Suicides or Serial Killer Victim's? Three Utah bodies found in burning cars

[SuziQ]

There have been three bodies found in burning cars in the past month. The first one was found on March 9th, the second one on March 20th, and the third one this morning on April 2nd. The first two vics are men and have been identified, the third has no ID yet.

When I heard of the first case, and with LE saying evidence pointed to a suicide, I thought ok it does happen. However, the case is still open and has not been ruled on. The second case LE won't say what they think and my hinky meter was alerted. Both cases are being investigated as suspicious. Now with the third case my hinker meter is on overdrive. Also note that the obits state that both these men were known for volunteering with children. I'll post the case info for each one below, including the obits for the first two.

Happy Sleuthing.

Lorin Deloy Fischer, 28, of Taylorsville, Utah
Body and car found at Spruces Campground in Big Cottonwood Canyon, Utah
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705290299,00.html

(snips)
The body was found Monday in the Spruces campground area. Both the victim and the car were burned extensively. Investigators located a license plate in the burned debris and determined the vehicle's owner. Family members confirmed the victim had not been seen since Sunday, said Salt Lake County Sheriff's Lt. Don Hutson.
During an autopsy, a medical examiner compared dental records and identified the victim as Lorin Deloy Fischer, 28, of Taylorsville.

Hutson previously said there was no evidence of foul play, but homicide had not been completely ruled out. Hutson said the evidence was strongly pointing to suicide.

Obituary:
http://www.legacy.com/saltlaketribun...onId=125051362

Gregory M. Nelson, 35, of West Jordan, Utah
Body and car found near Saltair by the Great Salt Lake, Utah
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11995741

(snip)
The Utah Medical Examiner's Office conducted an autopsy on Nelson's body but was unable to determine if the cause of death was suicide or a homicide, Hutson said. Detectives are still investigating the case and "trying to trace all the steps of Mr. Nelson," Hutson said. Nelson's death is similar to that of another man whose body was found March 9 in a burned car in a campground in Big Cottonwood Canyon. Both deaths are still being investigated as suspicious. Investigators have not found evidence suggesting foul play in either death, and there is no evidence they are connected, Hutson said.

Obituaries:
http://www.legacy.com/saltlaketribun...onID=125445190

http://obits.kutv.com/search/show_listing/6130

UID, Hurricane, Utah
http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2...EWS01/90402013

(snips)
A body was discovered inside of a burned out vehicle found on Smith's Mesa early today.

The vehicle's license plates were removed and its vehicle identification number scraped off.


http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12057077

Washington County sheriff's deputies are investigating a burned body found in an SUV near Hurricane on Thursday morning.
A rancher saw a red or maroon Kia sport utility vehicle in flames in the Smith's Mesa area about 6 a.m., said Washington County Undersheriff Jake Adams. The rancher left the isolated area and called police at 8:30 a.m.
(more at link)

[fran]

Thank you for the links SuziQ. I do NOT think the first two were suicide. Reading about both of these men, there's NO WAY they killed themselves.

Ok, I may be reaching here, but what is interesting is that BOTH men volunteered with youth.

The first young man, Lorin Fischer worked with homeless children at Volunteers of America. IMHO, LE NEEDS to go there and talk to everyone who had anything to do with this man. They also should check out every person that's been within those walls for as long as Lorin Fischer was involved there.........I could be wrong, of course, but..............................

FWIW, I found, in another case, that Volunteers of America use exCons, to give them a chance to rehabilitate. I don't think many people in the area they're located, across the U.S., are aware of WHO some of these volunteers are, or were in their previous life.

It'll be interesting to see who this third person is.

JMHO
fran

[oceanblueeyes]

I just don't think anyone would select this form of suicide.

Burning themselves up alive? Just being able to sit there being able to do that seem unrealistic to me.

If they deemed the first one suicide then maybe whomever is doing this knows they will just think the others are suicide.

I would think this method of suicide is extremely rare and already three have ocurred in a month? Very far fetched imo.

imoo

[SuziQ]

Fran, Thank you about the ex-con info. I had no idea. That is scary.

Oceanblueeyes, You and I feel the same way about this method of suicide and so many in a short period of time.

[fran]

I've been trying to find someone recently reported missing, even within the state, but no luck so far. I'll keep an eye on this one.

JMHO
fran

[fran]

The first two deaths were only 3 1/2 miles apart.
Notice to the third, almost a straight shot down the state.

Interesting,
fran


http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?wi...J0b3A9MCU3ZTA=

[SuziQ]

Originally Posted by fran

The first two deaths were only 3 1/2 miles apart.
Notice to the third, almost a straight shot down the state.

Interesting,
fran


http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?wi...J0b3A9MCU3ZTA=

I guess the locations I gave with their names are a bit misleading. I posted where they are from. The first one was at the Spruces Campground in Big Cottonwood Canyon. And the second one was near a place called Saltair by the Great Salt lake. I haven't mapped them, but my guess is they are about 25-35 miles apart. About a 45 minute drive.

Sorry about the confusion. What is interesting, is the first two vics lived not far from each other.

[SuziQ]

I edited the original posts to correctly reflect where the bodies were found.

Sorry about that Fran!

[SuziQ]

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2...NTPAGECAROUSEL

(snip)
Adams said the vehicle was about two miles up the fork that leads to the Kolob area.
"Someone saw the car (on fire) about 6 a.m., but it wasn't reported until about 8:30," Adams said.
As of Thursday, detectives were still at the scene trying to identify the body.
The vehicle had no license plates and investigators were trying to locate a readable vehicle identification number to determine ownership.
The vehicle was reportedly a red or maroon Kia Sportage, which Adams said is similar to a Jeep Wrangler.
The fire damage to the vehicle was extensive and deputies working with State Fire Marshall Todd Hohbein are treating the case as suspicious.
Adams said suicide by a vehicle fire is unusual, but not unprecedented

[SuziQ]

Dental records are being requested from Kentucky to help identify the burned body found after the vehicle fire Thursday morning.

Washington County Sheriff's Office Detective Nate Abbott said the body was burned so badly investigators were unable to determine its gender.
“The car gave us some really solid leads,” he said. (more at link)

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2.../90403009/1002

[colette]

The men could have been stangled or even stabbed then set on fire. If the fire was hot enough signs of murder might be destroyed.

[ginan69]

The victim found near Saltaire was my brother. Noone that knew him well thinks it was suicide. There was an eight hour period before he was found in the car where noone knows where he was. I cannot imagine Greg WANTING to die in such a painful way. He worked out and took very good care of himself. I hope they find out what happened in all three of these cases.

[Salem]

ginan69 - I am so sorry about your brother. Prayers to you and your family and all of Greg's friends.

Thank you for joining us here. I'm sure many of us have questions for you. I have written some below, BUT please do not feel you have to answer anything or even respond until you want too.

Do you recognize the name of the other victim? I have not read all the articles linked here, but if a picture was posted, did it look familiar to you at all? Or did any of the description in the Obituary ring any bells with you?

Salem

[waltzingmatilda]

ginan69, My sincerest condolences go out to you and your family for the loss of your dear brother. My prayers are with you all.

matilda

[TxBecca]

ginan69, I am so sorry to hear about your brother. My prayers are with you and your family.

[KY Sleuth]

The third incident in Hurricane is possibly a dear friend of mine. The vehicle has been identified and the parents notified. The plates were not on the car and the VIN number was scratched off. If the body is indeed my friend he is only 19 and a freshman at the University of Utah studying nuclear engineering. He would never commit suicide.

Things I have noticed regarding the 3 incidents are they are exactly 12 days apart; approximately 45 minutes apart from one another; and as stated in an earlier post in direct line with each other on the map.

I keep searching for more news reports but nothing has been posted.

[KY Sleuth]

He was not reported missing. His friends spoke with him on Wednesday and he was talking about going to a job interview on Thursday. His credit card was last used on Thursday morning right before the car was seen on fire.

[SuziQ]

ginan69, my heart and prayers go out to you and your family.

KY Sleuth, I was hoping that there was not a connection to the other cases since the vehicle was found in Southern Utah and the vic appeared to be from KY. But what you are telling me sounds like he could sadly and horribly be connected. ETA: University of Utah is in Salt lake....so that's geographically connected to the other cases.

Both of you, welcome to WS and I hope we can get some answers for you.

[SuziQ]

You know, if these are crimes that are connected, the remote locations of where the bodies were found, lead me to believe that there would have to be a second vehicle and second person involved.

[SuziQ]

Originally Posted by KY Sleuth

He was not reported missing. His friends spoke with him on Wednesday and he was talking about going to a job interview on Thursday. His credit card was last used on Thursday morning right before the car was seen on fire.

Do you know where the card was used and what for? I would give my right arm to see the surveillance tape.

[SuziQ]

It's a puzzling pattern of deaths: three people found incinerated in their cars, on March 9th, March 20th and April 2nd, in widely separated parts of Utah. Police investigators have suggested suicide, but some relatives insist it's a series of horrific murders.

The relatives have no concrete evidence to back up their suspicions, and they've learned nothing that connects the three victims. The family we spoke with has been at odds with the FLDS polygamy group, but they doubt that's a factor. The deaths were unusual and horrible. Three late-night vehicle fires so intense they obliterated evidence and identities. (More and video at link)

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=6069720

[SuziQ]

Just food for thought, another youth volunteer connection. Lorin's dad and mom are former FLDS. They started a youth org called Diversity. Curiously, when googling Lorin's name last week, I found alot of Lorin Fischer's with different middle initials that are on both sides of the fence with the FLDS issue. And the ones who left the cult are not well liked.

Another thing to note is the FLDS town of Colorado City is is also in Southern Utah where the last body was found. When the Diversity talks about exiling, it's actually on a dark road miles from nowhere.

CHILDREN OF DIVERSITY
aka “The Lost Boys"
The Diversity Foundation is currently assisting the young men (aka “Lost Boys”) and women who are former members of the polygamist community in southern Utah known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (“FLDS”)

Beginning in 2002 the FLDS church began exiling young men between the ages of 14 and 23 for infractions that were in violation of church tenets. These infractions could be talking to a girl, wearing a short sleeved t-shirt, listening to music or watching television. Young women who have exited the FLDS community are doing so because they seek to live in a monogamous society. Both men and women lack an education that is chronologically correct. While living in the FLDS community they might receive an education until the eighth grade at which time they begin to work for wages that are given as tithe to the FLDS church. (more at the below link)
http://www.smilesfordiversity.org/cod.php

[SuziQ]

If you google around with Dan Fischer, you'll find there is definitely hatred of him by the FLDS. I don't know if it has anything to do with anything. Just thought I would throw that tidbit out there for future reference if needed.

[Salem]

Have you seen any connection with Greg Nelson and the FLDS? Very interesting.

I have to question the intelligence of LE here - who would set themselves on fire? And 3 in one month, actually a matter of weeks. Not happening. Commen sense would tell you that.

And SusieQ - I have to agree that at a minimum another vehicle has to be involved. I suppose it could happen with out another person, but not without another vehicle. Given the shape of the evidence, I don't suppose the ME can tell if the victims were already deceased before the fires? If they could examine the lungs, they might be able to figure this out?

Salem

[SuziQ]

The car in Southern Utah was actually near the town of Virgin, which is about 12 miles east of Hurricane. Virgin is about half an hour or so away from Colorado City.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/2.../-1/NEWSFRONT2

(snip)
The unidentified remains were discovered inside a red Kia Sportage on
Smith’s Mesa Road near Virgin Thursday, and police have yet to release the
identity of the single body.
Incidents such as this are rare, said Lt. Don Hutson of the Salt Lake County
Sheriff’s Office, but his department is currently investigating two similar
suspicious deaths from last month.