17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[LinasK]

We have all used a racial slur even about our own, whatever we may be or wherever we may come from. It does not make one a racist.
IMO A racist displays hatefulness toward particular groups. This would be consistent, not a one slur… Which incidentally I did not hear, but listened.

I don't.

 

[stmarysmead]

Not when he calls them "*advertiser censored**ing C**ns" and "*advertiser censored**holes that always get away!" Those are George's exact words, not mine!!

The exact words he said are in dispute. And "assH&les" is a racially neutral word.

In any event...I would not be offended if that neighborhood being descrbed above...terrorized by white kids...referred to them as "crackers always get away!"...IMO, in both cases, the words used would be actually describing the criminal subset of each race...not our hard working friends of all skin hues.

But I do nnot believe that there is any proof of even that first word...only the second..which is "race-neutral."

 

[HiHater]

I am going by the 911 tapes. GZ reported to the dispatcher that Tray walked up to his car to check him out and ran after that. Of course, GZ could have made that whole story up too for some insane reason and Tray never walked up to his car.

GZ doesn't use the words "walked up to my car" though, he says that Trayvon is walking toward him. IMO that's a big difference.

 

[LambChop]

<modsnip>

I don't see how someone like GZ could make that decision to call based on what he had for information that night. jmo

 

[Chris_Texas]

Totally disagree with you, I believe George showed premeditation in his 911 call, and we know he used racial slurs- even his own brother admitted that! I think GZ will be arrested and charged with murder following the Grand Jury investigation!

I agree. I believe it is possible that this was premeditated. In my opinion the 911 call supports this conclusion.

 

[Concerned Papa]

No. Statistics are kind of my thing. ;D

If these numbers are accurate, it's like you have a bag of 8 jellybeans (representing the 8 crimes). You pull out 3 of them, and they're purple. You pull out one, and no one can determine the color or it's confusing somehow. What are the odds on the colors of the rest of the jellybeans?

Pretty overwhelming that they're going to be purple.

You have no cases of burglaries where it's clear anyone except an AA young man committed the crime, and 3 cases out of 8 where it's clear the suspects are AA men.

BBM

LOL, they're kinda my gig as well.

If every jelly bean in Sanford Florida was young, purple, and male you would be correct. However, purple jelly beans only make up a fraction of the available control group of jelly beans for our random bag make up:

Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 30.5%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12/1263650.html

Then you have to consider the further control requirement that not only must our jelly beans be purple but male as well and factor in that, of this 30.5% group of purple jelly beans, only slightly less than half are going to be male:

Female persons, percent, 2010 52.0%

Last but not least, we have to account for the final control requirement that our jelly beans must be not only purple and male, but young jelly beans as well:

Persons under 18 years, percent, 2010 26.0%

As you can see, when you factor in all control components for this random bag of jelly beans, the odds of the remaining 4 being young, purple male jelly beans are not so overwhelming at all.

 

[Chris_Texas]

BBM
Subject to interpretation.
I read it as it is said. WE DO NOT NEED you to do it that means they are not asking for this service at all.
It does not mean that it is not legal or that they can even begin to tell him what to do.

Yes, it is subjective.

However, the dispatcher's tone was clear. He wanted two things from Zimmerman, he wanted him to tell them if the kid did anything else, and he wanted him to stay in the car.

 

[HiHater]

IMO, this is an attempt to explain why Trayvon didn't make it home. Running, there would be no excuse - if he were walking fast, maybe, but still doubtful that he wouldn't make it home.

We will never know exactly what was said in the phone call. I do think the GF probably heard more - phones don't disconnect when the ear buds are pulled out and the phone is in your pocket. IMO, this might explain why she went into the hospital - imagine if she heard everything, how horrible. She may have been terrified of being asked about it, which would explain coming forward 3 weeks later.

Any number of things could cause the phone to disconnect. She may have hung up, thinking that he was no longer there. His battery could have died (would explain why the dad was getting straight to voicemail later on). He could have inadvertently hung up...etc etc.

There's no reason, at this point, to assume that the girlfriend heard any more than what has been reported.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[rotterdam]

GZ doesn't use the words "walked up to my car" though, he says that Trayvon is walking toward him. IMO that's a big difference.

Kind of splitting hairs? since GZ was in his car at that moment.
However, you are correct in the exact wording. But why the big difference?

 

[songline]

GZ was harassing Trayvon IMO which is illegal. Pls note that the stalking law does not say repeatedly harassing , just repeatedly following.

Florida Law:
"Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows or harasses another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083."
http://www.esia.net/State_Stalking_Laws.htm

I do not see a repeatedly going on in this case.
REPEATEDLY means that, not onley did GZ follow him on Feb 26th but for several times prior to that date.
I do not see maliciously going on in this case either.
GZ did not come out of his apartment and say OH great day to find a black man to shoot.

No GZ did not stalk TM but GZ was a bit overzelouse
He was not lettng anyone get away if they are up to something.

 

[Emeralgem]

What a normal Adult does when they stand up for a child that is being bullied is go have a discussion with the parents of the kids that are suspected bullies. What a normal Adult does is try to console the bullied child and try to find ways to help the child feel better about themself. A normal adult does not physically attack the kids by hosing them down every time they walk on a public side walk or public street that just happens to run past the adults home. I would in no way ever consider an adult attacking children a good thing, I would consider this psychotic behavior and if I were the children's parent I would be filing criminal charges against the adult that attacked my child. What it makes GZ is a bully imo.

As to your last line, no where in my post did I state that GZ is a cold blooded monster - those are your words, NOT mine.

If he were to turn a hose on one of my children for certain he would be facing criminal charges..
I'm seeing GZ more clearly now.. I view him as being very disturbed individual, with a short fuse. Definitely someone that does not know his boundaries...JMHO

 

[HiHater]

Kind of splitting hairs? since GZ was in his car at that moment.
However, you are correct in the exact wording. But why the big difference?

Because if I walk up to your car, I am intentionally approaching you. I make a conscious decision to go to your car.

If I walk toward you, I am neither approaching you nor am I necessarily doing anything intentional. I may just be walking in the direction I was already headed, and you happen to be parked there watching me.


I don't think it's splitting hairs, but we can agree to disagree?

JMO MOO IMO

 

[Allusonz]

I think the wording there is pretty important. Did the Sanford police give it or did the lawyer give him one which is like a lie detector test the Sanford police give.

I apologize for my tardiness in replying work does have a way of interrupting me.

You bring up a valid point and since I have been wary of press coverage in this case it is possible it was given by a defense expert.

I would tend to think not though.

First he only recently retained this lawyer and a second defense lawyer was only retained Tuesday I believe.

ETA link http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._defense-team-lawrence-o-donnell-wofl-channel

 

[uvamerica]

Letter allegedly written by gunman George Zimmerman's family states he is not racist

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/letter-allegedly-written-gunman-george-zimmermans-/nMKFD/

 

[Chris_Texas]

IMO, this is an attempt to explain why Trayvon didn't make it home. Running, there would be no excuse - if he were walking fast, maybe, but still doubtful that he wouldn't make it home.

We will never know exactly what was said in the phone call. I do think the GF probably heard more - phones don't disconnect when the ear buds are pulled out and the phone is in your pocket. IMO, this might explain why she went into the hospital - imagine if she heard everything, how horrible. She may have been terrified of being asked about it, which would explain coming forward 3 weeks later.

We know why Trayvon didn't make it home.

As for the rest, I don't blame rape on a woman's choice of clothing, I don't blame kids who are kidnapped when they stop to give the bad guy directions or help finding their lost puppy, and I don't blame Trayvon for not sprinting long enough and fast enough to evade his killer or satisfy his critics.

Perhaps not everyone shares my opinion, but there it is.

 

[rotterdam]

I do not see a repeatedly going on in this case.
REPEATEDLY means that, not onley did GZ follow him on Feb 26th but for several times prior to that date.
I do not see maliciously going on in this case either.
GZ did not come out of his apartment and say OH great day to find a black man to shoot.

No GZ did not stalk TM but GZ was a bit overzelouse
He was not lettng anyone get away if they are up to something.

I guess it is matter of interpretation. I do not read that harassment has to be a repeatedly occurrence in order to became an illegal activity unless "and/or" was used. But how do I know. English is not my native language anyway.

 

[katydid23]

What a normal Adult does when they stand up for a child that is being bullied is go have a discussion with the parents of the kids that are suspected bullies. What a normal Adult does is try to console the bullied child and try to find ways to help the child feel better about themself. A normal adult does not physically attack the kids by hosing them down every time they walk on a public side walk or public street that just happens to run past the adults home. I would in no way ever consider an adult attacking children a good thing, I would consider this psychotic behavior and if I were the children's parent I would be filing criminal charges against the adult that attacked my child. What it makes GZ is a bully imo.

As to your last line, no where in my post did I state that GZ is a cold blooded monster - those are your words, NOT mine.

Sorry, I did not mean to put those words in YOUR mouth. I was being sarcastic.

As I posted already, my own husband, who is 'normal', sprayed some middle school bullies with a hose and it was appropriate at the time, imo. They were about to egg our neighbors home again. And we DID already talk to their parents, who took their kids side and accused of us making up the accusations.

According to the article, GZ WAS the type who talked to kids and tried to boost their self esteem and console them. And i bet the chubby kid was 'consoled' by seeing the bullies being sprayed as they rode past on their bikes. ====================================

It seemed in character. A 16-year-old boy named Austin, who for a long time has mowed the lawn at the Zimmerman home in Lake Mary, described George Zimmerman as a role model for younger boys, often providing advice while throwing a football around or shooting hoops.


George would stick up for a chubby boy in the neighborhood who was being bullied, recalled Austin (who, like Stephanie, asked that his last name not be used). “And if George saw bullies walking by his house, he would pull out his hose and spray them down and tell them they were wasting their time and to go and do something else.”

 

[JeannaT]

BBM

LOL, they're kinda my gig as well.

If every jelly bean in Sanford Florida was young, purple, and male you would be correct. However, purple jelly beans only make up a fraction of the available control group of jelly beans for our random bag make up:



Then you have to consider the further control requirement that not only must our jelly beans be purple but male as well and factor in that, of this 30.5% group of purple jelly beans, only slightly less than half are going to be male:



Last but not least, we have to account for the final control requirement that our jelly beans must be not only purple and male, but young jelly beans as well:



As you can see, when you factor in all control components for this random bag of jelly beans, the odds of the remaining 4 being young, purple male jelly beans are not so overwhelming at all.

IMHO, jellybeans are very accurate. As many colors of jelly beans as there are, there are about that many demographics of people.

Old Black women, hispanic girls, young white men, old white men, young black men, old black men, etc., assign each a color.

And you have 8 in a bag. You pull out three, and they're ALL young black men (designated purple). That stat alone is so striking, considering all the demographics possible, that you can infer that the chances of the rest being purple is high.

 

[Inabsentia]

We have all used a racial slur even about our own, whatever we may be or wherever we may come from. It does not make one a racist.
IMO A racist displays hatefulness toward particular groups. This would be consistent, not a one slur&#8230; Which incidentally I did not hear, but listened.

I would just like to say, that while I admit I have referred to people who irked me as less than flattering epithets on occasion, I have NEVER used a racial slur. Using the word I am certain I heard George Zimmerman use on the 911 tape tells me that the odds of you being a racist are higher than someone who doesn't use racial slurs, and the odds of you being someone with whom I would not wish to associate are near 100%. moo

Edited to add; I mean the generic you, of course.

 

[songline]

IMO, this is an attempt to explain why Trayvon didn't make it home. Running, there would be no excuse - if he were walking fast, maybe, but still doubtful that he wouldn't make it home.

We will never know exactly what was said in the phone call. I do think the GF probably heard more - phones don't disconnect when the ear buds are pulled out and the phone is in your pocket. IMO, this might explain why she went into the hospital - imagine if she heard everything, how horrible. She may have been terrified of being asked about it, which would explain coming forward 3 weeks later.

:what::what::what:

I do not agree, 3 weeks to tell someone, that you may have heard you BF getting hurt, and you have not heard from him since.
NO I can not buy that at all. :nono:

IMHO TMs dad was the one who discovered that the GF was the last conversion that TM had.
IMHO - After the Martins called her they told her to go and tell the police about it.
JMO - Maybe she even got guidance what to say and what not to say.