17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

[LynnM]

I truly don't get it.

"hiding and being suspicious" and "looking suspicious" are synonymous to me.

Well they are not to me. At school, Trayvon was somewhere he was not supposed to be and he was concealing himself from view. That's objective behavior on which to base suspicions. Zimmerman's own account on the non-emergency line gives no objective reason to be suspicious of Trayvon. I find nothing suspicious in walking back to his father's fiance's townhouse and looking around and he gave no reason for saying that he's on drugs or something and later emphasizing that by saying "yes, he's messed up."

 

[mikeysmommom]

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.
Instead the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

Bolded by me
This tells a different story, that no one claimed Trayvon looked suspicious. So based on this, it is not the same as what Zimmerman did.

Yes the School police investigator did claim just that.
Seems to me TM looked the same way to GZ.

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.”

 

[JeannaT]

it sure does make you wonder about the spd and their interpretations of the law, doesnt it?

Yes, for sure. I thought it was outrageous for them to post that in light of all the events of the case. Incredibly ill-advised and overstepping.

 

[belle3]

Well, we can disagree on that all we want, that's not how the law is written. It's not illegal to approach someone who you find suspicious and ask them what they're doing.

Disagree on which part??? i never said that what he did was illegal. I said it was irresponsible and led to the death of another individual. You believe he acted responsibly?? Its not illegal, but its also not smart.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I didn't make up a story.

The POINT of my post, was how odd that two adults perceived Trayvon's demeanor as suspicious.

The rest of the details are again, hairs too fine for me to continue to split with you. And so I'm done. ;D

Yes, you did make up a story and it was not true. I don't care what point you were trying to make. You can't just make up facts like a "teacher" and the reason the backpack was searched.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think that goes without saying.

Like if that guy behind me in line weren't in the grocery store, he wouldn't have hit the back of my ankle with his cart.

I guess I am confused then because I read where Zimmerman following Trayvon did not cause Trayvon to get shot. However, that is the only way possible for Trayvon to have been shot that night. It's difficult to shoot someone that is not in front of you. If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck and waited for SPD to arrive, since they were on the way and he knew this, then there would have been no altercation at all, not words or fists or anything. I feel as if the blame is being put on Trayvon while Zimmerman is getting a free pass completely and I do not understand this at all. Zimmerman is the one with the gun, not Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one that followed Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one that knew SPD was on the way. How is it that Zimmerman gets a pass and Trayvon is the one that gets blamed for his own death?

MOO

 

[suzihawk]

You and I view this stream of events differently.

Would you say that a child running into the street caused their death, or would you say being hit by a car caused their death.

That's the analogy here.

I'd say the child running into the street didn't cause the death. It was being run over by the car that caused it.

Similarly, GZ believing Trayvon was acting suspiciously didn't cause Trayvon's death. GZ following Trayvon didn't cause his death.

The physical altercation (that no one impartial knows who started) caused the death. IMHO as always.

Following your overly simplistic analogy here...

Was the car speeding or being driven by a drunk driver?

Trayvon was killed by a bullet. That bullet came from the gun of a <mod snip> that was determined not to let another a$$**e get away.

JMO

 

[magnolia]

:waitasec: Why is this question being asked? Are you asking if the autopsy report has been released and you missed it and think another of us has seen it. No, it has not.

Thanks for the reply. No, I was not asking about the autopsy report.

 

[JeannaT]

I guess I am confused then because I read where Zimmerman following Trayvon did not cause Trayvon to get shot. However, that is the only way possible for Trayvon to have been shot that night. It's difficult to shoot someone that is not in front of you. If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck and waited for SPD to arrive, since they were on the way and he knew this, then there would have been no altercation at all, not words or fists or anything. I feel as if the blame is being put on Trayvon while Zimmerman is getting a free pass completely and I do not understand this at all. Zimmerman is the one with the gun, not Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one that followed Trayvon. Zimmerman is the one that knew SPD was on the way. How is it that Zimmerman gets a pass and Trayvon is the one that gets blamed for his own death?

MOO

It's a perspective of what caused what here, and I think reasonable people can disagree.

Same with the analogy of the child getting killed by being run over. You can disagree, and be reasonable, that it was his running into the street that caused it, or you can be reasonable in a perspective that it was the car running over him that killed him.

You can say Trayvon is dead because GZ followed him, or you can say Trayvon is dead because a physical altercation started, which may very well have been begun by Travyon.

Phrasing it differently, and continuing to state that if GZ had stayed in his car Trayvon wouldn't be dead won't change the perspective of those who believe (and the law is on our side) that it's not a crime to follow someone and he was within the law to do that.

At some point here, we're going to have to decide that each perspective is valid, it just depends on how you view the world and causal relationships.

 

[JeannaT]

Following your overly simplistic analogy here...

Was the car speeding or being driven by a drunk driver?

Trayvon was killed by a bullet. That bullet came from the gun of a zealot that was determined not to let another a$$**e get away.

JMO

The car was being driving by someone who was not disobeying any laws.

 

[belle3]

And under SYG law, Zimmerman could even start the fight (not saying he did) and then use deadly force if he tried to escape but could not.
And since he claims he was on the ground getting beat up then he might not have been able to escape.
Prosecution will have to disprove his version of events beyond a reasonable doubt for them to get a conviction.
And as far as I can tell I have reasonable doubt a plenty.

well if thats the case, then this law really, really sucks. lol!

 

[mikeysmommom]

Don't you love how the screwdriver was described as a "burglary tool"?

"Honey, where is our Phillips burglary tool? I need to change a light switch plate."

Sometimes a screwdriver comes in handy during a burglary, but not all screwdrivers are guilty.

My white 18 yr old son had a toolkit in his car trunk,Police stopped him found the tools in his trunk and he was charged with having burglary tools.He had to fight it in court.He was not doing anything wrong just driving.

 

[Karmady]

It is also not illegal to be a 17 year old male walking home in the rain with your hoodie up talking on the phone with your girlfriend and looking around you. Nor is it illegal to turn around and ask why someone is following you. However, apparently it is against the law to stalk someone and ask questions/demand answers........after all the SPD threatened to arrest anyone that did that to employees of the SPD.

MOO

The SPD said this behavior had happened, and if it continued to happen, there would or could be arrests. Imo, that is completely consistent with the requirement that stalking and harassment be repetitive in nature. Merely following someone and asking them a question or even demanding an answer is not illegal so long as the words used do not, themselves, violate the law. jmo

 

[octobermoon]

A physical altercation that would never had happened had a responsible person acted in a reasonable way, and never approached such a suspicious individual. All imo

This is so true.

IMO JMO MOO

 

[mikeysmommom]

IMO It should not take very long for GZ to go before a judge to ask charges be dismissed.Since the law was written so people did not have to be jailed and have huge legal bills if in fact they were justified in shooting.Hopefully it will be soon and then maybe we will have soon real facts in this case instead of just a lot of media hype.JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 28, 2012
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: PIO@SANFORDFL.GOV
Sanford, Fla &#8211; March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media
refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as
private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were
followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours.
Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7735099&postcount=958"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9[/ame]

 

[Karmady]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MARCH 28, 2012
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: PIO@SANFORDFL.GOV
Sanford, Fla – March 28, 2012 -- The City of Sanford kindly requests that members of the media
refrain from approaching, phoning or emailing city employees when they are in their roles as
private citizens. It has come to light that there have been a few incidents where city staff were
followed and approached at their home or in settings outside of working hours.
Law enforcement officials will not hesitate to make an arrest for stalking.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9

yes, that's it. Thanks

 

[RANCH]

The website that I've been using to look up Florida statutes is down right now.

Here's a link to the Florida Senate site that's working.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011

 

[gxm]

So you are going to argue with an elected official about this? I mean, seriously, even the authors of the bill itself says it doesn't apply in this case as well as the governor who signed the bill into law.


~jmo~

IMO, the politicians are doing a lot of back and fill. They wrote and signed bad legislation that is allowing people to get away with murder. IMO, of course they are going to say it doesn't apply but if you read about the tragic cases of others who have used this defense successfully, it becomes clear that they created a law that they are trying now trying to back away from. Cases like TM's must be taken into account and the law must be either revised or repealed, or there will continue to be more such tragedies.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[grammieto5]

I wondered if since there was no arrest in this case, where would the evidence come from for GZ complaints of abuse. Yesterday I learned there will be evidence from the autopsy of Trayvon (thank you again AZ) I'm very happy to learn there will be evidence from the autopsy of Trayvon. I plan to do some research on the SYG law, it's very interesting, as is this case. If it does go to trial I sure hope it does not take three years.