2010.06.13 Kyron's case turns to Criminal investigation-Why?

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I thought it had something to do with searching people's property?? In the early stages, they made sure to call it a missing and endangered child so that not only did they not need a search warrant to check property in and around Skyline but they also were not interested in prosecuting people for growing illegal plants if you get my drift. Once they've exhausted those searches it switched over to a criminal case and I think from that point on they needed a warrant to search unless given permisison. Just guessing...don't know this as fact! ;) I think they also obtain different funding and resources with each stage of the case. JMO
 
I definitely don't think they found his body, or Kaine and Desiree wouldn't still be in the media begging for his return. That would be beyond cruel.
Maybe his glasses, or a shoe or part of his clothing was found, and they're just managing to keep it quiet... although I can't see why something like that could be kept from the media for this long.
BeanE, I tend to agree with you... I don't think something necessarily had to happen for them to declare it a criminal investigation. Maybe it was just the suspicions they had of Terri all piling up, and they put two and two together. Because if they determined he didn't wander off on his own, then anything else that happened to him would be a criminal act.
 
I wonder when they talked to the LS for the first time.
 
I tend to think that in reality they were always searching for his body...that they suspected he was deceased soon after they began interviews and put up a good search effort, hoping he was in the near vicinity, then determined after about 9 days, that he might not be and proceeded onto the criminal part.
 
Pressure, politics and catching Terri doing the CYA dance, and that my friends is why they decided to call the case criminal.
 
Donjeta said:
I wonder when they talked to the LS for the first time.
Click to expand...
I would think it would be a few days before Kaine left with the Baby. Was that the 26th of June, BeanE will know.
 
I don't live in this area, but I am seeing a similar "trend" around the country... elections are coming up. People want to be shown confidence, leadership, people want to be controlled (or at least the environments we live in.) I think if LE didn't say this was a criminal investigation the way they did, and with what timing, some peoples jobs would be on the line. As we all know, the economy is bad and people will do about JUST ANYTHING to keep their jobs.

I honestly think this case stopped being about Kyron the moment that Terri became "suspect."
JMO.
 
cluciano63 said:
I tend to think that in reality they were always searching for his body...that they suspected he was deceased soon after they began interviews and put up a good search effort, hoping he was in the near vicinity, then determined after about 9 days, that he might not be and proceeded onto the criminal part.
Click to expand...

I do agree that le would never have been surprised if they found a dead kyron.

but..... i believe le was conducting a missing child case, from the start and at the same time they were conducting a criminal case. starting from the phone call telling them of kyron's disappearance.

when the Portland le called in other groups to help them, they had people that were searchers and people that were investigators. The search people would have to have an end date - i believe they had the end date told to them before they even started. the investigative groups could help the portland cops and the da direct their investigative end and they would also know their end date.

I believe these groups were told that the end date was Sunday June 13 and I said these words before it happened. Not saying I'm right - just saying I thought something similar on june 13th.


here is what i wrote on another one of our thread on june 13th

today may just be the deadline that le gave themselves before they scaled back searches and called this thing a criminal investigation. sort of a natural progression thing. remember a few days ago when gates said something about "hoping this thing being would be wrapped up by the end of the week"? just a thought.
 
In one of the pressers I believe they gave a point on how many days it was expected a child could reasonably survive. However I don't know if this time corresponded with that estimate and that was the reason for the change to a criminal investigation?
 
Isn't the natural progression SAR, recovery, then POSSIBLY criminal investigation?

I mean, it seems when someone goes missing and there is no criminal intent imagined, the next step is recovery.

But, I have not WS'd for long, so I may be completely wrong...
 
I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
So which is the true story of how it happened?

But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Living in southern California and having watched the investigation for three missing girls--Danielle Van Dam, Amber Dubois, and Chelsea King--it appears that without some evidence of the young person (sightings, telephone response, etc.) the search very quickly becomes a kidnapping investigation.

After the family members were cleared in these cases (lie detector tests, etc.) and the child was not located (within 1-2 days) the criminal investigation began. The exception was Amber Dubois's case in which there was a telephone ping from her cell the day following her disappearance and erroneous sightings of her by teen "acquaintances" and the public.

I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary in the change in the KyH case. It was called a "criminal" investigation because to LE KyH did not have the means or capabilities to "disappear" on his own. They had searched to obvious places without finding a trace of him. His family was interviewed and given LD tests. Therefore, LE had to change the status of the case to enlarge the search and continue the the investigation.

Regardless of the results of TH's LD test, IMO, LE would have been forced to reclassify the case on day 3 or 4 in order to continue actively searching for KyH.
 
SmoothOperator said:
I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
So which is the true story of how it happened?

But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Smooth, a special Thank you, I have said this over and over, as I think you also have, can't be said enough. can't see how it can be argued. Thank You, Thank You!
 
SmoothOperator said:
I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Bravo, SO!

ETA: Oops! And apparently you, too, Jo!
 
Jo in Calif said:
I would think it would be a few days before Kaine left with the Baby. Was that the 26th of June, BeanE will know.
Click to expand...

Yes, he left on the 26th. If you watch the interviews of Kaine on the 25th, in the order he did them, there seems to be a change, a shift, both in how he looks, and in how he talks. I rarely get into how people look/talk, but this did stand out to me, and I think LE may have talked to him to some extent on this date. Because he said he had 15 minutes to pack and get out though, I don't think they hit him with the big whammy stick until the 26th.
 
Dee10 said:
In one of the pressers I believe they gave a point on how many days it was expected a child could reasonably survive. However I don't know if this time corresponded with that estimate and that was the reason for the change to a criminal investigation?
Click to expand...

It was Gates, in a Q&A, in response to a reporter's question. He said something like 'we've had people survive for 2 weeks'.

I have 10 days stuck in my head, but can't remember where that came from. It seems I remember some of us looked up other cases of children of similar age. It *might* have come from Nadia's case, where LE was more open about needing to find her before that time in which she could survive ran out.
 
I would be very curious to know if the date they announced it was now a criminal investigation coincided with the time when they learned about an alleged mfh plot from the landscaper.
 
I apologise. The timeline on the Hinky Meter isn't the one I was thinking of when I posted yesterday. The one I was thinking of covers the whole case, and isn't on a linkable site. I got the two confused. The one on the Hinky Meter covers only June 4.
 
Wasn’t it On the fifth day of the search, (June 9th) ...

at the news conference by Skyline Elementary Principal Ben Keefer,

who said he couldn't comment on "an ongoing criminal investigation."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23834239/detail.html


Then LE stopped the news conference abruptly....:waitasec:

Also to add, the FBI's , BAU team was called in on the 7th of June, No way would they be called in for a boy who had wondered away from school.
 
Quick and dirty. Needs more, but it's a start.

Fri June 4 - Kyron goes missing


Sat June 5 - Kaine and Terri questioned by LE


Sun June 6 - Kaine questioned by LE
- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Mon June 7
- Terri takes Poly #1
- FBI arrives on scene
- Kaine questioned by LE
- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Tue June 8
- Kaine questioned by LE
- Kaine and Desiree take Poly
- Ben Keefer, principal of Skyline school, slips and says it's a criminal investigation at a presser and Gates cuts him off
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5563643&postcount=14"]View Single Post - Case Review #1: Thread #4: LE Press Conferences & Release: June 8 2010[/ame]

- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Wed June 9
- This is my best guess at when Terri's Poly #2 was, based on complex math plus an extremely complicated SWAG. Take it with a grain of salt.
- LE calls in extra searchers from around the state


Thu June 10
- Reporter chases Kaine to the car at the gym asking questions until Kaine gets in car and shuts door. Kaine won't speak to reporter. (Is this the date this happened or the date video published? Was this actually Wed June 9?) http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/search-continues-kyron-horman-10885840
- extra searchers from around the state arrive on scene
- helicopters and horses join search
- 90% of student interviews complete


Fri June 11
- parents speak first time
- Kyron's clothing shown, apparently at the family's request (per Shults)
- "There's just no indication on anything we've got at this point that it was an abduction," Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton told CNN. "The child is still characterized as a missing child." Only time LE has said no evidence of an abduction.
- LE begins searching Sauvie Island


Sat June 12
- LE asks for video from the rural roads.
- LE says to hold off on more donations of food/drinks for the searchers.
- LE complains in presser about rumors on the net.



Sun June 13 - search ends/criminal investigation
 
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