Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

[justthinkin]

If you look at the morgue photos on that thread, those moles don't show up all that well when she has no make-up on. It's obvious someone colored them in with a brow pencil, to treat them like beauty marks. Must have been a creative bunch down there. They should have just closed the eyes and mouth, and left her natural, no make-up or just base to smooth out the skin tones. Go applying make-up and hair styles to a deceased with no family input, and it becomes highly subjective.

I find similar discrepancies on the male UID.

 

[justthinkin]

The shirt the deceased was wearing was from the 1975 races I thought. I'll have to recheck. There's something else I want to check on too.
BBL

 

[Mysterylover]

The shirt the deceased was wearing was from the 1975 races I thought. I'll have to recheck. There's something else I want to check on too.
BBL

justthinkin...You are correct...The t-shirt was from the 1975 races, and I believe I read it was red..

my questions are:
1. did they come down for the 1975 races and stay in the same KOA, getting to know the same people, thus staying there in 1976 ?

2. Did they stay in the Florida - S.C. area for a year or more?

3. Did Jacque buy the 1975 t-shirt at the 1975 or 1976 race?...:Bicicleta:

 

[laini]

I think this person is another possibility to match Jacques? Doe.

http://www.sacp.ca/missing/details.php?id=93

Wow!! I think you may have found him! The eyebrows, facial features, everything! Good job!

 

[Venom Goose]

I live 45 minutes away from Regina. I'll take a look on Facebook and see if there's any people who could be related to him, and I'll show them this thread..

 

[Venom Goose]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/827dfca.html

Lynn Ruth Connes
Missing since May 20, 1976 from Berkeley, Alameda County, California
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: June 21, 1955
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 20 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4; 110 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; green eyes.
* Marks, Scars: Scar on her lower lip. Freckles.
* Clothing: A black shirt, black bellbottom pants, and a tan scarf.
* Jewelry: A silver ring with an etched design.
* Dentals: Available.

~~~~~
This one I doubt but the stats match and IMO they look a lot alike

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1194dfco.html

Denise Lynn Oliverson
Missing since April 6, 1975 from Grand Junction, Mesa, Colorado.
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: August 10, 1950
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 25 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4"; 105 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.
* Marks, Scars: Acne, lump on back of right hand.
* Clothing: Levi pants, green long sleeved Indian print blouse.
* Dentals: Available

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/886dmfl.html

James Berkeley Norris II
Missing since October 4, 1974 from Miami or Inglis, Florida
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: November 19, 1949
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 24 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 6'0", 165 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Hispanic/White male. Dark brown, collar length hair; hazel eyes. He has broad shoulders, is muscular and lean.
* Marks, Scars: Small scar in the middle of his upper lip, directly under the nose.
* Dentals: Not available
* Fingerprints/DNA: Available

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/797dmga.html

Kyle Wade Clinkscales
Missing since January 27, 1976 from LaGrange, Troup County, Georgia.
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: October 2, 1953
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 23 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'11"; 155 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Hazel eyes; brown hair.
* Marks, Scars: Previous fracture to ring finger. He may have a mustache.
* Dentals: Available.
* Clothing: Denim jacket (possibly suede), multi-colored blue shirt white tie and denim pants.
* Vehicle: 2-door, white 1974 Pinto Runabout with GA Licence number CEF-717.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Clinkscales was last seen at the "Moose Club" in LaGrange, GA, where he worked as a bartender. He left the club to return to Auburn University but never arrived.
His vehicle is also missing and is described as a 2-door, white 1974 Pinto Runabout with GA Licence number CEF-717.
On April 13, 2005, a LaGrange, Georgia man was charged in connection with the disappearance of Kyle Clinkscales. A witness said that the suspect was at the property of an auto salvage owner who owned property nearby, and helped him move Clinkscales' body. The suspect confessed to helping move the body, but didn't confess to killing the Clinkscales.
Investigators think the suspects might have buried a 55-gallon drum with Clinkscales inside. Investigators also dug on the suspect's property in 1996, but found nothing.

~~~~~
Looks a lot like Jane Doe
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2704dfla.html

Sallie Margaret Reed
Missing since February 19, 1976 from Thibodaux, Lafourche Parish, Louisiana
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: October 19, 1953
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 22 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 110 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
* Dentals: Not available.

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1851dfma.html

Susan Labbe
Missing since August 7, 1974 from Lawrence, Essex County, Massachusetts
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: October 3, 1956
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 17 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5"; 120 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; green eyes.
* Clothing: White blouse, blue dungarees, black suede handbag.
* Dentals: Available
* Fingerprints: Not Available
* AKA: Rhonda

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2452dfmt.html

Nancy Lynn Kirkpatrick
Missing since April 21, 1976 from Columbia Falls, Flathead County, Montana
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: January 25, 1960
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'1"-5'2"; 90-96 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
* Marks, Scars: Scars on her right shoulder and beneath her arm, between elbow and shoulder.

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3832dmnc.html

Steven Lewis Arrowood
Missing since April 3 or 4, 1975 from Gastonia, North Carolina
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: June 26, 1956
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 18 years old
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blond hair; blue eyes.
* Marks, Scars: A small scar under his chin.
* AKA: Steve

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1531dmok.html

Alan Wayne Soper
Missing since 1974 from Tulsa, Oklahoma
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: April 27, 1952
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 22 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'11"; 160 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; blue eyes.
* Dentals: Not Available
* Other: DNA available

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2578dfvt.html

Iris Leslie Brown
Missing since March 15, 1976 from Burlington, Vermont
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: August 26, 1948
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 27 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4"; 127 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Dark brown hair; hazel eyes.
* Clothing: A long green wool coat and blue jeans.

~~~~~

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1422dmwy.html

Larry Marvin Morris
Missing since April 27, 1974 from Riverton, Fremont County, Wyoming
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: August 18, 1949
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 24 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'11"; 155 lbs.
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Dark brown hair; brown eyes.
* Dentals: Available

 

[elliottness]

Call me crazy, but my hunch tells me that "Jacques"'s father was a dentist. I also suspect that JPF are actually his initials.

 

[Mysterylover]

Call me crazy, but my hunch tells me that "Jacques"'s father was a dentist. I also suspect that JPF are actually his initials.

elliottness...I agree, Jacques was his name and the initials JPF was his..
IF only we could find where he was from.
I suspect he was french canadian?

With Jacques excellent dental work, if his father was a Dentist and disowned him, WHY didn't his mother look for him?

If I remember correctly, the coroner said the couple was very clean, had bathed that day, was not on drugs and did not drink or smoke.
That leads me to think they were a very nice couple and not trouble makers.
I can't understand, how these 2 beautiful people can be unclaimed and lost for 30 years!!:gold_star::gold_star:

 

[Mysterylover]

I'd read the Batson fellow is deceased. Anyone find an obituary for him? phenolred posted that his wife's name was Janie.
I'd like to know more about these people.

justthinkin: I agree, we need to know more about these people. I suspect they hold the key to solving this couples identity.

IF this case is 'still active' it would be interesting for the SBI to talk to Janie, and show her the couple's pictures.
If this case is closed, shouldn't we be able to see the files and coroners report.?...:Justice:

 

[Mysterylover]

Mystery, the son took off in 1973. He may have been driving at least a three year old car. A top end Mustang? I'm sure if the dealer was his uncle, he likely cut him a deal. I wish the Regina LE provided more info other than "last seen in Regina." Were the son and father estranged? Did the son have some sort of mental problems?

I can't find a female who fits the description missing from Saskatchewan. If this was an outdoorsy type guy maybe he met her in a campground or park. I'm assuming too much, I think. Just need to wait to see what Regina LE has to say about all this.

I'd have thought if this young man came from a well-heeled family, there would be more effort put into the search. Can't find a single newspaper article on his disappearance. It's frustrating.

justthinkin: I'm leaning toward the opinion the couple was murdered for their 'Vehicle'..
It would be interesting to know IF Batson or Henry/or his Son, sold or traded or salvaged a vehicle after August l976!

 

[justthinkin]

Wow!! I think you may have found him! The eyebrows, facial features, everything! Good job!

Thanks! Won't know until I hear back.

Now, with that said, I was off in another direction today, and I think I may really have the answer to who Jock is thanks to prior contributions from others on this case.

 

[elliottness]

elliottness...I agree, Jacques was his name and the initials JPF was his..
IF only we could find where he was from.
I suspect he was french canadian?

With Jacques excellent dental work, if his father was a Dentist and disowned him, WHY didn't his mother look for him?

If I remember correctly, the coroner said the couple was very clean, had bathed that day, was not on drugs and did not drink or smoke.
That leads me to think they were a very nice couple and not trouble makers.
I can't understand, how these 2 beautiful people can be unclaimed and lost for 30 years!!:gold_star::gold_star:

What I don't understand is why no one has came out to look for Jane Doe. Assuming these two weren't related, you'd have to think that her parents or family would be wondering where she is, right? This is why I don't think they were American because there would have been more news about this and someone from their families would have came out by now to look for them.

 

[elliottness]

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Jacques

Maybe we've been misspelling this guy's name all along.

 

[elliottness]

Everyone, please check out this link below:

http://www.msubillings.edu/foundation/Engaged/Engaged Winter 05.pdf

Page 4 of this PDF has an article on a Dr. Self who taught at MSU (Montana State University) from 1967 to 1990. He later did work as a psychologist at the Indian Health Board and continued until his death in early December 2004.

The article also mentions that he had a son, Jock, who went with him to visit the MSU-Billings Foundation.

 

[justthinkin]

elliott,

I think you were on the right track when you brought up Dr. Fortier. He and Jacques Doe look remarkably alike. I just learned something today from another forum that backs up my opinion.

We should not even be looking for possible matches based on the post autopsy photos, but should be looking at the before photos only. Once the faces have been removed, and stretched back over the skull, the features are distorted so we need to forego looking at the pictures that have had make up applied and hair styled, and were taken on the morgue table. Perhaps you knew this, but I did not, and I'm sure there are others that didn't know to do that either.

I haven't even been working on this case that long, but the photos and too numerous sketches both good and poor have bugged me as much as the Anthony family. I feel the photos and sketches are part of why these people haven't been identified. Too many nationalities have been suggested, and somehow we've got to narrow the field down.

Today I was on my last nerve, and so wrote to a famous forensic artist, and all but begged for his opinion of the photos and the police sketches. He may not give me the time of day, but it's worth a try.

 

[elliottness]

Okay. I saw a couple of photographs from Dr. Claude Fortier on the web. You're right. There is more than a slight resemblance. Does anyone know if there is a biography on Dr. Fortier? I've looked all over the web for information about his family and have found nothing. Maybe we should try the geneology sites and track down Fortier's family tree.

Call me crazy, but my hunch tells me that our John Doe's name is likely to be Jacques-Philippe Fortier or Jacques-Pierre Fortier or something similar to that. I'm guessing here, but I'm willing to bet that there is a hyphen in his name which is not uncommon for Canadians. Plus, the name Jacques is rarely used in the United States so I'm 100% positive this guy was not American.

 

[justthinkin]

I've already looked at the Fortier family forum on genforum. Checked Family Search, and Rootsweb World Connect. Nothing, zip, nada.

I tried to trace the woman who did the sketch of Fortier through the museum, looked her name up on Google, and that returned little. She's tied in to their medical board in some way as she does the sketches for all the important doctors.

The museum in Montreal had a number of pages that consisted of school photos ranging from middle school to college level, and appeared to be tracing Fortier children of unknown parentage, meaning I don't know who the parents are, were. There's some famous Quebec soldier named Fortier. I found a Jacques Fortier among the school photos, but he didn't bear a resemblance to the UID. The college photo sheets were too small to read any names.

Of all silliness, the forensic artist I contacted was the one who did the enhancement of the death photos after the mortuary messed them up. He also did a sketch on the female, not sure if he did the really nice one on Jacques. Probably he did.
It is, according to his website, believed the female is from the Middle East. I doubt that. If that girl had grown up in the Middle East, even in Turkey, I don't think she'd wear shorts that short. She could be of Middle Eastern extraction, but have lived in Michigan or New Jersey or CA for that matter. Who knows, maybe her family disowned her for wearing short shorts.

I'll send someone I know a couple of her sketches, and see if he can possibly identify a country. He just spent 6000 miles on a bicycle trip through US, Europe-- Greece, Turkey, Georgia, and Azerbaijan.

As far as I'm concerned on Fortier, he looks more like the UID than any possible matches anyone has come up with. His is the first face in which I've been able to see something of each photo or sketch.

ANYONE HERE ON WS from Montreal or anywhere in Quebec? If so, we've got a small job for you! heh heh

 

[Mysterylover]

Everyone, please check out this link below:

http://www.msubillings.edu/foundation/Engaged/Engaged Winter 05.pdf

Page 4 of this PDF has an article on a Dr. Self who taught at MSU (Montana State University) from 1967 to 1990. He later did work as a psychologist at the Indian Health Board and continued until his death in early December 2004.

The article also mentions that he had a son, Jock, who went with him to visit the MSU-Billings Foundation.

elliottness: Good work!
IF only we could find out from someone on the MSU-Billings Foundation board, if Dr. Self's son, Jock, ever disappeared or was alive after 1976...:read:

 

[elliottness]

http://www.cdnmedhall.org/laureates/?laur_id=34

The link above has a photograph of Dr. Claude Fortier. I looked at it again and compared it with "Jock" and there IS a resemblance between the two of them. I don't have access right now, but maybe one of our users could contact someone in Canada and ask for information on Dr. Fortier. There isn't a whole lot on the web that I can see.

 

[elliottness]

http://genforum.genealogy.com/fortier/

I found this on the web. Maybe someone related to "Jacques" or "Jane Doe" is looking for them.