Australia with Adam. I think in EB's rap sheet there is something about a fake driver's licence.
I'm just thinking out loud that maybe Elisa has these skills.

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Did they have to apply in person? I was under the assumption they submitted Zahra's application via post and simply signed 'biomum's' signature. :waitasec:

Thank you for the warm welcome, guys. I'm not shy (AT ALL!) by nature, but I ponder things much more than I openly discuss them. Right now, I'm fixated on the fire at the house, since, in my view, that's the jumping off point. I don't believe that fire was set as a distraction...it was deliberately set by either EB or AB. The only reason for that to have been done, prior to a missing child report, is to destroy evidence. Not a body, since temps wouldn't be hot enough to destroy that, but clothing, sheets, something. What I can't seem to get a handle on is who "disovered" the fire? Was it EB? Where was AB when the fire was discovered (according to him) ? Can anyone clarify this for me?

Wouldn't burning attract alot of attention? I would think there would be very heavy smoke, and a very distinctive odor.

Soulmagent said:

I wondered if her body was burnt and then put
in the chipper. Normal people would never think of doing something like this because normal people have empathy which also prevents them from abusing children. The way LE are dissectng the yard and the house and all the other search location does lead me to believe they do know what happened exactly and they are looking for evidence in trace amounts over a large area. They do not seem to be expecting to find a body. Burned clothing snaps from pants ,earings, metal fillings from teeth, remains of drug paraphernalia. IMO.








I havent heard the call. I just thought that if he brought Zahra into the county and she disapears it would be most peoples first thought that maybe the biomom had taken the child. If he was innocent and clueless isnt that a normal responce ,I thought it was a normal responce to trama to try and rationalize it.

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Mountain_Kat said:

Thank you for the warm welcome, guys. I'm not shy (AT ALL!) by nature, but I ponder things much more than I openly discuss them. Right now, I'm fixated on the fire at the house, since, in my view, that's the jumping off point. I don't believe that fire was set as a distraction...it was deliberately set by either EB or AB. The only reason for that to have been done, prior to a missing child report, is to destroy evidence. Not a body, since temps wouldn't be hot enough to destroy that, but clothing, sheets, something. What I can't seem to get a handle on is who "disovered" the fire? Was it EB? Where was AB when the fire was discovered (according to him) ? Can anyone clarify this for me?

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It seems to me that if the fire was set to destroy evidence it would have been allowed to burn much longer and not called in to the FD by EB. JMO.

netsleuther said:

I have shown the link of the pics of Z to KB and they are confirmed as pics of Z. In regards to biomum and her allegations, well that is a matter for her family and her lawyers if she truly believes AB forged any passport documents.

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How are you able to show the photos of Zarah to KB; are you a friend/relative?

ETA: Found the answer to my question here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5740868&postcount=286"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #31[/ame]

Nosee_Parker said:

I can Darnudes. Being a receiving parent of child support and understanding the sloppy system that operates here, they are more than happy just to process payments. It's my guess that 'Bio Mum' was obligated to be the 'paying parent' (Child Support Agency terminology) and CSA, due to strict privacy laws here, would not divulge where AB was. I can vouch for CSA being the most useless government body in Aus, they are hopeless.

'Bio Mum' would have her wages garnished if she was working, if she was in receipt of Centrelink income, they would deduct a portion of that as well. If she wanted information from CSA, too bad, they can't give it to her.

Fortunately for me, my ex-husband and I have banded together for the sake of our children and he contributes outside of the CSA environment (i.e. school fees, spending money given to my children etc.).

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Nosee,

Your comment appears to agree with what biomum has stated so far. While I am very grateful that biomum is communicating at my site and with me privately, I remain level headed that we are only hearing one side of the story. So I agree with many commenters here that we take her comments as such - it is HER side of an at least 2-sided story.

Concerning the passport issue. biomum has stated she contacted the government when she found out that Zahra had been taken out of the country and she was told they did NOT require her signature because the U.S. is considered an "affiliate country". This is what she said:

» biomum said: { Oct 28, 2010 - 06:10:04 }

"Our federal Privacy Act prevents he or I from gaining each others details, but (for example) if DFAT (dept of foreign affairs & trading) were to need to find me to give authourity for Zahra’s passport, then as a Gov agency they could access it. (as far as I have been made aware).

I was in contact with CSA earlier this week, and he has not breached their guidelines by going to the US, as the US is an “affiliate country”, or something along those lines. And as I was finding this out, they also made me aware that when they were made aware of her “disappearance”, they automatically put a hold on my payments as of the date she was reported missing."

Again, take it or leave it. I have not tried to verify that the information she states she was told is, indeed, the policy in Australia.

There is no way a backyard fire, even fueled by gasoline, would generate enough heat to burn a body completely in such a short amount of time, and firefighters would surely have noticed charred remains. But the thing I keep coming back to is this: why a fire at all? If you've commited a crime and you're trying to hide it, why draw neighbors attention via a fire and then call the fire department? The only answer I can come up with is that the fire HAD to be set to destroy evidence, and the fire department had to be called because to NOT call them would be even more suspicious in retrospect. I think EB, AB or more likely a combo of the two, "took care" of the bulk of the evidence a day or 2 prior to the fire, and then set the fire to destroy evidence of the clean up. Just MO.