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  #1  
Old 01-02-2005, 09:29 PM
jokar jokar is offline
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Angry CA - Black Dahlia case: Elizabeth Short murdered in Los Angeles, 1947

A beautiful dark-haired woman, Elizabeth Short was brutally murdered in the 1940's, I think LA or Hollywood area, but not sure. The cops had a list of suspects but no arrests were ever made. The suspects were like a list right out of a murder mystery screenplay - all weird guys with motives.

Recently, I read that the son of a doctor who lived near the murder scene names his father as the killer - but some of the cops who worked the scene that are still living doubt it.

Any thoughts on this anyone? This murder was specially brutal - I really hate injustice and I feel badly that this poor woman's killer was never brought to justice.
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Old 01-02-2005, 09:52 PM
Casshew Casshew is offline
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Hi - I saw the same documentary.. it was really interesting, sounds like his Dad really killed her.

Here is a good site on the Black Dahlia

http://blackdahliasolution.org/
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Old 01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
Rachael Rachael is offline
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I saw the show too. It really did seem possible that the doctor/father commited the murder. The man didn't seem like a very nice person. He molested his daughter.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2005, 10:39 PM
Kathy C Kathy C is offline
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Black Dahlia Avenger

http://www.blackdahliaavenger.com

I didn't see the documentary, but read the book. He convinced me. His father did it. Check out his site. Steve Hodel.

Kathy C
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Old 01-02-2005, 11:16 PM
tennessee tennessee is offline
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I remember the first time I heard the story of Elizabeth Short. I was around 10 years old. It was on a tv show that I can't remember but her story just stayed with me. I really think his dad did it, too.
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Old 01-06-2005, 01:26 AM
blueclouds blueclouds is offline
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I have read the book three times from Steve Hodel. According to the further information NOT supplied in his book, he has since uncovered various detailed information, transcripts, audio tapes interviews of his dad, fbi files and such regarding his father being the PRIME suspect.

It's worthy noting that his father LEFT the country for 20+ years very soon after the heat was on.

I'm very certain on this one, his father DID commit the crime. His book (albeit very wordy, very "factual" like a detective would be) IS worth the read.
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:14 PM
Kathy C Kathy C is offline
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I don't consider the book "wordy." It was suspenseful and analytical. Of course, the worst part of it is when he reveals how the Black Dahlia was tortured before being killed.

I believe Steve Hodel. It's unjust that the father didn't get caught, but nothing done to him could ever equal what he did to that woman. He or his accomplice was also the likely killer of crime writer, James Ellroy's, mother when Ellroy was 10, I believe. I think these mysteries have been solved.

What gives me the creeps is that Dr. Hodel liked to hang around with director John Huston and photographer Man Ray. These men were sadistic towards women. It's just Marilyn Monroe was only a starlet when Huston cast her in a movie, The Asphalt Jungle (and later, The Misfits). I'm glad she didn't get drawn in by those men.

Kathy C
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:18 PM
blueclouds blueclouds is offline
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Just a tidbit of info, John Huston is Angelica Huston's father. I bet she has some tragic & dark secrets.
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy C
What gives me the creeps is that Dr. Hodel liked to hang around with director John Huston and photographer Man Ray. These men were sadistic towards women. It's just Marilyn Monroe was only a starlet when Huston cast her in a movie, The Asphalt Jungle (and later, The Misfits). I'm glad she didn't get drawn in by those men.

Kathy C
Yeah, but Marilyn got drawn in by other men who were bad for her. The timing and circumstances (barbituates found in her rectum) of her death were too suspicious to be suicide. Men with mafia connections like Frank Sinatra, and even the Kennedys wanted her out of the way. She was going to be trouble... JMO
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Old 01-15-2005, 01:21 AM
JBean JBean is offline
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http://kfi640.com/hosts/handel_audio.html

This was a great interview by Bill Handel of KFI Radio.
Click the link and then scroll down to Black Dahlia
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:22 AM
dorna vavrina dorna vavrina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennessee
I remember the first time I heard the story of Elizabeth Short. I was around 10 years old. It was on a tv show that I can't remember but her story just stayed with me. I really think his dad did it, too.

What was the story on her being in san diego the night before and last seen going into a movie or something with a guy, possibly a sailor. Wasnt he the last known person to see her alive?
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Old 04-19-2005, 08:12 PM
Cydbaby Cydbaby is offline
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Who Killed The Black Dahlia

I suppose I've got to gamble along with old John Gilmore (who actually met the Black Dahlia as a child) ...I believe that Jack Wilson killed not only Beth Short, but the Bauerdorf woman.

We have some links to good Black Dahlia info on the email group "High Profile Cases". Come by and check us out please...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HighProfileCases

I'd love to get a conversation going about this case again....have been a fan of it since 1974.

Best wishes to all...
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2005, 06:26 AM
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Elizabeth Short to be on 48 hrs. Sat.

For more than six months, I was immersed in the details of the most famous unsolved murder in Los Angeles: the 59-year-old case of Elizabeth Short. Short was a beautiful 22- year-old wanna-be starlet who moved to Hollywood, only to be brutally murdered on January 15, 1947. In post-war America, the brutality of the case was so shocking that the case made national headlines for weeks. Even my own mother, also 22-years-old at the time and living in Miami, Florida, remembers the frightening details. Yet, despite a massive manhunt, the killer was never officially identified or found until perhaps now.

On Saturday night, we take a new look at the case and at a man who says he has solved it. Steve Hodel, a former Los Angeles Police detective, began looking at the cold case when he retired from the force. He became interested in it in because of two photos his own father had in an album. What Steve Hodel discovered about the Elizabeth Short case and about the mysteries in his own family will remind viewers, as it did me, that life sometimes operates in incredibly strange ways. At the end of the show, you will be able to judge for yourself whether the most famous unsolved murder case in Los Angeles can finally be closed.

- Erin Moriarty
Correspondent, 48 Hours Mystery

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/...-SearchStories
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:38 PM
miles_draken miles_draken is offline
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They have had Hodel on before, isn't this just a rerun? I haven't heard any new details on this case in quite sometime. The photos Hodel has in his posession I believe were disproved by a facial recognition artist. They said it wasn't Short in the photos. I'll have to check it out to see if it indeed is simply a repeat.
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles_draken
They have had Hodel on before, isn't this just a rerun? I haven't heard any new details on this case in quite sometime. The photos Hodel has in his posession I believe were disproved by a facial recognition artist. They said it wasn't Short in the photos. I'll have to check it out to see if it indeed is simply a repeat.
Since it's Christmas Eve, I imagine everything on that night will be a repeat.
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:13 PM
Susan Shock Susan Shock is offline
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The Black Dahlia case has always fascinated me and I saw the episode of 48 hours that focused on her. But I'm just a bit wary of Hodel's claims. They may be true. But I'm always a little suspicious. It is clear to me that Hodel has an axe to grind. And unlike Hodel, I can't dismiss the fact that experts disproved the photograph as Short and the handwriting as belonging to George Hodel. And to be fair, Hodel's father isn't around to contradict his statements. Still he does seem like a good suspect.

Last edited by Susan Shock; 12-28-2005 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:23 AM
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If y'all can stand a little cursing now and then, check out James Ellroy's Feast of Death on showtime airing this month and next month. There is a detective on there that has an awsome theory about who murdered Elizabeth. Has anyone seen it???
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Old 06-20-2006, 06:26 AM
Old Broad Old Broad is offline
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I found this new article on the Black Dahlia, it's a haunting mystery and one I'd love to see solved!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...223129,00.html

The Black Dahlia case (“a cold, cold case”, says the author) is one of the most notorious unsolved murders of modern times. Apart from her pulp-fiction moniker, it was the B-movie star looks of the victim and the state of her corpse that caught the popular imagination. She had been killed by blows to the head, probably from a pistol-whipping, and by deep incisions from her mouth up to each ear. If that had been all, even her nickname would not have been enough to guarantee her posthumous fame. But it was not all. Her body had been severed in two, drained of blood and washed, before being dumped, with half of the torso placed above and alongside the other half.

Immediately, the unknown culprit was dubbed a “werewolf fiend”, a vicious, depraved individual who might well strike again. Yet this was no ordinary rage killing and the victim had not been sexually assaulted. Because the spinal cord had been severed at the optimum point for the sake of ease, between the second and third vertebrae, it was suspected that the murderer was medically trained. Though it was never disclosed at the time, illegal abortionists were among those investigated.

The police had to deal with numerous “confessing Sams” and anonymous hoaxers. But there was a “control question” they could ask, something about the corpse which could help them eliminate attention-seeking would-be suspects. I shan’t spoil the unfolding pleasure of the book by revealing this secret, knowledge of which emerged only when some Los Angeles Police Department files were made public after 50 years.

More at link.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:30 AM
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michelle michelle is offline
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I need to get a book on this case. I am really interested in it but do not know too much about it. I watched a show on it, maybe 48 hours or something once.
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:42 PM
Stella Stella is offline
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Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella
Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!
The Black Dahlia Files, The Mob, The Mogel, and the Murder that transfixed Los Angeles has the photos. Its by Donald H. Wolfe. Its a very good book IMO. It addresses some of the claims such as Docs claim.
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Old 06-22-2006, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Stella
Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!
I did see the pics once and it freaked me out too. Wasn't she dismembered?
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Old 06-22-2006, 09:22 AM
Jeana (DP) Jeana (DP) is offline
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Originally Posted by michelle
I did see the pics once and it freaked me out too. Wasn't she dismembered?

Michelle, she was cut in half.

WARNING - EXPLICIT INFORMATION:

According to autopsy reports, there was quote, "a deep laceration on the face 3" long, which extends laterally from the right corner of the mouth.....There is a deep laceration 2 1/2" inches long extending laterally from the left corner of the mouth." (Those who witnessed the body lying in the ditch said that it appeared Short was smiling.) Severe bruising was present in several places on Short's head and neck, and there were also several small cuts on her upper lip. However, the hyoid bone was intact and there was no evidence of trauma near the thyroid glands or trachea, which would be indicative of strangulation. Multiple cuts and scratches also marked her chest, torso, and arms. A small, square shaped piece of skin was missing from her thigh - it was later found shoved far into her vagina, along with a fair amount of grass. For whatever reason, her killer or killers had cut off the small rose tattoo on her thigh and placed it inside her body. It also appeared that Short had been brutally sodomized post-mortem. Her stomach was also filled with quote "greenish brown granular matter, mostly feces and other particles that could not be identified." Perhaps surprisingly, there was no precense of sperm anywhere on her body.

Elizabeth Short was no doubt subjected to some form of torture before and after she died, as brusing only occurs in the living. In the end, the injuries to her face and head were listed as the cause of death. Her injuries display obvious signs of overkill...the cuts to the face and head injuries are hallmarks of overkill. The extent of her injuries could mean one of two things: Elizabeth Short was killed by someone who knew her, someone close to her, in a fit of rage. (Overkill is often present in crimes where the killer and victim are close to one another, as are injuries to the face and head, and other forms of mutilation.) On the other hand, her killer may have been a psychopath who chose her as his next victim. But if this were true, the murder of Elizabeth Short would not be such a person's first victim. It takes years of festering madness to reach the level of brutality achieved in her death. Serial killers evolve over time and modify how they kill. If an act gives them gratification, they will build on that. If a roaming killer murdered Elizabeth Short, this was no fledging criminal.

MORE AT:

http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/elizabeth.html
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:36 PM
bykerladi bykerladi is offline
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Here's an interesting article, and, at the end, it has the crime scene photos showing her body.


http://www.franksreelreviews.com/sho...lackdahlia.htm
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  #25  
Old 06-22-2006, 10:12 PM
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michelle michelle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
Michelle, she was cut in half.

WARNING - EXPLICIT INFORMATION:

According to autopsy reports, there was quote, "a deep laceration on the face 3" long, which extends laterally from the right corner of the mouth.....There is a deep laceration 2 1/2" inches long extending laterally from the left corner of the mouth." (Those who witnessed the body lying in the ditch said that it appeared Short was smiling.) Severe bruising was present in several places on Short's head and neck, and there were also several small cuts on her upper lip. However, the hyoid bone was intact and there was no evidence of trauma near the thyroid glands or trachea, which would be indicative of strangulation. Multiple cuts and scratches also marked her chest, torso, and arms. A small, square shaped piece of skin was missing from her thigh - it was later found shoved far into her vagina, along with a fair amount of grass. For whatever reason, her killer or killers had cut off the small rose tattoo on her thigh and placed it inside her body. It also appeared that Short had been brutally sodomized post-mortem. Her stomach was also filled with quote "greenish brown granular matter, mostly feces and other particles that could not be identified." Perhaps surprisingly, there was no precense of sperm anywhere on her body.

Elizabeth Short was no doubt subjected to some form of torture before and after she died, as brusing only occurs in the living. In the end, the injuries to her face and head were listed as the cause of death. Her injuries display obvious signs of overkill...the cuts to the face and head injuries are hallmarks of overkill. The extent of her injuries could mean one of two things: Elizabeth Short was killed by someone who knew her, someone close to her, in a fit of rage. (Overkill is often present in crimes where the killer and victim are close to one another, as are injuries to the face and head, and other forms of mutilation.) On the other hand, her killer may have been a psychopath who chose her as his next victim. But if this were true, the murder of Elizabeth Short would not be such a person's first victim. It takes years of festering madness to reach the level of brutality achieved in her death. Serial killers evolve over time and modify how they kill. If an act gives them gratification, they will build on that. If a roaming killer murdered Elizabeth Short, this was no fledging criminal.

MORE AT:

http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/elizabeth.html
Holy Cow Jeana!!!!! What the heck, I have never in my life read such gruesome info of a murder. I have read alot and this is just insane. What kind of person could or would do this? And I wonder if it was one or two people??
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