Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

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I have a theory. Here's what I think and how I got there.

Fact: Very elaborate dental work with crowns and bridges. Crown on left front tooth, acrylic or porcelain. Fillings in most of upper teeth and has some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He is missing his wisdom teeth on the bottom in the back.

If he, our John Doe, had come from a well to do family it seems unlikely he teeth would have fallen into a state of disrepair or negletct to this extent to begin with. Yes some people just have the kind of teeth that go bad regardless of how well they are taken care of from the time they are youngsters, but mostly that isn't the case.

It seems more likely to me, our John, came into some money after he was a young adult.

Fact: 6'1/4" 155lbs. Think athletic, lithe in nature as in tennis or soccer.

Fact: two 2" scars on right arm (shoulder area). Think Arthroscopy surgery. Athelet again.

Fact: Bulova Accutron Yellow Gold watch. Not cheap. 14K gold ring engraved J.P.F. Our John Doe had to have some disposable cash. Not really over the top spending so it feels like he may have remembered what it was like when he didn't have a lot of money.

He had matches with him but no cigarettes. I think if he was a smoker he would have had those in a pocket too. It's not likely the killer would have taken his smokes and not his watch or ring. Non-smoker again think athletic.

If they came from another country and I think they did, they would have had to entered on a travel visa.

Wouldn't the INS have records of people that entered the country but didn't leave?

I'd be willing to spend some time on the visa thing but I wouldn't know the first place to start looking.

They say her legs were unshaven, but don't mention anything about her arm pits. He was clean shaven, so she wouldn't have been traveling without benifit of a razor because he obviously had a razor.

Where was that razor? If they were hitching cross country where did they leave their gear? Why again would the killer take their bed rolls and gear and leave the watch and rings? They had to have left their things at a camp site, a motel or a hostel???

I think they were Greek. I'm thinking the key is the travel visa. Although...now that I think about it again...

She had an unbleached muslin shirt over knit halther top cut off levis and sandles. They'd been eating fruit...Now I'm thinking I'm all wrong.

She could have been an 'earthy nature au'natural' type from the U.S.

LOL, I think I just came full circle and ate my own tail...

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/index.html
 
Origrammi said:
I have a theory. Here's what I think and how I got there.

Fact: Very elaborate dental work with crowns and bridges. Crown on left front tooth, acrylic or porcelain. Fillings in most of upper teeth and has some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He is missing his wisdom teeth on the bottom in the back.

If he, our John Doe, had come from a well to do family it seems unlikely he teeth would have fallen into a state of disrepair or negletct to this extent to begin with. Yes some people just have the kind of teeth that go bad regardless of how well they are taken care of from the time they are youngsters, but mostly that isn't the case.

It seems more likely to me, our John, came into some money after he was a young adult.

Fact: 6'1/4" 155lbs. Think athletic, lithe in nature as in tennis or soccer.

Fact: two 2" scars on right arm (shoulder area). Think Arthroscopy surgery. Athelet again.

Fact: Bulova Accutron Yellow Gold watch. Not cheap. 14K gold ring engraved J.P.F. Our John Doe had to have some disposable cash. Not really over the top spending so it feels like he may have remembered what it was like when he didn't have a lot of money.

He had matches with him but no cigarettes. I think if he was a smoker he would have had those in a pocket too. It's not likely the killer would have taken his smokes and not his watch or ring. Non-smoker again think athletic.

If they came from another country and I think they did, they would have had to entered on a travel visa.

Wouldn't the INS have records of people that entered the country but didn't leave?

I'd be willing to spend some time on the visa thing but I wouldn't know the first place to start looking.

They say her legs were unshaven, but don't mention anything about her arm pits.

He was clean shaven, so she wouldn't have been traveling without benifit of a razor because he obviously had a razor.

Where was that razor? If they were hitching cross country where did they leave their gear? Why again would the killer take their bed rolls and gear and leave the watch and rings? They had to have left their things at a camp site, a motel or a hostel???

I think they were Greek...... I'm thinking the key is the travel visa.

Although...now that I think about it again...

She had an unbleached muslin shirt over knit halther top cut off levis and sandles. They'd been eating fruit...Now I'm thinking I'm all wrong.

She could have been an 'earthy nature au'natural' type from the U.S.

LOL, I think I just came full circle and ate my own tail...

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/mystery_couple/index.html
Click to expand...

Origrammi...very good points....If they were Greek, they could have been from an important, wealthy family...I've read about the problems and missing persons in Greece during the 1970's....
They were definitely NOT hippies.
Quoting You:
Where was that razor? If they were hitching cross country where did they leave their gear?
Why again would the killer take their bed rolls and gear and leave the watch and rings?
They had to have left their things at a camp site, a motel or a hostel??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They had had a bath that day (Sunday) I believe they did have other things that was left.
My questions are, when and where did the killer have time to search the couple and take everything?
Why were they gently "placed" beside the road and possibly shot under the chin instead of in the head?
Why were they Left where they would easily/quickly be found?

It's been my opinion for sometime, the couple was staying at the KOA campground ..
Reason I think this, the couple was shot in that same general area.

I also believe the 'pool player' guy from the campground that came forward a year after the murders, knew a lot more about this couple than what was briefly said..
if anyone had cared enough to throughly question him....
did he have a record or associate with bad people?....did he know or have any involvement in or around the area with Lonnie Henry?

We know he could have furnished the camping records and vehicle license numbers and answered IF they had left their belongings there...IF the investigator had asked.

It's also my opinion, IF anyone was interested in solving this murder in '76
1. they would have looked at the camp ground registry.
2. pressured Lonnie Henry to tell who had his murder weapon that Sunday night or held him responsible for the murder. Put Henry in jail for driving drunk with a concealed murder weapon, a Felony, giving him time to 'talk'....instead LE or the DA strangely did nothing to this guy...Why?
3. Give his wife and who ever said he was at the hospital around midnight that Sunday a Lie Detector test.

Did anyone in LE or the DA's office ever want this case solved? or was there more to this murder than we can imagine?....:waitasec:
 
Mysterlover!

A wealthy Greek could have been spirited away before 1976 to escape trouble on the horizon...
I know this is spinning a horrible web, but you're right. It seems like this mystery should have been solved soon after the event. Why would anyone want to let this case go unsolved?

The murder weapon certainly came from somewhere prior to Henry getting hold if it, or who was Henry involved with on a local level?

Do we have more information on him?
 
Origrammi said:
Mysterlover!

A wealthy Greek could have been spirited away before 1976 to escape trouble on the horizon...
I know this is spinning a horrible web, but you're right. It seems like this mystery should have been solved soon after the event. Why would anyone want to let this case go unsolved?

The murder weapon certainly came from somewhere prior to Henry getting hold if it, or who was Henry involved with on a local level?

Do we have more information on him?.....
Click to expand...

Origrammi, The murder weapon belonged to Lonnie Henry..The pistol had been given to Lonnie by his brother 4 years before the murders...
The wording of the 'guns' past has been deliberately made confusing, imo...

Before Lonnie's brother got the gun it had been stolen. How Lonnie's brother acquired the stolen gun was never explained.
But the gun's past before Lonnies brother got the gun really doesn't relate to these murders at all, and yet someone made a point of always saying the gun was stolen....(yes it was a stolen gun, BEFORE Lonnie was given it ...)

In fact, Lonnie Henry had been given the gun 4 years before the murders, as a 1972 Christmas gift from his brother...

Lonnie had this murder weapon in his possession 4 months (Dec.) after the brutal murders, while driving drunk and admitted to filing the serial numbers OFF his .357 pistol, the murder weapon.
IMO, He had to know who had his .357 pistol that Sunday night as the person gave it back to him or HE committed these brutal murders himself....

It's my opinion, he needed money for his wife's hospital bill......:cautionDrunk:
 
Were commune's still around in the mid 70's? Could Jock and Jane doe have met at a commune and left together at one point? I know that when the Manson family spilt up a few of the not well know members left together. I'm sorry if this theory has been explored already.
 
Nyla4 said:
Were commune's still around in the mid 70's? Could Jock and Jane doe have met at a commune and left together at one point? I know that when the Manson family spilt up a few of the not well know members left together. I'm sorry if this theory has been explored already.
Click to expand...

That's a good thought. I can't recall offhand if that theory has been brought up here before or not. Yes, there were still many communes in the 70s. Remembering back, I think they were slightly more prevalent in the 70s than 60s, then pretty much phased out after that. They still exist, but I would classify the 70s as the heydey of communes. That is a very real possibility that they could have met one another at a commune. There were lots of them back then in the US and Canada.
 
creativeamanda said:
This is my first post here. Last night I was directed over here to read on the Caylee Anthony case and this caught my eye. I read everything for hours. I can't imagine how something could have happened so close to my home and it not be something I have ever heard of. One thing is for certain, this couple has haunted me.

I know a little about the racing circuit from that time period as my grandfather (deceased) was a racing hopeful. Drugs were involved with racing. Runs were made with racing cars to various parts of the US (think Dukes of Hazzard). He and my mother (also deceased) traveled from the Midlands of SC to Darlington often. I wonder how connected this couple was to the racing circuit. Or maybe, just maybe, they were just around to go to Myrtle Beach for the bicentennial?

Either way, I agree that these two are probably related. I also have a concern about the owner of the gun. He lived in the area I currently live in.

Honestly, this area is full of the "good old boy" nature and it is quite possible that it was known he killed these people, but covered it all up.

It is not unusual for anyone to have guns and attempt to hide ownership of them--these people are really afraid their guns will be taken from them.

These are just my observations from living in this area......
Click to expand...

Creativea...very good observations!...
 
I'm new to this case, but I must say, these two have really captivated me. Really want to know who they are. I haven't yet read everything, but have some observations of my own to make.

I'm thinking they're related, their nasal structure is very similar as are the lips and the distance between their eyes. This latter, I find highly unusual. Their eyes are quite widely spaced apart. Makes me wonder if they could be of mixed races.

The very first inclination I had was that they were Italian. Something about the drawing of the woman made me think of Sophia Loren. Then again, that was just a drawing. I have seen other drawings of these people, but now don't know where to find them.

About where they were found...It seems to me that whoever killed them wasn't all that concerned about being caught, hence, found laying right beside the road. The three shots each almost seems like overkill.
It appears like the killer may have wanted someone to recognize them, maybe to scare someone, keep them from talking about something. Could be the reason why these people weren't shot in the face.

Read back a little on this case. Some posters were saying the couple was killed in haste, hence why they still had their jewelry. That doesn't take into account the fact that their IDs were gone, wallets, gone, her purse.

I wonder if someone wasn't acting out something from the movie, "The Godfather?" This could've been a thrill kill. I also think they could've seen something they shouldn't have, and were taken out. Just something about it makes me think they were killed by someone/s impressed with the Godfather movie.
 
This is a longshot, but has anyone considered consulting a psychic detective to work on this case?
 
Just did a search for Grant's Truck Stop, and someone is selling a Dave Grant's Truckstop match book cover from Lupton on ebay in case anyone is interested. Bid expires on the 19th of January.
 
I'd love to, elliottness. I think in the very least it could confirm or deny some of our theories.

I don't have the money, but I know a lot of them work for free. Brian's Dreams is a pretty good one, but my concern is that it could take him upwards of 26 weeks to get to our case. Also, I've never seen him do a UID before.

If anyone has any information on other free psychic detectives, please share.
 
justthinkin said:
Not much to go on other than the visual, but this guy sure looks like he could be the male half of the missing couple.
Strong resemblance, hair part in the right place.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=16629...........
Click to expand...

Justthinkin, Yes, a very, very strong resemblance to the young male...notice the hair, heavy eyebrows and lips.

Quote: 1974 Turkish invasion
Achilleos,Argyros Achilleas July 22,1974, Cyprus... 22 years old

Year of birth: 1952
Place of origin: Pano Dheftera
Marital status: Single
Military status: Reservist
Place of arr./disapp.: Ayios Georghios-Temblos
Date of arr./disapp.: 22.7.74
Place last seen: Ayios Georghios-Temblos

http://www.missing-cy.org/

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)
 
Mysterylover, thanks for confirming my thoughts. With that, I sent an email to the organization in Greece with a link to the thread on graphic photos here. Guess we'll see if that turns up anything. Probably doubtful. It's certainly worth a try.
 
I found a vintage ring very similar to the one Jane Doe was wearing.
http://www.eaglerocktradingpost.com/331k.htm
The ring pictured isn't expensive, and appears to be a better ring. The feathering isn't as crude as on the one she was wearing.

I found a Navajo ring similar in construction to the slender & elongated ring Jane Doe wore. Also at eaglerocktradingpost.com

I haven't found anything close to the third ring she wore, the one with the 3 concave spaces, filled with something that looks to me like a chalky blue clay. Around the Malibu area of CA, there is blue clay in the soil, but I couldn't find a picture. Blue clay appears in soils in the US and UK, and others I'm sure. It comes in different shades of blue, some bright, some soft, some light, others dark.

Her jewelry was inexpensive. If Jacques? tried to sell the ring he was wearing, it's possible he stole it and the watch too. It's also possible he needed money so I have my doubts this was a well to do couple.

I'm wondering about the brand of shoes she was wearing--Stride Rights. Don't they just make children's shoes? I don't think I've ever seen Stride Rights for adult women.
 
Stride Right used to make adult shoes under the Stride Right brand. Especially in the 70s, they were making lots of "outdoorsy" sorts of shoes.
 
justthinkin said:
I found a vintage ring very similar to the one Jane Doe was wearing.
http://www.eaglerocktradingpost.com/331k.htm
The ring pictured isn't expensive, and appears to be a better ring. The feathering isn't as crude as on the one she was wearing.

I found a Navajo ring similar in construction to the slender & elongated ring Jane Doe wore. Also at eaglerocktradingpost.com

I haven't found anything close to the third ring she wore, the one with the 3 concave spaces, filled with something that looks to me like a chalky blue clay. Around the Malibu area of CA, there is blue clay in the soil, but I couldn't find a picture. Blue clay appears in soils in the US and UK, and others I'm sure. It comes in different shades of blue, some bright, some soft, some light, others dark.

Her jewelry was inexpensive.

If Jacques? tried to sell the ring he was wearing, it's possible he stole it and the watch too. It's also possible he needed money so I have my doubts this was a well to do couple.

I'm wondering about the brand of shoes she was wearing--Stride Rights. Don't they just make children's shoes? I don't think I've ever seen Stride Rights for adult women......
Click to expand...

Justthinking...I don't have the time to find the article I read last year, but in this article it said, the KOA guy that was shooting pool with this young male, ADMIRED the ring the young man was wearing and the young male responding to the admiring comment, said thanks, you want to buy it?

From the article I read, the young man was NOT going around trying to sell
his ring, like some people assumed, or read in other articles,
But only offered to sell it to the pool player, AFTER he admired the ring.

I still feel the KOA 'pool player' knew a lot more about this couple, as the couple stayed there twice that summer, but he wasn't questioned enough by the investigator...
 
Mysterylover said:
Justthinking...I don't have the time to find the article I read last year, but in this article it said, the KOA guy that was shooting pool with this young male, ADMIRED the ring the young man was wearing and the young male responding to the admiring comment, said thanks, you want to buy it?

From the article I read, the young man was NOT going around trying to sell
his ring, like some people assumed, or read in other articles,
But only offered to sell it to the pool player, AFTER he admired the ring.

I still feel the KOA 'pool player' knew a lot more about this couple, as the couple stayed there twice that summer, but he wasn't questioned enough by the investigator...
Click to expand...

Mysterylover, I totally agree with you about the KOA guy. I see so many gaps, like, didn't he know her name? And accents! Did either speak with an accent? I don't recall every seeing that info anywhere, so please do correct me if I have missed it.
 
kitbits said:
Mysterylover, I totally agree with you about the KOA guy.
I see so many gaps, like, didn't he know her name? And accents!

Did either speak with an accent?
I don't recall every seeing that info anywhere, so please do correct me if I have missed it....
Click to expand...

Kitbits..Excellent questions...Huge gaps in this sad case!
 
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