Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

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SuziQ said:
Anthony? No, I think fran mistakenly thought the Bootleggers in Anthony's case was the same Bootleggers in Tommy's case. They are in two different states, not connected.
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Hi SuziQ!

I'm sorry I didn't have time to post in more detail and with a link yesterday, but I had company from out of town and had to leave.

Actually, I KNEW it was a different Bootleggers. My question is, 'who owns Bootleggers?' Also, 'Who performs at Bootleggers?' Also, 'Who services the equipment at Bootleggers?' Although not all the students and victims were at a Bootleggers, I noticed that Bootleggers has venues in a number of these states involved in this case. (Google is your friend) :)


I've been reviewing the list of suspect victims. It appears at first they were concentrated in just a handful of states. However, that soon mushroomed. This year it appears to have gone out of control. Now, I don't know if they're all related to each other, but are they related as far as motive? There are also some on the same days, which points more in the direction that there's more than one person or people doing this. I also saw a list, sorry no link, of students that had died on campus and off from drinking. Now most of these students were not on the victim list, (two were), and had explanations on how and why the students died, ie car accident (dui), falling off roof (hi BAL), balcony and such, AND just plain drinking too much.

The problem with these alleged victims are they disappeared, and then some show up dead and, or drowned. BUT, they mysteriously disappeared! I can see this happening occasionally, but a 100 times!? NO WAY! Maybe even 20 times or so over a course of 10 or more years. But a 100?! Again, I think it's almost impossible that MANY of these aren't connected to at least a number of others.

JMHO
fran

PS.....Look at the dates and locations of the disappearances and drownings, the frequency in one area (during the individual school years) and then spreading, the repeating cities and circumstances, and the words 'spree killer.'

OMINOUS, imo, fran :(
 
SuziQ said:
As far as I know, what's on the autopsy is what the test came back as.

Blink and SS and some others have reasearched this more than I have.

Nurse is, well a nurse and she can probably weigh in here. Where is that bedside nurse pager when you need it. lol.
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Suz- I maybe having a brain freeze, but I do not believe BAC or BAL raises in death. I believe perhaps you may have been referring to our research on Mike's case. Hypothermia, which can be associated with some of these case, may increase the BAC/BAL while alive from a vascular perspective,
meaning because of the vascular constriction occuring due to the hypo, but once the body temp remained normal, the result would be accurate and conclusive. In death following hypothermia, same result, due to again no longer vascular constriction.

In my research, there is no difference in what a BAL or BAC would test at autopsy, vs. death. The reading of BAL for urine, is a little different and the ratios pursuant to the Blood BAL should be contrued. All of this is provided the samples mentioned are available from the body.
 
hey guys just letting you know i posted this on a truckers forum.a hvac forum deleted my thread.

It seems to me someone that is familiar with many of the cities that have Trane corporation facilities would be familiar with many cities where there were young men who disappeared and later found drowned.for example

LaCrosse Wisconsin-Trane factory

ST Paul minnesota-Trane factory

Cinncinati

Columbus

in addition taking route 41 you could go through

Terra Haute (possible victim here

Evanville Indiana(Trane factory here)

Clarksville tennessee(Trane factory here) (possible victim here)I took a picture of smiley face here


Recently investigators are saying 'smiley face killers' are drowning young men across the country.They have said they have linked killings in 5 states.
(correct me if i am wrong on this)


Pennsylvania
ohio
Wisconsin
Iowa
minnesota

They also found nearly 94 percent of the drownings took place within 100 miles of I-94. Nearly 82 percent of the drownings occurred during the first two weeks of the month, and three-quarters of the disappearance occurred when the moon was less than half-full.

all of the the place i mentioned with trane facilities would also have training for HVAC technicians to update their skills and it is not unusal for them to take several classes.

could there possibly be a connection of the drownings of young men with trane corporation?

truck driver?
hvac technician?
someone in sales?
 
Ethan, I have been holding back on addressing your post regarding possible TRANE techs. I am open to any opinions form any sleuther, and happy to contribute mine as well; exactly what this forum is designed for.
As you mentioned, your post was removed from another site, that doesnt happen for no reason.

I've reviwed your posts, and it seems you have pointed a finger at Trane Corp. in almost every one of them and that concerns me.

Considering, that I am aware of, that connection has nothing to do with any aspect of these cases anywhere. I have no affiliation with Trane, or any other HVAC company whatsoever, but if I did, I would ask you to consider that making an allegation against an entire corporation or parts of it's staff like that may be construed as a form of personal or corporate attack on them and I would prefer to keep the focus on the cases and hopefully contributing to solving them.
 
I made no accusations or allegations.In fact i am open to many possibilities.,so your stastements are misleading and an insult..The comments i have made in theories prove that this is the case.i believe some things can just be coincidences and i said so.i am not acusing anyone of anything except you.
 
this is what i said
could there possibly be a connection of the drownings of young men with trane corporation?
 
Ethann said:
this is what i said
could there possibly be a connection of the drownings of young men with trane corporation?
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Ethan, I reviewed your posts and I am standing by mine.

Your intial and frequent reference to the Trane/HVAC issue is from an opinion based, rhetorical blog which draws no references or fact to the "Trane" theory-

For all WS'rs here is a link to same blog Ethan referenced, prepare to be radically offended by today's post on Mother's Day:

http://bobstruth.blogspot.com/

Not making any judgement, but for me, anyone quoting that trash as a reference is not an opinion I am going to consider.
That being said, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this and get back to topic.
 
Blink34 said:
Suz- I maybe having a brain freeze, but I do not believe BAC or BAL raises in death. I believe perhaps you may have been referring to our research on Mike's case. Hypothermia, which can be associated with some of these case, may increase the BAC/BAL while alive from a vascular perspective,
meaning because of the vascular constriction occuring due to the hypo, but once the body temp remained normal, the result would be accurate and conclusive. In death following hypothermia, same result, due to again no longer vascular constriction.

In my research, there is no difference in what a BAL or BAC would test at autopsy, vs. death. The reading of BAL for urine, is a little different and the ratios pursuant to the Blood BAL should be contrued. All of this is provided the samples mentioned are available from the body.
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Thanks for weighing in! I know you have done much more research on the issue. Now I need to go back and find why I know what I know. Which appears to be incorrect. Basically my understanding is because a dead body ferments fluids it increases the Alcohol reading. However, I know you and SS provided links before in Mike's thread. Can you post some my way? I think it's time I educate myself a little more since the BAC seems to be an issue with LE in these cases. Thanks!
 
Postmortem BAC determination:

A similar problem arises when a BAC determination must be made after death (25). The interpretation of alcohol in post mortem specimens is complicated by the presence of alcohol produced by microbial fermentation. This problem is minimized by analysis of the vitreous humor, the liquid that fills the eyeball behind the lens. Because this liquid is reasonably protected from microbial activity and remains relatively constant after death, the alcohol concentration in vitreous humor is used commonly to confirm post mortem BAC determinations (26).
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http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa25.htm
 
fran said:
Hi SuziQ!

I'm sorry I didn't have time to post in more detail and with a link yesterday, but I had company from out of town and had to leave.

Actually, I KNEW it was a different Bootleggers. My question is, 'who owns Bootleggers?' Also, 'Who performs at Bootleggers?' Also, 'Who services the equipment at Bootleggers?' Although not all the students and victims were at a Bootleggers, I noticed that Bootleggers has venues in a number of these states involved in this case. (Google is your friend) :)
Click to expand...

Oh ok, I get what you are saying. Good thought.
 
SuziQ said:
Thanks for weighing in! I know you have done much more research on the issue. Now I need to go back and find why I know what I know. Which appears to be incorrect. Basically my understanding is because a dead body ferments fluids it increases the Alcohold reading. However, I know you and SS provided links before in Mike's thread. Can you post some my way? I think it's time I educate myself a little more since the BAC seems to be an issue with LE in these cases. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I will when I'm on again, of course, SuzQ
I believe you are correct that someone posted that, but in terms of BAL and BAC levels, due to the ethanol and other extraction during the testing process, you can seperate the two. For now:

When human blood decomposes, naturally occurring microbes can change the sugars in the blood into alcohol. This is the same type of fermentation that occurs in the manufacture of beverage alcohol. It is possible for the state police laboratory to detect whether this has occurred by analyzing the level of glucose in the subject sample, or to examine the ratio of ethanol to carbon dioxide in the headspace gas. When human blood decomposes, naturally occurring microbes can change the sugars in the blood into alcohol. This is the same type of fermentation that occurs in the manufacture of beverage alcohol. It is possible for the state police laboratory to detect whether this has occurred by analyzing the level of glucose in the subject sample, or to examine the ratio of ethanol to carbon dioxide in the headspace gas.

This is not done in Michigan. We may wish to check what states do this for autopsy??
 
Blink34 said:
This is not done in Michigan. We may wish to check what states do this for autopsy??
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Lol, we were both correct. You more so than me. That's my question too. Which states to the procedure that most accurately determines BAC or BAL?
 
shadowraiths said:
Postmortem BAC determination:



http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa25.htm
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This is true, SR, but in the event that extraction is not possible (trying to be careful about wording). They extract the properties of a blood sample and measure keytones, sugar and any ethanol, and apply the percentages accordingly, much less accurate though. If possible they can also chart it with the urine specimine directly from the bladder.
 
dairybest said:
I have two questions that have been annoying me and may already have been asked.

1) Why don't these supposedly drunken tragedies happen on "Spring Break" when thousands of college students get blistered ON the water?

2) Why doesn't the concentration of tragedies from the Central U.S. through New England (and not on the West Coast) NOT send up a flag for the FBI?

Thanks ~ db
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Good questions.

I have another question. Please forgive me if this has been answered here somewhere. Is there evidence that any of these men were sexually assaulted?
 
IdahoMom said:
Good questions.

I have another question. Please forgive me if this has been answered here somewhere. Is there evidence that any of these men were sexually assaulted?
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Not so far in the cases that are "known" to LE.
 
Blink34 said:
Not so far in the cases that are "known" to LE.
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Thanks. I've been wanting to ask that. I wouldn't be surprised if they were filmed, though.

Another question, blink. Thanks for bearing with me. Have you seen any interviews with FBI profilers regarding these deaths?
 
I have, and because the serial connection does not fit, and keep in mind they go strictly off the evidence in conjunction with the behavioral profile, they have not been convinced the actual cases the detectives are "corralling" are related to date.

Notice I say to date, because I believe that will change if the FBI takes up this investigation from a broader perspective. I think the recent case of Dane Williams may very well involve abuse of that nature, just a hunch though.
 
I was informed today by vermontn03 that the "On the Record" show with Greta will be doing a story on Fox News channel tonight. It is about the link between Nicholas Garza and the graffiti.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354386,00.html

The tile on the Fox news article is this;


Possible 'Smiley Face Gang' Link Emerges in Case of Missing Middlebury College Freshman




Respectfully,
dark_shadows
 
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