IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

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MotherOcean said:
How did he confirm the time of the day that he saw the bikes? He said he saw the bikes "around 12:20" and before 12:27. The girls were on the tape at Brovan at 12:19. I don't believe he saw the bikes. MOO. If he did see the bikes then he has placed himself at the same place as the girls within a mere moment. I need to double-check but I'm wondering if the statement by Breault was made before they got the second tape of the girls. I sure would love to know what they (FBI/LE) believe about TG's statement in light of the second tape. I know there has been a lot of talk about the timeline and we have had conversations here where we have really tried to hone in on the actual minutes... but no matter how I do the math, TG's sighting of the bikes makes no sense to me.
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Tg called his daughter, not because of the bikes, right after he saw the bikes. He had stopped for a restroom break or something like that. He said nothing to her about the bikes then. It was after he heard they were missing that he went to LE with his info. He was able to guesstimate the time by looking to see what time he called his daughter.
 
GCP said:
Tg called his daughter, not because of the bikes, right after he saw the bikes. He had stopped for a restroom break or something like that. He said nothing to her about the bikes then. It was after he heard they were missing that he went to LE with his info. He was able to guesstimate the time by looking to see what time he called his daughter.
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yes this is right. the bikes on the path wasn't a big deal until after he learned that the girls were missing.
 
SacreBleu said:
This is not directly entirely to you, but also to some of the other comments above: Ollie has said many times that he does not think the girls were on the lake side of the fence - the terrain is simply not conducive to playing. That, I suspect, is the reason for the fence. He also said that even HE gets creeped out riding through that part of the trail.
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I'm not local, but could see the girls going that way....but not an adult, unless he/she was a avid fisherman. When I was a kid, a path of only a foot wide on the shoreline would not have deterred me..or my friends. We would have navigated it by holding on to tree branches, etc for balancing. Plus the area just over the fence may have consisted of vines, weeds and trees, but maybe still able to get through--- tho carefully. Ollipop stated that taking the bikes that route (if dumping from the wooded area) would be almost impossible....and that I could see.

On another note, I've thought maybe one of the girls had fallen/wrecked and a not so nice person said they needed to go to the Dr/ER, etc.....or maybe to their house to get their cuts/scrapes cleaned up and bandaged? (Been there....but the guy was a very nice man sitting in his car waiting for his wife at the hairdressers nearby) This thought came from the one bike laying in the path---hence TG swerving - and the other being upright or leaning against the fence. But, I'm more inclined to believe that where EC's purse was found was where she grabbed or startled and it was just left behind. IMO
 
Labatt Blue said:
Why does it have 2B a black vs white thing? XD.BTW, I really think the whole white van thing is being overblown. I understand the signif. of the anonymous character of these generic vehicles. Lets not get carried away here.
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BBM -

Well, I don't suppose it HAS to be a black vs white thing. I was only sharing what is currently being publicized in my daily local news. And, about a situation in AZ that I had read about awhile ago.
 
MotherOcean said:
BBM -

Well, I don't suppose it HAS to be a black vs white thing. I was only sharing what is currently being publicized in my daily local news. And, about a situation in AZ that I had read about awhile ago.
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XD. I was only trying to lighten the seriousness of this case. Nothing more, nothing less. What EPMD said.
 
GCP said:
Tg called his daughter, not because of the bikes, right after he saw the bikes. He had stopped for a restroom break or something like that. He said nothing to her about the bikes then. It was after he heard they were missing that he went to LE with his info. He was able to guesstimate the time by looking to see what time he called his daughter.
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I know how he did it as far as what happened. But, he couldn't have confirmed an accurate time because they simply were not at the lake during the time that he saw the bikes. It's just not possible.
 
MotherOcean said:
I know how he did it as far as what happened. But, he couldn't have confirmed an accurate time because they simply were not at the lake during the time that he saw the bikes. It's just not possible.
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I still think he may have seen them before they rode back to town.
 
Can anyone transcribe in the scanner? I have no sound and can't do it.
 
nikb said:
I've never heard it clarified what LE meant by "paddleboat" but the reason for limiting it to roughly that description is that's what LE called it.
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Not sure if it ever got answered, but in Iowa, when I think of paddleboats, I think of the plastic boats with two seats that are powered by pedals connected to paddles under the boat. Cruise around. Do 360s within the length of the boat. That kind of thing. Thinking about it, I suppose there would be room for a third if the girls shared a seat. And perhaps there is a larger sized boat with more seats or a bench seat, though I don't remember ever seeing one.
 
I know a lot of people have a theory of how the abductor would use the paddle boat to lure the girls. I have a hard time with it though. If it was of such great interest at the beginning of the case, wouldn't LE have checked for fingerprints or other evidence on the boat itself. My problem is, if the boat came back clean for unknown prints (those other than the owners), we have to assume the abductor wiped it down thoroughly after kidnapping the girls. Who would have time to do this other than the owners? (Not implying they did it at all). The person who used it had to take it, paddle it across the lake (alone?), get two girls into it, paddle someplace and bring it back without the owners seeing ... how would he/she know when they would be returning? Also, being in the middle of a lake with two girls in a boat is leaving you in plain sight for as long as it takes you to get to your destination. I would think someone committing a crime wouldn't want to be out and about for very long. In college, I was in a rowboat with a few friends, two of whom decided to smoke an illegal substance. I remember seeing a police car on one of the nearby streets and I yelled at them, "If they see you, idiots, we're in trouble! It's not like we can row away and hide!"
 
If both bikes were found against the fence, when did Abben get to the crime scene? That would be a crime scene at that point when the bikes were found. Would they be so lax to move the bikes before CSI arrived? I surely hope not they don't seem dumb. I know Abben's is not the lead on the case so I give him some slack for his honesty if it's that. Abben could have showed up at 10 pm for all we know.

Or

Someone moved them or TG saw different bikes, possibly a different day? But he called his daughter & it was posted on fb. He had to swerve on his bike to miss the bikes in the pathway.. hmmmm

Or

TG's timing is off & there was a runner who saw the bikes? Got me.

I feel they were staged and the girls never even made it to the lake that day. Isn't there a bar, or a truck stop close to Elizabeth's home?
 
I don't think the girls came to the lane via paddle boat. Besides the questions I have about using the paddle boat in the first place, looking at Otto's picture, it would seem pretty hard to go from lake to lane without disturbing the ground cover.

Also, same thing with walking up the lane to whereever a getaway vehicle was waiting. At least one abductor and two girls, seems like ground cover would be matted down enough to leave some trace.

Any of our locals know, is it all grown over? Are there foot trails that could hide the passage of people coming and going?
 
Pensfan said:
Yep, if the victims are usually abducted from when they were last seen, that might be the Brovan area. What is over near Brovan that would have helped a child abductor quickly grab two girls without being witnessed? Is that a desolate area with little traffic?

I wish we knew if the girls had visited the lake bike trail before or if any of their sightings at the lake on 7/13 are "verified". The search dogs might have hit on an old scent.
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Umm... one to two people behind a trailer or trailers? Just thinking. Though again it'd be pretty darn bold to have it not only on G'mas radar but also surveillance camera.
 
Thinkzerz said:
Now that makes sense. FaceBook might have got wind of under age Lryic on FaceBook and they themselves deleted her page.
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Things might've totally changed by now but on her 14th BD my half-sis was so excited she could finally get a FB page. As in after midnight she said "I can get on FB"! It was darn near the excitement level I remember personally for being able to drive, vote, or buy a drink. Something was on the news recently about allowing younger kids on FB but monitoring it more, I think MySpace had to do the same thing. When I'm less sleepy I can look for a link if someone would like one.

I tend to agree that if they heard about a 10 year old's page they'd delete it ASAP but it also might take awhile to find.
 
Copper said:
Not sure if it ever got answered, but in Iowa, when I think of paddleboats, I think of the plastic boats with two seats that are powered by pedals connected to paddles under the boat. Cruise around. Do 360s within the length of the boat. That kind of thing. Thinking about it, I suppose there would be room for a third if the girls shared a seat. And perhaps there is a larger sized boat with more seats or a bench seat, though I don't remember ever seeing one.
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Yep we're picturing exactly the same thing, I swore I'd seen one with a larger seat in the back as well but haven't seen one after much searching so it might've just been in the "stuff I remembered as a kid" category. Or it's now an antique :(
 
MotherOcean said:
Mr. Carpenter on Lake Avenue was the last person to see the girls alive.
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Sorry I'm really not trying to be snarky, but who (MSM, even another person) confrmed that sighting? The last MSM sighting I can find was earlier but sadly much less promising.
 
nikb said:
Sorry I'm really not trying to be snarky, but who (MSM, even another person) confrmed that sighting? The last MSM sighting I can find was earlier but sadly much less promising.
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ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, Mr. Carpenter told "The Des Moines Register" that he was out watering his yard. He says it was sometime between noon and 3:00 o`clock when he saw the girls ride by.

Now, he`s a little closer to the lake. He`s about two blocks or so away from Meyers Lake. He says at the time, he didn`t think anything of it.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html
 
katydid23 said:
That is why I keep going back to a fisherman as the perp.

He could have gotten to know them over a few days. They may have been riding their bikes over there for a few days and seen him in that time.

Whenever we hiked, and my kids saw someone fishing, they always wanted to stop and look. They wanted to see in the bucket and see what was caught.

If a pedophile wanted a good way to meet kids he could hang out at the lake and talk to any kids that stopped by.

We have the girls scent going to the edge of the lake. Maybe they stood there and talked to the perp for awhile.

Then it went into the woods a little bit. Maybe he lured them into there to see some fish or to have a picnic?

They may have been riding their bikes and saw him and he motioned for them to drop their bikes and come through the fence. They already 'knew' him so they felt comfortable doing so.

They talked at the waters edge and he said " do you want some fishing poles to use, or do you want to go on the paddle boat?"

Let's go over to my car/yard/ and get your poles or get the boat.
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Katy, that's such a good theory, very likely,:moo:.
Imoo, I also believe the abductor was not a total stranger to the girls.
 
iamnotagolem said:
But consider the source, this information is not coming from the dogs handler or the FBI. The source does not know what the dog was commanded to do. It may be have been a canvas command and the dog found nothing. JMO, MOO, etc
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You're right.
 
mahoolin said:
BBM
I think the statements are carefully scripted too, and that there could be a message within. I think they're scripted to encourage more than one interpretation as well. Our "un-sub" is out there, where's Spencer Reid and Penelope Garcia when you need them? If only it were that easy... :sigh:

Lyric, Elizabeth - we're working on getting you home...
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mahoolin, oh how I love your words, where's Reid and Garcia? Lol

I thought by now the girls would be home, safe and sound. I never thought
they would be missing this long.
Like you said all here are working to get them home.

Praying for Lyric and Elizabeth.
 
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