17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[katydid23]

I think the prosecutor is doing the right thing not rushing to judgement. Sometimes it takes years for an arrest. I think they are probably looking to see if there were any surveillance cameras or additional witnesses. They also need lab work back the blood evidence, the victims medical findings. I think that within a month or so this will be put in front of a grand jury.

I agree. And , imo, this huge national protest is putting the DA in a very bad position. If they feel pressured by the public to arrest him BEFORE they have the tests and evidence back, it might hamper the case.

 

[LambChop]

I am always left with huge smile at those who refuse to play witch hunt, but want
the real information to come out, through fair investigation.
I love you guys :beats:


The story has reached a point where we are going in circles…and have to wait for a thorough investigation and hope for a fair analysis of it all.

I wonder if the voice analyzers have any authenticity since they came out on a weekend…I can’t wait for Monday to hear more.
(if I question the DA coming out on a rainy Sunday night to a shooting scene – you bet I will also question anything else that happens on a weekend, because it is not usual)

I cannot keep up with the threads. It is flying like the wind.

BBM: Maybe the overwhelming attendance at the gun shot brought them out. No one wants to see this get out of hand. In reality, I'm sure it took them a few days of listening to make their determination and submit their reports before OS wanted to announce them. jmo

 

[Sensei]

You've got nothing t be concerned about there... The event was scheduled a year ago, they do them about every 3 months. I was just merely adding commentary that this incident no doubt has concerned a great number of people to arm themselves. And that I had never seen such a big turnout at the event in over 5 years.


Those capable of critical thinking will understand it... As I said it gave me pause to think on the incident that occurred in Sanford. I think it's terrible that a young man lost his life but I also think it's terrible that a man had to take a life... What no one can thus far say with any certainty is that at that moment it was unjustified... Yet it seems a great number are suffering from Scotoma.

All this non-sense about shot in the back is rubbish. There has been way too many eyes who've seen the body at this point. If that had been the situation Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged on the spot. Not even the SPD could conceal that from being discovered. The Corner and later the Mortician would no doubt be aware of the entry wound area...

I don't think that Trayvon was shot in the back, but I do doubt the story that he was on top of GZ when he was shot....I cannot reconcile the unblemished state of GZ's shirt with a very close contact chest shot, I would not expect him to be covered in blood but there should be some spots of blood big enough for a person to see, even with the grainy camera. From what I have been able to find out, gunshot wounds splatter blood when they first hit.

Further, I have never believed that the screams on the 911 tape were GZ, it does not sound like his voice at all, and I have every reason to believe the test that has been published, which leads me to believe that is the sound of a young man who sees the gun, and knows that he is going to be shot and is trying to get away, if the voice analysis is correct it certainly does not substantiate the idea that GZ was under attack when he shot, and lastly, I do not believe that someone shouting and screaming for their life is going to simply STOP the minute they shoot their assailant....how did he know that one shot would stop him? In a life and death struggle you don't stop screaming until you are certain that you are no longer under attack, and I don't see that being the very instant that you shoot...IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Okay, I wasn't going to get into the voice analysist thing tonight because I wanted to do a little more research on these "experts", but I really need to know if they did this independently? Or were they hired by the State of Florida?

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't have a problem with normal people owning guns. I do have problem with people that are not normal having guns. George Zimmerman, imo, is not normal or stable and hasn't been for a long time.

Do you have to do any kind of mental exam before getting a license to have a gun?

 

[LambChop]

One of our wonderful members, I forget the username, brought up any tapes that may have been taken at 7-11. At first I was like, what would that have to do with what happened in the complex? Now that I think about it, I think everything leading up to the shooting that night is important.

I don't know how long 7-11's keep their tapes? I can only hope that the LE investigating this shooting had enough intelligence that when they heard Trayvon had gone to the store, that they immediately went and got the tapes.

Also, with the store being so close, that could have been the store Zimmerman was also heading to? I know that Zimmerman said he was on his way to the store, but I would like to rule out that he had already been to the store? Entrance gate cameras should show this too?

Does anyone know what building Zimmerman lived in? Does it show on that map what building he lives in?

When you look at the map he lives on the left side past the pool area. I won't put the address. So he was driving towards the clubhouse to turn left to go out the gate and he turned right to follow TM. jmo

 

[OneLove]

Imo, this tragic case has nothing to do with racial profiling. Nor do I think this was a hate crime. And yes, I did hear the racial slur in the 911 call. I simply do not feel that slur in conjunction with the unfolding of events, as I presently understand them (i.e., from listening to the 911 calls, link ), supports the contention that this tragedy was a hate crime as outlined in the "Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act" ( link ) That is, I do not think GZ targeted and proceeded to shoot Trayvon purely bc he was black.

I think instead, this is a case of a hotheaded, wanna-be cop, who, from my read, regularly harassed neighborhood residents ( link ) and made chronic nuisance calls to the SPD ( link ). Otherwise put, imnsho, this guy was a accident waiting to happen. Someone who was bound to shoot someone, anyone, sooner or later. The recent voice findings ( link ), imho, refutes GZ's claim that the shooting was an act of self defense. Which, again, supports my contention that this guy was a walking time-bomb.

Aside: I wish they would post all of GZ's 911 calls as well as any other voice recordings they might have of the guy, bc, imho, he def sounds intoxicated in this call. ( link ) And, in light of the number of calls he made over the past eight years, I cannot help but to wonder if there might be an underlying substance abuse issue, or possibly even some sort of brain injury, that might explain (not excuse, of course), his, imho, reckless behavior.

Wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Very good post with excellent embedded links. I had not yet read the one that notes the neighbors reporting GZ stalking them also and following them back to their homes. Creeeeeepy. This engenders a whole new batch of questions.

 

[LolaMoon08]

And, I've also always thought it was Trayvon screaming because it stopped immediately after the gunshot. I just could not understand how George was able to stop screaming for help when he was so severely injured and had to now get Trayvon's lifeless body off of his very injured body?

 

[RANCH]

Okay, I wasn't going to get into the voice analysist thing tonight because I wanted to do a little more research on these "experts", but I really need to know if they did this independently? Or were they hired by the State of Florida?

Looks like the Orlando Sentinel had Tom Owen do the tests.

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

ETA. I didn't see if the Orlando Sentinel paid him for this or not.

 

[Sensei]

I don't think GZ was in shock. He didn't have the right affect or tone when he was supposedly suspicious of Trayvon. I have wondered if when he had his hands on Trayvon after the shooting if he was looking for a weapon or just discovered all he had on him was the Skittles, Tea and phone, and that is why he was pacing with his hands on his head. I wonder if the police got samples of the blood that was supposedly on him at the scene. I am guessing they didn't. I can't believe that they would allow the EMTs to "clean him up" before doing that. According to a retired NYPD officer they didn't bag his hands and shoes either, which is always protocol in a shooting.

Thanks, I wasn't going to say it, but I will second that. I have seen a lot of people in shock, and he just does not appear to have the mannerisms of someone in shock...usually someone in shock you pretty much have to lead them around, and often they can't answer your questions...they don't turn their head much or raise and lower it. But again, that is only my experience and IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[m00c0w]

BBM: Maybe the overwhelming attendance at the gun shot brought them out. No one wants to see this get out of hand. In reality, I'm sure it took them a few days of listening to make their determination and submit their reports before OS wanted to announce them. jmo

I'm just really not sure how they can gauge/compare Zimmerman talking in a normal tone to him screaming. They appear to have valid credentials, so I'm don't think they'd put themselves out there like that if they weren't sure, but I just can't wrap my head around how screams can be compared to just talking. I sound nothing like how I talk when I scream. I dunno.

 

[angeleleven]

Justice with Judge Jeanine on Fox is discussing Trayvon's case now.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think that Trayvon was shot in the back, but I do doubt the story that he was on top of GZ when he was shot....I cannot reconcile the unblemished state of GZ's shirt with a very close contact chest shot, I would not expect him to be covered in blood but there should be some spots of blood big enough for a person to see, even with the grainy camera. From what I have been able to find out, gunshot wounds splatter blood when they first hit.

Further, I have never believed that the screams on the 911 tape were GZ, it does not sound like his voice at all, and I have every reason to believe the test that has been published, which leads me to believe that is the sound of a young man who sees the gun, and knows that he is going to be shot and is trying to get away, if the voice analysis is correct it certainly does not substantiate the idea that GZ was under attack when he shot, and lastly, I do not believe that someone shouting and screaming for their life is going to simply STOP the minute they shoot their assailant....how did he know that one shot would stop him? In a life and death struggle you don't stop screaming until you are certain that you are no longer under attack, and I don't see that being the very instant that you shoot...IMO JMHO and stuff.

I agree with you about the screaming. But I do have a lot of questions about who was sitting on top of whom. I have a hard time believing that GZ would be sitting on top of TM, and be in total control of the gun, and then just shoot him for no reason. He knows there are people looking out of windows and that LE is arriving any moment. WHY would he do that?

I think it is much more likely that during the struggle they were both wrestling over the gun. TM was probably screaming bloody murder because he saw the gun and was afraid for his life. But in that case he would be trying to grab it himself, imo.

 

[annalia]

Papa, I can't listen...Don't know IF or when I will ever be able to..Entirely too painful especially now knowing his life was going to be snuffed out within a few minutes......JMHO

It is gut wrenching, I can only imagine a parent's nightmare hearing that, knowing that was their child's last moments.

If these are Trayvon's screams ( I do believe that they are ), when GZ just came out and said that he was calling for help but no one came, without being questioned, he had no way to know that the actual cries and shot would be recorded. Did he say this because he thought at that time that it couldn't be disproven? He knew there were screams he would guess that others may have heard screams, but he thinks they'll never be able to prove that it wasn't him if he says that it was?

JMHO

 

[LolaMoon08]

Looks like the Orlando Sentinel had Tom Owen do the tests.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

ETA. I didn't see if the Orlando Sentinel paid him for this or not.

Interesting! It appears that he has been called to give his expert opinion for testimony in trials. Very, very interesting that they use this same technology for terrorists.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Looks like the Orlando Sentinel had Tom Owen do the tests.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

ETA. I didn't see if the Orlando Sentinel paid him for this or not.

I think they need to compare Trayvon's voice to be conclusive. They only tested Zimmerman's and got a 48% match. Whatever that means

 

[JBounds]

What racial slur on the 911 call? I've heard no racial slur on it and I've listened several times. At one point it sounds like he says punk and besides the audio is pretty poor to determine what was even said.

This whole ordeal reads like some Hollywood script that media is writing all the while helping to further eventual violence against GZ. Is this the 1800's where posses can form and take out someone and do anything they please? I hope not because if that does happen it will in fact be the media's fault. It will have set us back 150 years.

There's no reason to not believe GZ's story that he went back to his car after he hung up, since witness state he did. But to make for a more exciting story, GZ hunted down TM down and killed him in cold blood.

I'm not on GZ's side exactly, but I'm not on the media's side either. I'm on no witchhunt, but for facts. Someone died and GZ should have to do a some time over it. But I do not believe it was unless there is a reason otherwise. And tehre could be no one really knows but GZ himself and witness'

 

[LambChop]

I'm just really not sure how they can gauge/compare Zimmerman talking in a normal tone to him screaming. They appear to have valid credentials, so I'm don't think they'd put themselves out there like that if they weren't sure, but I just can't wrap my head around how screams can be compared to just talking. I sound nothing like how I talk when I scream. I dunno.

When they do a voice analysis it shows a pattern so a woman's screams would look different than a man's on the graphs. Very technical I'm assuming but I have seen some programs where they have done it and it is amazing what they can do. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm not sure why this "No Limit " thing is not being explained anywhere. I googled the phrase and discovered my suspicions were correct. It is the name of a Hip Hop group, apparently one that Trayvon liked. And if his parents were not aware of the Twitter account, I am not surprised. Trayvon just turned 17, did YOU share everything with YOUR parents when you were a teen??? I sure didn't!!!!

You want to see what I had as my screensaver for a long time... any guess who this is?

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/gallery/nonmetros.html

He's my favorite running back from the Miami Hurricanes. Doesn't he look mean?? :floorlaugh:

 

[RANCH]

Interesting! It appears that he has been called to give his expert opinion for testimony in trials. Very, very interesting that they use this same technology for terrorists.

If the Orlando Sentinel paid him for this, would that be a factor in using him in any potential trial?