2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[RANCH]

Speaking as an RN who understands "bony prominences" this picture was the most horrific and despicable and single piece of evil evidence of the whole trial...will never get it out of my mind (and neither does Cindy)

I don't think that this particular image was introduced as evidence at trial. This is an WS exclusive if I remember correctly. MOO

 

[rose222]

My God! I can even see her little fingers. :tears:

I'll never be able to understand the "why" and the "how". I mean, I LOGICALLY understand in my head; I know the facts of the case. But in my heart, I will never be able to wrap my head around this, how anyone, let alone a child's own mother, can do something like this.

Her hands seem as though they are tied with tape or something. Is that right?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

That pic is why I think the evil deed was done in the car. A dead person cannot assume the fetal position. And KC would have no need to pose her that way or any particular way she would just roll her in a blanket and place her in a bag. rigor would have set in and she would be straight as a board. I think she spent 1 or two days lying in the fetal position leaking fluids before KC moved her.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Her hands seem as though they are tied with tape or something. Is that right?

We will never know, but there was an additional piece of duct tape at the site that has not been explained AFAIK. Lots theorized that's what it had been used for. :furious:

 

[rose222]

That pic is why I think the evil deed was done in the car. A dead person cannot assume the fetal position. And KC would have no need to pose her that way or any particular way she would just roll her in a blanket and place her in a bag. rigor would have set in and she would be straight as a board. I think she spent 1 or two days lying in the fetal position leaking fluids before KC moved her.

Yes. I see your point. Casey could have used a bag or a pillow to suffocate Caylee but she used the duct-tape. It's like KC just duct-taped Caylee (including hands) and just put in her trunk while alive. She suffocated and died in there it seems. My heart just breaks...

 

[joypath]

:truce: There has been a nagging thought that I'm tossing out....the car seat as a "semi-restraint".

:twocents: How absolutely perfect to convince a hesitant, typical active almost 3 year old child with a budding personality an obvious BRAIN that a journey to ANYWHERE possibly could/would terminate in the arms of CA or even GA at his new job rather than being consistently IGNORED/BELITTLED/SCREAMED AT/?HIT? (yeah, no proof ...but...)/"WHATEVERED" by the egg donor, the "responsible guardian", FCA! (ummm, jury...YEAH, THE mother was THE CAREGIVER as recognized by LAW! you could have AT LEAST "guiltified" her on THAT charge!) :banghead::banghead:
:rocker: OK, back to the car seat!
:waitasec: On it's side, tip it over (yeah, heavy as he77!) & remove a child as she is within the up to 5 minutes to death. BUT remember that it takes about 3 minutes of totally restricted air support to reach LOC, prior to that your victim can & most likely will be combative so that extra tape from the recovery scene & the car seat...hand & some mobility restraint.

:blushing: I'm taking some of my hypothesis from the foot position, drawing downward, rather like that one might observe from a child unencumbered by a footrest (not sure if the model of car seat FCA had was as designed).



PHILOSOPHY ALERT TO FOLLOW: AVOID AS NEEDED!!!!!!



lease:lease:lease:I WISH this STAIN had been introduced BUT as with the computer information............ Given this particular jury, in my head & heart, I remain convinced that NOTHING would have changed.
:moo::moo::moo:
What "gets" me thru my day/life is a belief in a greater Power that has a Plan, we mortals must do our best AT THE MOMENT IN TIME and LEARN from our collective "oopses" to avoid the SAME errors or permutations thereof!

 

[MaryAnn]

That pic is why I think the evil deed was done in the car. A dead person cannot assume the fetal position. And KC would have no need to pose her that way or any particular way she would just roll her in a blanket and place her in a bag. rigor would have set in and she would be straight as a board. I think she spent 1 or two days lying in the fetal position leaking fluids before KC moved her.

Makes sense! Can I say "I hate FCA" because I do! Everytime I think of what she did and her attitude. Not one singe ounce of remorse, just blame blame blame on everyone else while destroying the lives of everyone around her after killing her beautiful baby girl. Plus destroying the one person who IMO was the only one who stuck up for Caylee. If it wasn't for George there might not have even been a trial. It was his testimony at the GJ hearing that sealed her fate. Too bad he got weak at the end and buckled and gave in to CA. I'm sure JB kept telling him if he didn't do this she'd get the DP, know all the time it was a plot to blame him. Now I'm anxious to see the movie. I hope they portrayed George in a good light.

 

[Harmony 2]

FYI- The article is about the body farm and is very informative. It explains in the following paragraph about the volatile fatty acids and how they are used to determine post mortem interval. The article is graphic and not for the squeamish...

Meanwhile, the techniques for retracing the evolution of a murder are getting ever more refined. Take soil samples. As bodies decompose, they leak five fatty acids into the ground beneath them. Each day after death, the various profiles of these acids will vary. Analysis of them can reveal the time of death, as well as pinpoint exactly how long any given body has been lying in a particular place. The soil can also reveal the presence of a corpse, even if the body itself has been removed or destroyed. The ''stain'' left by a body's volatile acids, which also suppresses plant life around it, can last for up to two years, leaving a kind of phantom fingerprint in the earth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/03/m...ad-men-talking.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

http://bit.ly/XwgBfo

 

[deca]

Possible fetal position in trunk explanation:

It could be totally possible that Caylee was killed outside the trunk. Then, Casey picked her up "carrying her over the threshold style" (forearm under Caylee's knees and other forearm under neck/shoulders) to set her inside the trunk.

I often carry my kids that way to lay them down on their beds. When you set them down, they are automatically in a position close to a fetal position with their knees up and bent towards chest.

Carrying her this way would also make sense in my eyes, because Casey- with no maternal instinct or sorrow over her baby's death- wouldn't want to carry her baby style (baby's chest against yours with babys head on your shoulder) when she was (in her mind) just carrying an icky dead thing.

That being said, I am on the fence whether Caylee was dead before and after placement.

 

[Roxy Dog]

Possible fetal position in trunk explanation:

It could be totally possible that Caylee was killed outside the trunk. Then, Casey picked her up "carrying her over the threshold style" (forearm under Caylee's knees and other forearm under neck/shoulders) to set her inside the trunk.

I often carry my kids that way to lay them down on their beds. When you set them down, they are automatically in a position close to a fetal position with their knees up and bent towards chest.

Carrying her this way would also make sense in my eyes, because Casey- with no maternal instinct or sorrow over her baby's death- wouldn't want to carry her baby style (baby's chest against yours with babys head on your shoulder) when she was (in her mind) just carrying an icky dead thing.

That being said, I am on the fence whether Caylee was dead before and after placement.

I totally agree. The image on the trunk liner does look like a semi-fetal position but it also looks like the body wasn't lying on its side but sort of halfway between being on its side and being face-down. I think Caylee was already dead, or at least unconscious, when placed in the trunk in this position. It, to me, looks like this would be the position of the body if she was carried by FCA as you described, and then just kind of "dumped" into the trunk without much care or gentleness. It wasn't like she was holding and placing something loved and dear to her, but more like "Ew, I really need to kid rid of this".

 

[eve80]

I totally agree. The image on the trunk liner does look like a semi-fetal position but it also looks like the body wasn't lying on its side but sort of halfway between being on its side and being face-down. I think Caylee was already dead, or at least unconscious, when placed in the trunk in this position. It, to me, looks like this would be the position of the body if she was carried by FCA as you described, and then just kind of "dumped" into the trunk without much care or gentleness. It wasn't like she was holding and placing something loved and dear to her, but more like "Ew, I really need to kid rid of this".

This would also mean that the "bagging" didn't happen until 2.6 days later. Right? Because with the body in bags the fluids wouldn't cause this stain. Unless she was placed in the cloth laundry bag only. To me this would really mean KC didn't know what to do with the body. It would also explain why the disposal happened so close to home and so carelessly - she was really running out of options. Smell was getting worse, body was leaking, etc. I'm sorry, this is not going to be nice - but that would also suggest that while "bagging" KC got pretty dirty!!! This is sooo gross!!!

 

[FLmom777]

This would also mean that the "bagging" didn't happen until 2.6 days later. Right? Because with the body in bags the fluids wouldn't cause this stain. Unless she was placed in the cloth laundry bag only. To me this would really mean KC didn't know what to do with the body. It would also explain why the disposal happened so close to home and so carelessly - she was really running out of options. Smell was getting worse, body was leaking, etc. I'm sorry, this is not going to be nice - but that would also suggest that while "bagging" KC got pretty dirty!!! This is sooo gross!!!

What day did she go take a shower at Jesse's?

 

[zippitydoda]

What day did she go take a shower at Jesse's?

June 30th I believe, the same day she drove by the Amscot lot, where she saw that the car she ditched on the 27th was now gone.

 

[eve80]

June 30th I believe, the same day she drove by the Amscot lot, where she saw that the car she ditched on the 27th was now gone.

Too funny, the same thought crossed my mind. But that's a bit too late.

 

[Tulessa]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see stains that are in the shape of a child's body in that trunk. You can DRAW around anything and make it look like most anything you want to. If the prosecution had this evidence, (which they did) why didn't they draw around it and show it to the jury and say "see, this is an image in the stain of a child's body"? They didn't. It's like looking at clouds in the sky or the moon and making out all kinds of things. I always see a rabbit in the moon, not a man, and if you stare at it long enough the images are numerous. JMO

To me, this couldn't be any plainer that if some one had taken Caylee's pic in the trunk, Respectfully, IMO tho

 

[OEJ]

I resisted the notion for a long time that the stain in the trunk resembled the outline of a child, but after awhile, it's impossible not to see it. All of the heaviest staining is where you would expect it to be if it really were a body outline.

It looks to me like Caylee was laying on her arm and hand. Her position looks to me like she was already dead or unconscious when placed in the trunk.

 

[mtnmom1963]

Looked at the picture again today and wished I hadnt because now Im thinking I see rope or thin cord crossing her body in an X pattern starting at her forearm above the elbow and crossing down her chest and then across her lower forearm (same arm) crossing up to her other shoulder. Was there any evidence found that could be used for tieing?