8-year-old boy charged with double homicide, St Johns, Az # 3

[mostlylurking]

From Thread #2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=75684&page=43
The other one was soooo long.
Let's continue here.

[Ms Suzanne]

Originally Posted by Linda7NJ

I think it's more of a matter of taste. Many people prefer posed pictures. I don't. Any decent photographer can do posed, it's the ability to capture candids and artistic creativity that I look for.

Yeah,I agree with you.

[fran]

Originally Posted by MeoW333

Read this and you guys tell me what you make of it, it's from the excellent link that Minachica found

"Everything happened around 5 PM that day, but Tiffany sent us a fax out of no where, and she
said she just "felt" like it had to be said, and she said it hit her hard. It is amazing to me how the
spirit can prompt us in all sorts of ways. There were feelings this whole day that she should just call her husband and apologize, and say I love you, thirty minutes before the incident happened. And the little boy had a feeling to not go home yet, so he walked around the block for a long time.I just am thankful we have the gospel in our lives."
http://bethanygentry.blogspot.com/2008/11/tragic.html

Certainly sounds like Tiffany and Vincent had a fight the night before or that day. I have put parts in Italics.

(remember that this blog is Tiffany's friend and was posted before they made an arrest of the boy)

I think I see another RED FLAG!

JMHO
fran

[Ms Suzanne]

Ok,Thankyou.It sounds good.

[Bobbisangel]

Originally Posted by Salem

Yes, I think it is really strange. Unless she asked the question after he said the kid was calling him, then it would be natural "why's he calling you, where's his dad" kind of thing.

I also think it is strange that if they are divorcing, he would call her "babe." Not impossible, could have done it from habit, but still. Her timing was impeccable, really and that is odd.

Salem

Maybe they aren't even planning on getting divorced and maybe he doesn't have a girlfriend there that he was planning on marrying. Why should we believe everything spoken or written about the two guys...why do we not question everything that is said about them. Instead we jump right on anything said about the guys. On the other hand anything said about the boy has to be questioned. We question what his gramma said about him. She is his gramma and I'm sure that she loves him and his dad. We don't know how she is feeling right now about anything. We don't know what she meant when she made the statement to the LE. Now if she would have said "there is no way that my grandson could have done what he is being accused of" she would be a saint in the eyes of others.

There isn't anything strange about Tim's wife calling him or about him calling her Babe. A lot of husbands call their wives Babe and other pet names. From what I remember Tim was going home on the weekends to be with his wife and daughters. Wonder how he fit a girlfriend in. I think someone is just trying to make him look bad just like the stuff about him being suspected of selling drugs. Suspected is the key word yet everyone jumped right on that and if I recall it has even been spoken as if it was recently and he was doing it right in St. Johns and on the reservation. Probably got in trouble for drugs when he was a young man years before he married or had kids...not two weeks ago. I can't see anything wrong with the wife asking where Vinnie was either. I'm snoopy and I would ask the same thing. Maybe she was just interested...nothing more and nothing less. No big deal.

I'm done with my rant but it just gets to me the way people are so willing to believe every single thing that is said about the two guys and even take it apart and turn it upside down to see if there is some hidden meaning yet don't believe a thing said about the boy. It's interesting to say the least because it really stands out. Oh, Vinnie's wife....no one knows what she thinks or how she feels because she isn't talking. I highly doubt that she plotted with or manipulated gramma concerning the boy. I'm sure that they both loved Vinnie. How they feel about the boy no one knows. They both have a lot on their plates right now and I would hate to be in their shoes.

[fran]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

From Thread #2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=75684&page=43
The other one was soooo long.
Let's continue here.

Thanks mostlylurking!

I brought this over from the other thread because I think we should discuss this. I have another one I'll bring over in just a minutes.


fran

Quote:
Originally Posted by minachica
Another interesting coworker post - this time Tanya Romans coworker:
http://whebrhotub.blogspot.com/2008/...killing-2.html

Weird.........in a news article, Tanya Romans said she and Tim had two college age daughters and Tim was the only support. Yet........this person says Tanya is a 'teacher' where she works.

Hmmmm........last time I looked, teachers got paid a wage.

Just an observation,
fran

[Linda7NJ]

Originally Posted by fran

I think I see another RED FLAG!

JMHO
fran

well please point it out to me cause I missed it

It sounds as if this was posted while the boy was still believed to be a witness

[twinkiesmom]

Originally Posted by fran

Weird.........in a news article, Tanya Romans said she and Tim had two college age daughters and Tim was the only support. Yet........this person says Tanya is a 'teacher' where she works.

Hmmmm........last time I looked, teachers got paid a wage.

Just an observation,
fran

Not all teachers receive a living wage for their work...If she were a parochial elementary school teacher or a public school teacher's aide, for example, I doubt her wages could support herself, much less two college tuitions, room and board, etc. It's entirely possibly Tim was THEIR sole support.

[MeoW333]

Fran brings up a good point with both of these blog links and what they say.
It's good for us to take a look at all angles, not just the boy. We know that police have just focused on the boy; and whatever other angles they've covered have been done shabbily.
Even if the boy has done this, there are questions that remain unsolved, such as was he working alone? did someone put the idea of killing the men into his head?

I think the timing of Tiffany's fax is very odd. 5pm. Right around when the killings were to have started.

[fran]

Thank you Meow!

You got my point! Just because LE has zeroed in on the young boy, is NO reason to stop looking at others involved in this case. I'm honestly NOT trying to POINT the finger at anyone else directly, JUST that it is a POSSIBILITY that the murderer(s?) was someone OTHER than the little boy.

Two guys who had recenlty gotten in a dispute at work.
Two guys who had recently gotten in a dispute at a bar.
One guy who's rumored to be wanting a divorce.
One guy who's rumored to have 'another woman.'
One guy who's 'rumored' to have had a fight with his wife the last time they were together.
One newlywed wife who was partying within weeks of her husband's brutal murder.
One bio-mom who said the boy and his father did everything together.
One bio-mom who said the boy (who's accused) loved his dad.
One SMALL (4' @ 65lbs) boy who's credited with outstanding marksmanship, able to overtake two grown men with a single action 22 that required reload after each shot.
One detective where this crime is her FIRST case under her new title.
One detective who KNEW the alleged perp, PRIOR to the crime.
Two seasoned detectives who questioned an 8 yo boy the same way they do 20, 30, 40 yo criminals, using all the same desceptive practices.

I don't believe LE's job is done here. I'm NOT convinced the boy is the perp. I'm NOT convinced of ANYTHING with regard to this case,..............except........a RUSH TO JUDGEMENT by LE to tie this all up, quickly.

JMHO
fran

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by fran

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoW333
Read this and you guys tell me what you make of it, it's from the excellent link that Minachica found

"Everything happened around 5 PM that day, but Tiffany sent us a fax out of no where, and she
said she just "felt" like it had to be said, and she said it hit her hard. It is amazing to me how the
spirit can prompt us in all sorts of ways. There were feelings this whole day that she should just call her husband and apologize, and say I love you, thirty minutes before the incident happened. And the little boy had a feeling to not go home yet, so he walked around the block for a long time.I just am thankful we have the gospel in our lives."
http://bethanygentry.blogspot.com/2008/11/tragic.html

Certainly sounds like Tiffany and Vincent had a fight the night before or that day. I have put parts in Italics.

(remember that this blog is Tiffany's friend and was posted before they made an arrest of the boy)




I think I see another RED FLAG!

JMHO
fran

I really don't know what to make of this. We all have been told to never carry anger around unresolved everyday because we never know when we will die or someone we love and there is no going back. It seems she knew she should have apologized to her husband and I am not sure if she did that or not but iirc, he called her saying he was leaving work, so he didn't seem to be angry with her about being upset with him.

I believe the rest of the blog post was going by what was known at the time and the boy saying he had walked around the block 9-10 times. I am sure he told Tiffany and the rest of the family the same thing the day this happened.

imoo

[Chargergal]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

Not all teachers receive a living wage for their work...If she were a parochial elementary school teacher or a public school teacher's aide, for example, I doubt her wages could support herself, much less two college tuitions, room and board, etc. It's entirely possibly Tim was THEIR sole support.

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time aroud and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceromony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

[twinkiesmom]

Originally Posted by Chargergal

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time aroud and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceromony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

[minachica]

Hmm, it sure looks like Candy thought Tim was in love with her. (How awful for the Romans if this is how they found out! Or either way, really)
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=618 20199
Who I'd like to meet:
The person I would Like to meet already has my heart, but was taken from me. Tim I love you and still have to many unanswered questions for you. Someday God will bring us back together. You will always have my heart. You taught me to Love again and I will always remember that. With ALL my Love to Timothy Romans.

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by Chargergal

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time around and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceremony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

I found both Brewer and the officer very lacking in the Q&A at times. In the statement you have above, Brewer cut her off on what she was going to say further. Several cross talks at times imo

Since we are posting blogs and comments there is a link somewhere on the other thread that mentions Tiffany was pregnant. I will try to find it.

But even if she isn't I don't think her statement is odd. A lot of young married couples plan to have children together in their marriage even if either one of them already has children.

I don't think the photographer's website shows the group photos that were taken imo and only selected random family members. An average wedding usually up to 120 to 150 photos are taken. I am sure there are beautiful photos of the boy, his step mom and his dad. The photographer may have thought due to the dire circumstances of what has occurred it would not be appropriate to show those photos.

imo

[fran]

Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes

I really don't know what to make of this. We all have been told to never carry anger around unresolved everyday because we never know when we will die or someone we love and there is no going back. It seems she knew she should have apologized to her husband and I am not sure if she did that or not but iirc, he called her saying he was leaving work, so he didn't seem to be angry with her about being upset with him.

I believe the rest of the blog post was going by what was known at the time and the boy saying he had walked around the block 9-10 times. I am sure he told Tiffany and the rest of the family the same thing the day this happened.

imoo

OE

To be honest, the only thing I'm trying to point out is that everything MAY NOT be as it seemed at first glance.

1. Some have been quick to jump on the child as a psycho because LE has a confession.

2. Some are quick to defend the wife because their wedding was just weeks prior and they APPEARED so happy.

3. Some are quick to jump on the grandparent's statement that 'if any 8year old is capable of this, he is.' Because they KNOW the boy, many say 'the grandparents should know.'

YET, we see from the video, that LE 'coerced' the confession from the child. This has been stated in news articles and on tv MSM programs, by experts in the field.

We see that there was a RECENT major arguement between husband and wife.

We see the wife out going to parties just a few weeks after her husband is brutally murdered.

We learn that it was the WIFE who said the 'boy was capable of murder' to the grandparents and they didn't agree until AFTER the boy was arrested.

We HEAR that the second victim was going to get a divorce and marry someone local.

Seeeee..........I just BELIEVE that everything is NOT as it MAY appear and the matter needs to be looked at closer. Perhaps an OUTSIDE agency should review this case. Not trying to put local LE agency down, but.........they have made a LOT of mistakes AND one of the investigating detectives is a friend of the alleged 8 you perp.

Just something to think about.
fran

[MeoW333]

Originally Posted by Chargergal

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time aroud and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceromony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

Chargergal, this is an excellent link! If anyone knows how to convert pdf files to regular so people without pdf can read it easier?

It said in the interview that Tim Romans went out to bars everynight (according to Tiffany when Officer Avila interviewed her). Also more detail about the problems the men had at work with a man named Larry Curley.

"BB: You, uh, Tiffany indicated there was some suggestion that Erin had possibly kidnapped *****? At some point?
TA: She said something, um, about, that. I, I asked her how she gets, um, you know, the, how they get along with, uh, the bio, biological mother and she said they get, uh, she says I get along with them better than Vince does, she goes, I’m the one that mainly sets everything up and talks ta him and, talks ta her and everything. And, um, cuz I wanted ta see if there was any problems, you know, even with that, and then, uh, she told me that he, um, that, mom was here that weekend, and, um, I ferget where I was going with this."

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf

[MeoW333]

Originally Posted by Chargergal

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time aroud and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceromony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

Chargergal, this is an excellent link! If anyone knows how to convert pdf files to regular so people without pdf can read it easier?

It said in the interview that Tim Romans went out to bars everynight (according to Tiffany when Officer Avila interviewed her). Also more detail about the problems the men had at work with a man named Larry Curley.

"BB: You, uh, Tiffany indicated there was some suggestion that Erin had possibly kidnapped *****? At some point?
TA: She said something, um, about, that. I, I asked her how she gets, um, you know, the, how they get along with, uh, the bio, biological mother and she said they get, uh, she says I get along with them better than Vince does, she goes, I’m the one that mainly sets everything up and talks ta him and, talks ta her and everything. And, um, cuz I wanted ta see if there was any problems, you know, even with that, and then, uh, she told me that he, um, that, mom was here that weekend, and, um, I ferget where I was going with this."

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf

[MeoW333]

Originally Posted by Chargergal

The girls are attending Scottsdale Community College - no room and board. Most likely on a grant through the Indian College Scholarships.
One other thing that seems odd to me is that in the questioning that the DE did with the female officer that "coerced" the boy, she said that Tiffay was crying at the scene "we were going to have kids together"...what? I don't know just kind of weird. http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf
You've probably already read this but here it is.
One other note, just as a side note. The girls are college age, lets say 19 & 20, Tim was 39...which means he had them very early in life as well as TR had CR...maybe they were all lacking coping skills. Please understand, I am not judging...I had my first daughter at 20 and those times were very tough. Thank God I found a wonderful husband the second time aroud and he raised my three children as a step father, never laid a hand on them and all my children were in lots of pictures with him at our wedding...in fact we did a group hug during the ceromony. As someone else posted earlier, on that day not only did he become a husband he became a father as well.

Chargergal, this is an excellent link! If anyone knows how to convert pdf files to regular so people without pdf can read it easier?

It said in the interview that Tim Romans went out to bars everynight (according to Tiffany when Officer Avila interviewed her). Also more detail about the problems the men had at work with a man named Larry Curley.


http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf

There's a lot in the link that is relevant, including that the grandfather didn't want the boy interviewed at first and Avila finally convinced him she was trained to interview children..

[MeoW333]

Chargergal, this is an excellent link! If anyone knows how to convert pdf files to regular so people without pdf can read it easier?

It said in the interview that Tim Romans went out to bars everynight (according to Tiffany when Officer Avila interviewed her). Also more detail about the problems the men had at work with a man named Larry Curley.


http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Avilla.pdf

There's a lot in the link that is relevant, including that the grandfather didn't want the boy interviewed at first and Avila finally convinced him she was trained to interview children..

[Chargergal]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

Typo...sorry. I did mean VR. He was 20/21 and Bio-Mom was 18. Thanks for pointing that out.
K

[Chargergal]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

Typo...sorry. I did mean VR. He was 20/21 and Bio-Mom was 18. Thanks for pointing that out.
K

[Chargergal]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

Thanks for point that out. It was a typo. I meant VR and bio-mom had CR very young. Also the reference to "becoming a father that day" was a reference to my husband becoming a father that day to my three children. Sorry that wasn't clear.
K

[oceanblueeyes]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

I agree. In our wedding we each had children and all of them were in our wedding.

My son then (now our son..like our daughters) was our ring bearer and he is the one that lead me down the isle and gave me away to my husband, representing himself and his four sisters. " Who giveth this woman away.....?" etc. and he replied, "my sisters and I".

imoo

[OrdinaryLife]

Originally Posted by twinkiesmom

I think this is backwards...VR is the natural parent. TR became a stepmom after the wedding.

I could be mistaken, but I think the point is regardless who the natural parent is, a family becomes a "new" family. A new set of "parents" and children.

IMHO