17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

[Nova]

heres what i wonder...if after the defense receives its first set of discovery , can they change their defense strategy and forgo the whole stand your ground defense? and if they do, what other defense could they claim?

Yes, they can change their strategy, but it's hard to imagine they will.

It's too late to claim GZ didn't shoot TM.

I suppose they could switch to some sort of insanity defense, but those almost never work nowadays.

 

[i.b.nora]

Walking to the next street to get a house number is just patently absurd. George is a coward, imo.

I think George ran around the first set of houses on Twin Trees, cut through inbetween that set and the next set, and accosted Trayvon (who was turned around looking north for signs of George) on the sidewalk by sneaking up behind him and pulling on Trayvon's arm or the hood of his sweatshirt with his gun already drawn.

Similar to one of Concerned Poppa's theories, but I don't think George went all the way around to Retreat View Circle, I think he cut through from Twin Trees Lane.

Anyhow, that's what I think, and its just my opinion.

 

[Nova]

welll then, if it does match, then i would think the sa overcharged. But im not sure how the evidence from trayvons autopsy would help exonerate gz. Evidence of gzs injuries, i believe would help. If there are signs of a struggle on trayvons body it would only prove that an altercation did happen. i could be missing something though??

I believe in some cases a distinction can be made between offensive and defensive injuries which might shed light on what happened during the altercation.

 

[Nova]

I was going to get on my treadmill and time it out... give me a rough estimate on the number I need for 317 feet.... because I was going to get on and count 317 steps! Math is not my thing.

For the average person, one step is approximately 2.5 feet.

http://www.thewalkingsite.com/10000steps.html


So if you walked 500 steps, that was roughly 1,250 feet or almost a quarter of a mile. Much farther than the distances covered by GZ on foot that night.

 

[Nova]

I agree, 1 minute, more or less.

Notice the real time counter on the 911 snips? George got out of his truck and started the 317' walk at [2:08] run time or 07:11:43 pm real time.

Am I wrong or isn't a minute later [3:08] run time or 07:12:43 pm real time?

George was still on the phone with the 911 dispatcher until [4:07] run time or 07:13:41 pm real time.

How exactly was Trayvon supposed to be beating his azz before he ever got off the phone with 911?

Exactly. And why didn't he report the address he was allegedly getting for the dispatcher? They were still on the phone at the time GZ supposedly got to the other street.

 

[Kimster]

Tonight on WEBSLEUTHS RADIO we'll discuss the Trayvon Martin case
with Sheryl McCollum of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.

I'll be opening the chat room in about 15 minutes!!!
Click on the link in my signature line to join in!​

 

[Nova]

BBM
Wasn't it during this time that Trayvon was trying to elude the man who was watching him? His girlfriend said that he felt that he had lost him and he would walk fast but not run.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T4tOVdWNnJe

Perhaps. But wasn't it also reported that TM told his gf he had lost GZ? (Most of us assume that was when TM rounded the corner on the sidewalk in between buildings.)

So imo, he had shrugged off the stranger who was staring at him and was focussed on his girl again. Headed home, but in no hurry to get there and end the call.

This makes perfect sense to me. If somebody is staring at me from a parked car and I leave the street and his field of vision, I'm not likely to assume that same person will leave his car and pursue me. (I'm speaking as a man of roughly the same height as TM. I'm sure the reality is different for women.)

 

[Nova]

IDK, I'm shaking my head, not only at their story, but at SPD for buying it!

I'd be willing to bet Barney Fife would've seen through this bs.

This is TOTAL SPECULATION on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if the SPD didn't just buy the story, but helped to create it. LE seemed to be assuming TM was indeed up to no good and I can imagine them being happy to help GZ construct a story to fulfill SYG requirements.

This wouldn't necessarily involve saying, "OK, you need to lie, George, and here's the lie you need to tell." It would be easy to make comments like, "Well, I hope for your sake you were looking for an address or something rather than following the kid."

Again, the above is mere SPECULATION.

 

[RANCH]

Perhaps. But wasn't it also reported that TM told his gf he had lost GZ? (Most of us assume that was when TM rounded the corner on the sidewalk in between buildings.)

So imo, he had shrugged off the stranger who was staring at him and was focussed on his girl again. Headed home, but in no hurry to get there and end the call.

This makes perfect sense to me. If somebody is staring at me from a parked car and I leave the street and his field of vision, I'm not likely to assume that same person will leave his car and pursue me. (I'm speaking as a man of roughly the same height as TM. I'm sure the reality is different for women.)

BBM
Yes, that's what I said in my post. Trayvon apparently told his girlfriend he was going to "walk fast" after he lost the man who was following him. I don't consider that dawdling. JMO.

 

[Adrienne37]

Hey Papa - have we told you lately how much we love you? You are awesome with all your research and conclusions! I wish Angela Corey had you on her staff to help put Zimmerman behind bars for a really long time!!

 

[csziggy]

This is TOTAL SPECULATION on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if the SPD didn't just buy the story, but helped to create it. LE seemed to be assuming TM was indeed up to no good and I can imagine them being happy to help GZ construct a story to fulfill SYG requirements.

This wouldn't necessarily involve saying, "OK, you need to lie, George, and here's the lie you need to tell." It would be easy to make comments like, "Well, I hope for your sake you were looking for an address or something rather than following the kid."

Again, the above is mere SPECULATION.

Remember, one member here posted the other day that Officer Smith who was the first on scene had been a responder to many of GZ's previous calls. So they knew each other. Smith was the one who noted GZ's injuries and the wet jacket with grass in his report. The other officer, Ayalla, did not make note of those things.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Steft50]

Was not difficult to find. 1 search that took .08 seconds according to the search thingy that comes up. lol

I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp. :lol:

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/trayvon-martin-s-girlfriend-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

 

[pcrum12]

Sorry, Reader, but almost all sources agree that a "justifiable homicide" claim (SYG in slightly different wording) remains available to the defendant even if he fails to meet his burden in the special SYG hearing.

ETA here's a good link from the AP:

http://www.newser.com/article/d9u4t...n-legal-edge-data-unclear-on-laws-effect.html


Unfortunately, it does not address my disagreement with jjenny as to who has the burden of proof once "justifiable homicide" is raised at trial.

I found this: http://sharenews.com/the-truth-about-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/

 

[csziggy]

Duplicate

 

[grandmaj]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168920&page=5

I have posted a thorough review of the allegation that the girl waited 3 weeks to make any report. See the post above.

The Moderators have given much leeway to discuss this allegation. At this point it is time to move on because the MSM facts, do not back up the allegation.

We are asking that you treat this child as a victim, not make wild accusations about her or her motivations unless you can back it up. You can question the truth in what she is saying and you can discuss how it may look or be challenged in court. But the personal characterizations and discussions about this minor are not allowed. She is a victim.

:bump:

 

[rossva]

Well we know the SPD still has George Zimmermans weapon, so I would assume they didn't just discard any evidence they collected that night.

Exactly! If there is no arrest would they bother to preserve any evidence? What if the only evidence is from Trayvon's autoposy and that evidence does not match what GZ says happened?

 

[rhornsby]

I read that article also, but I believe him on his own record. Apparently they got some wrong information.

The CBS article took creative license with what I said about my stand your ground cases. I told him I have filed a Motion to Dismiss based upon the Stand Your Ground law in about 15 cases.

I then told him that of those 15, three went to a hearing and I won. I said I never had a full blown hearing on the other cases because they were dismissed for other reasons; such as the witnesses did not show, the state conceded, etc.

He responded, so you won them all then. I said, if you want to look at it that way, I guess I did.

 

[grammieto5]

Well we know the SPD still has George Zimmermans weapon, so I would assume they didn't just discard any evidence they collected that night.

I just wonder other than the gun if evidence was taken. It would be horrible to know you're in the right and have no evidence to help prove it.

 

[Reader]

The CBS article took creative license with what I said about my stand your ground cases. I told him I have filed a Motion to Dismiss based upon the Stand Your Ground law in about 15 cases.

I then told him that of those 15, three went to a hearing and I won. I said I never had a full blown hearing on the other cases because they were dismissed for other reasons; such as the witnesses did not show, the state conceded, etc.

He responded, so you won them all then. I said, if you want to look at it that way, I guess I did.

Thank you, Mr. Hornsby, for getting that information cleared up!

 

[rossva]

Generally speaking, most people walk at 2.5 to 3 miles per hour. Typically 4 MPH is considered a brisk walk, and at about 6 MPH, you're jogging. Over a long distance (e.g., a marathon) 12 MPH is a world-record pace.

vhttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_does_a_human_walk

Good question. I think we're not the only ones gonna be asking that.

Now, let me ask you one. How long do you think it should take to walk 317 feet?