Moors Murderers

[Hugh]

Some of you may remember the case of the Moors Murderers, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, both have died but the graves of some of their victims have never been located.
in their later years Hindley and Brady wrote to each other in their respective institutions. It is now believed that the letters from Brady to Hindley conatined some coded clues as to the whereabouts of the graves.
Hindley tried to use her knowledge to seek parole (both died in prison) but her searches of Saddleworth moor proved fruitless and just prolonged the agony of parents who have had to live with this for 30+ years.

The BBc is screening a documentary this week which attempts to solve the msytery. I can only hope this will have a good outcome. I will keep you posted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/3649958.stm

Well having accessed the the above website I got nearly every detail wrong, sorry about that.

[deputylinda]

Hugh i remember that case very well. wasn't there a book, "beyond belief"? that case was right out of arthur conan doyle, and reminiscent of hound of the baskervilles for horror and evil. now i need to go back and read your link, i did not know hindley and brady had died. wish i could see the documentary. note...looks like brady still alive.

[emma l]

Goodness- these are he scariest child-killers ever. I am only going to watch the documenary if my partner is back in time. (he's away working), otherwise I'll be scared on my own! I'm serious, its the woman- Myra who scares me. Theres something about her face............Shes dead now thank goodness. Thank you for posting this.

[VespaElf]

The Moors murders have always intrigued me esp.
So little(if at all) is mentioned about it here in the States(I found out about it back when I was a teenage punk and heard Myra Hindley mentioned in a Sex Pistols song )
Is it "forgotten" in the U.K too?



Didn't they tape record the murders in the name of "art"????


Absolutely chilling!
I too wish I could see the docu.
Oh well! Im off to find the book DL mentioned!!!




In a way it's a shame this horrific case is so obscure.

[Casshew]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/...moorsindex.htm


Some more interesting reading on this case.

[Hugh]

No it is never ever forgotton, that is why they managed to keep Hydley in till the day she died.
DL has the title it is "Beyond Belief" by Emlyn Williams.
A few years ago they were interviewing a policeman who was on the case and he still said after so many years he could hardly contain his anger and sorrow.
Yes they did tape the children, highly unusually the prosecution did not play most of the tapes in court and they have never been released. Think about thois for a second in this modern world where we are used to shocking audio and video every day, these are considered too shocking.

I was very remiss in a previous post, Brady is still alive. police want to search his cell to determine whether the pictures he has up of him and Hindley on Saddleworth moor may be coded clues as to the whereabouts of the body of Keith Bennett. They are being told it is against his "Human" rights. Some times I get so depressed about this world, what about Keiths parents rights to bury the son taken from them.

[emma l]

Well, I watched the programme last night and was so angry I could barely speak.

The programme was based around photos that Myra and Ian had taken before they were arrested. There was one particular photo that showed Myra, in a seeming innocent photo, on Saddleworth Moors, holding a dog, looking at the ground.

Myra later admitted that this was, in fact, her standing over a childs grave that they had murdered. She CLAIMS that Ian MADE her do it and she had no idea.

There were many other photos and one or 2 in particular showed Myra in similar poses- looking down at the ground on Saddleworth Moors. When in jail, Myra was so desperate to get hold of these photos she wrote her mother 5, 6 ,7 times begging for them back, saying "Ian really wants them" and even saying that Ian had threatened her if she didn't get them to him.

They now think that they were both so desperate to get these photos back because they depict Myra on graves as well, and they could help find a childs grave that is still missing. (Keith Bennet).

There is obviously no point talking to Ian about this as he is a psychopath and has never really helped in trying to locate this childs body. Myra, still insists that Ian forced her into the whole thing,(even though tape recordings exist of her torturing a child) and anyway shes dead. Keith's poor mother is obviously desperate for him to be laid to rest, and I have read before that she often goes up to the moors and looks for Keith's body. I just really felt for her- the pain must be indescribable.

Two things really struck me about this documentary. First was that it was the first time I had heard Myra's voice (they played some tapes of her talking about what she said happened). She sounded like a kindly old northern woman, and it was a shock. Of course the adult me knows that most paedophiles and murderers just look, and sound like normal people. But I think I thought I would somehow know instinctively that this person had killed children, just by her voice. But I didn't. She sounded "normal" and it was a real shock.

The second was a statement from the police saying that although they were investigating that these photos might lead them to the remains of Keith Bennett, they had difficulty in proceeding. Why? Because ,as Hugh said ,they were refused a warrant to search Ian Bradeys cell on the grounds that it would INVADE HIS HUMAN RIGHTS!!

This made me SO ANGRY. What rights??!! He's in jail- so by definition, has none. He murdered children, so by definition he has none. I was so angry and just really felt for little Keith's brother and mother.

They are still investigating the photos, but who knows what will come of it. It was said that Ian thinks he's "won" because he still has never given up the secret the Keith's grave site. I was so furious.

Here is little Keiths "Doe" page http://doenetwork.us/cases/807dmuk.html

And Messiecake, this case is notorious over here- Hugh is right. Neither Hindley nor Brady could ever have been released. Say either of their names to any gerneration and they will KNOW what you're talking about. It will never be forgotten- and its been over 30 years.

[Casshew]

Hi emma.. thank you for the report on that show.. I wish we had been able to see it here in Canada... I will watch for it.

It is obscene that they could not violate his 'human rights' this whole law needs to be reviewed to protect the victims. I understand they have to stay inside boundries so cases in court aren't jeapordized.. but come on! a basic search of the grounds?

Anyway.. thanx for letting us know about it... I will check out that doe site.

[Hugh]

Hi Emma, I saw it too and feel the same, every time the flashed up a picture of those poor children !!
Worst than Myra I thought was Brady's statement to his shrink, "You want to know where they are, I know where they are, and I'm not telling, I've won"
Time for an assisted suicide methinks.
I keep thinking that somehow with the technology available to us (just watch things like Time Team) where they can discover outlines and traces of graves from 1000's of years ago we could somehow help Keiths Mother find her poor little boy.

[mysteriew]

Originally Posted by Hugh

police want to search his cell to determine whether the pictures he has up of him and Hindley on Saddleworth moor may be coded clues as to the whereabouts of the body of Keith Bennett. They are being told it is against his "Human" rights. Some times I get so depressed about this world, what about Keiths parents rights to bury the son taken from them.

excuse me, but isn't this guy in prison aren't search and siezures routine in prison

[deputylinda]

Originally Posted by mysteriew

excuse me, but isn't this guy in prison aren't search and siezures routine in prison

yes...in America anyway, there is no expectation of privacy...cells are subject to search at any time.

[VespaElf]

My sister in law was supposed to have recorded this for me so I'll eventually get to see it -it sounds riveting!


I firmly belive the pictures are "pointing" to burial sites-I hope now theyve been shown in public it will lead to some investigating!



Its funny how the police in England can search your house w/out a warrant (provided theres 'probable cause') but an inmate's cell cannot be searched!!!!!

[emma l]

Isn't it! My partner was saying during the programme, "you realise the police could come into this (totally innocent) flat right now and search us and take us to jail to be questioned. But they can't search a convicted multiple-murderers cell. "

Its scary, and repulsive to me

[Hugh]

I think at the latest count there are some 20+ agencies that can enter your house, these include, Police, MI5, MI6, British Gas, Electricity companies, Phone companies, water companies, Inland Revenue, VAT inspectors, Social Security, local council etc, etc,etc.

What a weird country we sometimes live in!

[missacorah]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006480529,00.html

Link to article where Myra Hindley is depicted as a saint - sick!

[s_finch]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Hi Emma, I saw it too and feel the same, every time the flashed up a picture of those poor children !!
Worst than Myra I thought was Brady's statement to his shrink, "You want to know where they are, I know where they are, and I'm not telling, I've won"
Time for an assisted suicide methinks.
I keep thinking that somehow with the technology available to us (just watch things like Time Team) where they can discover outlines and traces of graves from 1000's of years ago we could somehow help Keiths Mother find her poor little boy.

Oh, but just think how WE could get him to talk if given a little time alone with him. I would stoop low in order to make him divulge his knowledge. Sorry, but it's true.

[enigma]

for anyone interested in this case, HBO is currently showing a teledocumentary on it called "Longford".

[kitbits]

LE are no longer going to search for poor Keith Bennett:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/8127883.stm

I saw on BBC's One Show on Friday night, however, that Martina Cole is keen to rally support & funding so that the search can continue.

[HesterMofet]

Originally Posted by kitbits

LE are no longer going to search for poor Keith Bennett:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/8127883.stm

I saw on BBC's One Show on Friday night, however, that Martina Cole is keen to rally support & funding so that the search can continue.

Keith's mother said, "He knows where he is and won't tell anyone." But I know both Hindley and Brady were taken out to the moors to search for victims because that's how they found Pauline Reade. The problem with the moors is that the ground moves and changes and what was in one place 45 years ago may not be there anymore.

Maybe Brady is keeping the location a secret as one last thing he can hold to himself? He's been on a hunger strike for years and is fed through a feeding tube. (Why bother? Let him go.) I think it's grandstanding otherwise, why doesn't he just kill himself? He has expressed no desire to get out of prison (because he knows he never will), so that's the only thing I can think of. If he does know, it's one las big "screw you" to the system. I feel for Keith's mother as I fear she will never find her son to bury him.

[believe09]

FWIW, they should make a deal with him-lead them to Keith's body and when it is recovered, they will disconnect the feeding tube.

Win Win...jmo

[athy]

that wouldn't work believe. as per his statement as long as he never tells them where keith's body is...he's won. that is one sick @#%^
if he were to die he would still die thinking as long as no body he's won.

[missacorah]

Its heartbreaking to see Keiths mother still waiting all these years later. I fear she'll never find her son too.

[J. Brannagh]

This case is so heartbreaking and Frustrating that the LE where he is being held have to honor his "rights" more than any right his victims have had.

There are so few cases of couple killings where the woman seems to have been an equal participant in the killings. I tend to believe that she was a willing participant.

The movie Longford was quite chilling, it did seem to slant to sympathy for Hindley...

[believe09]

Originally Posted by athy

that wouldn't work believe. as per his statement as long as he never tells them where keith's body is...he's won. that is one sick @#%^
if he were to die he would still die thinking as long as no body he's won.

I know-Ted Bundy had the same philosophy. Somehow this made him powerful. I suspect if the search was given up for the little boy and the mom stopped begging to know, he would quickly start making noises about it...after all it must be mighty unpleasant to be living your life being force fed like an animal waiting to be slaughtered...talk about emasculating!!! And if people are no longer interested in your or your handiwork, well then he would likely stir the pot.

JMO.

[Blackwatch]

This has always been one of the most horrible, yet fascinating cases I have ever read. Are any of you aware that Ian Brady wrote a book entitled, "The Gates of Janus"? I bought it, started to read it in the hopes that I could learn something. Alas, it was, to me, boring clap trap from a sick mind. However, it's been years and I might give it another go. If any of you have the chance, give it a read and see what you think.