CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #3

cluciano63 said:

I do think he haws a period of getting agitated before an event and then a cooling down peroid after, as a rule, which is common to serial offenders. He may not have been able to "enjoy" his cooling down period with Chelsea's murder since the response and the search started so quickly and I think he meant to keep the panties and either dropped or threw them as he was exiting the burial scene...
And then hung around someplace to try to watch the search activity so he would know when they got close...
I am kind of surprised that he did not flee the area as he must have known they would find her and SHOULD have known they would find DNA...he could have been in Mexico before he was ID'd and on the run...wonder if this is due to false sense of security on his part i.e. I am smarter than cops, or just plan stupidity? In any case we have to be glad he did not run...he may have committed a string of horrible crimes but he is done now.

I too think we need to be hesitant to jump on LE too much due to the various juridictions involved and the fact they he was not always where he was meant to be...it is very hard to keep track when you have your own batch of SO's to check on with every crime...this is where we come back to GPS...and then they could at least look back and see who was where when and also maybe would have found Amber by now. I hope they do find her soon, am not hopeful that she is in same park.

Click to expand...

TheMentalist said:

From the description of the shallow grave it was estimated at 10 feet from the shore so I doubt he planned to put her in the water. Also, the area was not really accessible by foot as well as rattlesnakes in the area. I think that possibly shoe was lost in struggle...I not sure that they found one or two of her shoes...Im inclined to think two which would make more sense to me.

Maybe someone can check on that fact but I think it would be very easily to lose your shoe in a struggle. I also believe I heard a sports bra was found but no confirmation it was Chelsea's As for the underwear...they could of been torn off we really dont know what the conditon of them was ...maybe they were thrown in the lake which is what I think because law enforcement thought that they had possibly came from somewhere else or drifted to the shore area where they were found. I dont think they were found on a trail.

As for the shoe and pedometer I thought that the first report placed those items near a trail. Another thing to consider is no matter where the sexual assault occurred he would of had to carry Chelsea so I doubt he did so with her naked...would draw too much attention. Another theory could be the shoes were never removed from Chelseas feet during the rape and simply fell off at different times while he transported her and he was not paying attention. The reason I feel he carried her is because it would of been way to easy to get a scent on the ground and would leave drag marks.

I believe someone introduced the word unnatural during Chelsea's search, I dont really remember who or what was saidd but I do recall wondering if he raped her post-mortem. I have a feeling Chelsea fought him with everything she had. Of course I am only speculating and until COD is released we really wont know much more. I found the choice of word that Chelsea's mother used in describing JAG...she said "Creature" what makes me also think that things were done post-mortem. Also if JAG even thought about DNA perhaps he thought he had disposed of it in the lake. What do the rest of you think?

Click to expand...

sarx said:

Unless he has some connection to that park it doesn't really make sense why he'd choose there. Seems like there must have been other places on the way from the school closer and more secluded to pull off.

Click to expand...

RUNNING SPRINGS — He was popular with girls and made fun of by classmates. He ran errands for neighbors and discovered outdoor sports. He could be moody and aggressive when he didn’t take his medication.

By any measure, the adolescent years that accused killer John Albert Gardner III spent in this mountaintop village were the high-water mark of a deeply troubled life.

Click to expand...

SWAG1959 said:

<sniped> That way he could carry her like you normally would carry someone who has passed out - both arms out in front with person cradled. He can carry her that way down a trail so IF detected he can pass it off as she "passed out" or "fainted" or whatever (common for a runner to do).
He carried her to where they found her.

Click to expand...

SoCalSleuth said:

Lake Elsinore

Click to expand...

TravelingBug said:

It is pretty big. But it seems like over time it might be something they need to consider a way to do - maybe from boat. At least on the edge nearer his grandma's home.

I think they need to do the north side of Hodges from around the bend below Del Dios Park and down past Hernandez Hideaway. It's the area where the possible knife was rumored to be found, and with him have damp pants from the knee down I still think he may have been revisiting an area of interest, especially given the amount of searching they were doing.

Click to expand...

Voice4theSilent said:

IMO they should also search along Ortega Highway.

Click to expand...

Leila said:

My in-laws used to live in Murrieta, and we visited them about every six weeks. We'd pass Lake Elsinore and often get off the freeway there for a rest stop or gas. As I remember, the lake had big changes in the water level. I remember my in-laws talking about the lake being "high this year" or low.

Click to expand...

Voice4theSilent said:

IMO they should also search along Ortega Highway.

Click to expand...

Mick said:

Yes, I remember Lake Elsinore rising and falling in the years I jumped out there, back in the 1970's. Is the para center even still there??

Click to expand...

sniperacer said:

Lots of varying posts? A couple of points ....



As a parent two runners who have done a lot of training (one is running 22 miles now), run in countless events and are running the LA Marathon in two weeks, I can say it is 100% incorrect that it is "common for runners pass out or faint". If this happens to anyone, find a doctor quick! Seeing someone carrying anyone on a trail would be a huge red flag to other hikers or runners.



Not sure how we digressed to Lake Elsinore? Lake Elsinore is a relatively large (So CA standards) shallow lake. This lake varies greatly in water level over the years (more so than Hodges). As some have said, the residencial and commercial areas around the lake are growing. But, there is still many miles of open space and lake to hide a "needle" - making it rather impossible to find.

The Lake Elsinore demographics is lower than So CA average. As it has been pointed out, there are 99% more RSO, including JAG, and illegals in the Lake Elsinore area than around the Lake Hodges neighborhoods. Which is why, in my opinion, Chelsea's neighbors (and parents) are pissed a RSO was living, hidden, unregistered, in theirs.

If JAG is responsible for other disappearances, I believe they may need help in locating the missing. Their are just too many places to bury someone - and we do know he buries.

Click to expand...

secretagent said:

I can maybe see losing one shoe is a struggle, but I am a runner and find that if i don't tie my shoes tighly and double knot them I am having to stop and re-tie them. What I am amazed at is the removal of a sports bra- not easily ripped and hard to get on/off when you are willing to take it off yourself...seems like a long process when you don't know how long it will be til someone comes down the trail. I think it would be just as hard, if not harder to remove a sports bra post mortem.

edited for typo++

Click to expand...

JBean said:

I am on the SJC side of the Ortega and it would be a LOT to search. Talk about needle in a haystack! Samantha Runnion was easy to find because Avila put her on display.but the Ortegas would certainly be a good place to dispose of a body no doubt.

Click to expand...

secretagent said:

I can maybe see losing one shoe is a struggle, but I am a runner and find that if i don't tie my shoes tighly and double knot them I am having to stop and re-tie them. What I am amazed at is the removal of a sports bra- not easily ripped and hard to get on/off when you are willing to take it off yourself...seems like a long process when you don't know how long it will be til someone comes down the trail. I think it would be just as hard, if not harder to remove a sports bra post mortem.

edited for typo++

Click to expand...

JBean said:

I am on the SJC side of the Ortega and it would be a LOT to search. Talk about needle in a haystack! Samantha Runnion was easy to find because Avila put her on display.but the Ortegas would certainly be a good place to dispose of a body no doubt.

Click to expand...

Mick said:

Absolutely, last time I was through there, the old hot spring had been redeveloped, except for the 'private pool' that was a bit south and a little bit up hill of the main spring. It was a great spot to stop off on the way back from jumping.

Click to expand...