2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[BringKyronHome]

So you think Kaine should have been responsible for working a demanding, full time job plus all the childcare every night as well while his wife played all day and drank all night till she was blottoed?

I think the better question is why was Terri drinking every night and letting the baby play unsupervised while her husband was trying to sleep so he could get up for work in the morning?

Listen, I'm not suggesting that it was ok for Terri to be bombed or anything like that. .

I dont' know if she has done anythign to Kyron...yes she is a odd duck to say the least.

My only point was...it's gotta make people wonder, when she was passed out or drunk to the point she couldn't care for the kids...why Kaine didn't put the child to bed. I doubt vey much that he was in bed at 7 or 8...but she sure should have been. If TH was already incapacitated at that time...why didn't he care for the child...

There may be a good reason...but certainly a judge is gonna be wondering about this. I'm SHOCKED that this has not crossed anyone else's mind.

So, are these accusations exaggerated? OR was there some other reason that Kaine couldn't put the child in her crib at a reasonable hour? Can't imagine any GOOD reason. Not saying there isn't one...just saying, with the info they gave, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room to imagine one. But it does leave a giant gaping hole from which to imagine a lot of bad ones.

 

[BringKyronHome]

just bouncing off your post. This isn't directed to you ladonna. I read the motions off your link. Thank you very much for the link!

Imo: it sounds to me like bunch wants to make a bunch (irony huh) of comments to the public without having to have th speak directly. these motions are being read by the public.

Th is a victem...th is being so mistreated and abused...so on and so forth. He is trying to sway public opinion.

exactly!

 

[txsvicki]

It does look pretty bad for any parent to say that one parent was stumbling around drunk at 7pm, plus had an unhealthy social networking habit. I'd wonder why on earth Terri would get the baby up instead of wanting her to sleep so that she could be online in peace. Kaine did say that he intervened, but why was the baby sleeping on the couch and where was he at 7pm? Most people would not want someone who drank themselves silly every night to be taking care of their toddler all day. Well, we know where Kyron was during all this. He was in his room sleeping 12 hours straight then still not coming out when he woke up. The whole marriage sounded as if it were a battlezone or a battle for the kids. I think Terri is eventually going to try and go for joint custody if not full.

 

[tragco]

Why would Terri withdraw her request now that the texts are already out there and the damage is done?

I read the motion to withdraw. According to her attorneys, Petitioner's (Kaine/attorney) affidavit consisted largely of inadmissible things. Inadmissible hearsay, inadmissible polygraph results, and irrelevant accusations.

Ok, so what is the problem if most of this will be inadmissible and irrelevant to whether or not she gets visitation? IMO from what I am reading, Terri's attorneys are afraid of Terri and others being deposed which would impact her Fifth Amendment rights and damage her if a criminal proceeding begins. Also because they don't get to see the LE information until the civil matter begins and the info is brought forth.

All I have to say is this: If Terri wants to see Baby K, she's going to have to face these issues whether it's now or 5 years from now. The court has an obligation to find out whether Terri should see Baby K and under what terms.

There comes a time when you either fish or cut bait. Terri's cutting bait. WHY?

 

[stmarysmead]

Listen, I'm not suggesting that it was ok for Terri to be bombed or anything like that. And I REALLY resent the fact that I say anything at all that might differ from the pack and I get attacked.

I dont' know if she has done anythign to Kyron...yes she is a odd duck to say the least.

My only point was...it's gotta make people wonder, when she was passed out or drunk to the point she couldn't care for the kids...why Kaine didn't put the child to bed. I doubt vey much that he was in bed at 7 or 8...but she sure should have been. If TH was already incapacitated at that time...why didn't he care for the child...

There may be a good reason...but certainly a judge is gonna be wondering about this. I'm SHOCKED that this has not crossed anyone else's mind.

So, are these accusations exaggerated? OR was there some other reason that Kaine couldn't put the child in her crib at a reasonable hour? Can't imagine any GOOD reason. Not saying there isn't one...just saying, with the info they gave, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room to imagine one. But it does leave a giant gaping hole from which to imagine a lot of bad ones.

A lot has been extrapolated from a statement that CAME FROM KAINE"S SIDE...about Terri's drinking and erratic behavior around the Baby. There is no detail provided as to the absolute conditions.

Suppose the family went to bed...and Terri got up again after both had been to sleep for awhile...and drank...taking Baby from her bed. How could Kaine prevent that?

Maybe Terri passed out drunk and he put Baby to bed...and then went to bed himself...and Terri later got up, drank more...and disrupted the child.

I think there are attempts to deflect from Terri's drunkenness by finding some blame for Kaine...based on extremely limited information.

 

[human]

I think the lawyers may have recently figured out that Michael Cook was possibly a set up by LE after the failed MFH sting. JMO There has to be something more in those text messages. Maybe releasing some but not all was the warning shot fired over the bow.

All my humble opinion only.

Oooh I ike that. The warning shot over the bow.


I bet you are right!

 

[human]

we don't know that Kaine didn't go to bed and the baby was in bed.

Then TH was drinking and another person who lived in the house might have told him about instances.


Kaine may have had no idea that TH was up with the baby until he was told by someone else.

 

[grandmaj]

http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

Here is Kaine's motion in answer to Terri's motion for visitation.

In it he states that when he tried to intervene Terri became Verbally combative. I believe he did do things however it became a walking on eggshell situation with Terri.

This was his affidavit about why Terri should not have visitation. Kaine doesn't include in this motion what he did or didn't do. We just do not know. I'm sure at a hearing some of those questions might have been answered as to what he did or didn't do, to resolve these problems with the baby.

These issues were all discussed in the two threads dealing with Kaine's Motion and Terri's motion.

Let's get back to discussion about the new motion to withdraw the motion for visitation.

If we want to debate the motions that were filed previously here is the thread for Kaine's motion. Thanks.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117800"]2010.10.22 Motion for visitation answered by Kaine Horman's Attorney - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Tink56]

The missing child, the divorce, the contentious relationship between KH and TMH, the unsavory revelations, the distancing of DY and TY, the silence of LE, the tabloid-style reporting, the numerous blogs, paper posters, cheering fans for TMH--all of this is frustrating, maddening and apt to give anyone a headache.

Despite numerous family legal connections, I am baffled by the posturing and declarations from the attorneys involved. For instance, in the following quote, what in heaven's name is TMH really saying..."Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with Kiara."

Okay...SEEK legal custody, but she can't be serious that at any time soon she expects unfettered contact with Baby K...

I agree with many others that a lot of gamemanship is being conducted. However, I can't fathom TMH being allowed access to the baby unless she submits to several restricitons before, during, and after the visits...

Sooooooooooo trying. I wonder if we'll hear from KH's attorney by the Friday deadline to respond to TMH's attorney. Whatever the response is, it will be telling, IMO.

 

[gwenabob]

The missing child, the divorce, the contentious relationship between KH and TMH, the unsavory revelations, the distancing of DY and TY, the silence of LE, the tabloid-style reporting, the numerous blogs, paper posters, cheering fans for TMH--all of this is frustrating, maddening and apt to give anyone a headache.

Despite numerous family legal connections, I am baffled by the posturing and declarations from the attorneys involved. For instance, in the following quote, what in heaven's name is TMH really saying..."Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with Kiara."

Okay...SEEK legal custody, but she can't be serious that at any time soon she expects unfettered contact with Baby K...

I agree with many others that a lot of gamemanship is being conducted. However, I can't fathom TMH being allowed access to the baby unless she submits to several restricitons before, during, and after the visits...

Sooooooooooo trying. I wonder if we'll hear from KH's attorney by the Friday deadline to respond to TMH's attorney. Whatever the response is, it will be telling, IMO.

I don't believe there will be any reply from Kaine's attorney. The motion has been withdrawn. There is no reason for Rackner to incur additional attorney fees for a reply on a moot issue.

 

[germaine]

Listen, I'm not suggesting that it was ok for Terri to be bombed or anything like that. .

I dont' know if she has done anythign to Kyron...yes she is a odd duck to say the least.

My only point was...it's gotta make people wonder, when she was passed out or drunk to the point she couldn't care for the kids...why Kaine didn't put the child to bed. I doubt vey much that he was in bed at 7 or 8...but she sure should have been. If TH was already incapacitated at that time...why didn't he care for the child...

There may be a good reason...but certainly a judge is gonna be wondering about this. I'm SHOCKED that this has not crossed anyone else's mind.

So, are these accusations exaggerated? OR was there some other reason that Kaine couldn't put the child in her crib at a reasonable hour? Can't imagine any GOOD reason. Not saying there isn't one...just saying, with the info they gave, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room to imagine one. But it does leave a giant gaping hole from which to imagine a lot of bad ones.

Here's what I think happened, fwiw. TH did not want the baby to cry it out. It sounds to me like baby was still fussing at night about going to bed, and rather than let her soothe herself, th wanted to bring her into their bed, while KH thought she should be learning to sleep in her own. So they disagreed about that. Th would drink and they both would fall asleep on the couch.

If KH would put baby to sleep in her crib, she would cry, th would wake and insist that she not be allowed to "cry it out" -- mayhem ensues. Everybody is worse off. At least if TH and baby are both asleep on the couch, baby is resting. She doesn't know her mama is wasted, after all.

Sometimes or often, KH would check on the situation in the living room and find baby up while th was still passed out or on the computer (if she's messing around on the computer, she's not gonna put baby to bed so she can cry, wake up KH and have to stop what she's doing--better to let her be up and not crying so TH can do her thing in peace while KH is sleeping). On those occasions when KH checks on them, if TH is passed out and KH tries to put baby to sleep, baby doesn't want to go and is used to getting her way by crying. So TH wakes up, gives KH that what for. If th is awake, she still gives him what for ... and so it goes.

I can see this scenario easily, unfortunately.

jmoo.

 

[JenB]

Here's what I think happened, fwiw. TH did not want the baby to cry it out. It sounds to me like baby was still fussing at night about going to bed, and rather than let her soothe herself, th wanted to bring her into their bed, while KH thought she should be learning to sleep in her own. So they disagreed about that. Th would drink and they both would fall asleep on the couch.

If KH would put baby to sleep in her crib, she would cry, th would wake and insist that she not be allowed to "cry it out" -- mayhem ensues. Everybody is worse off. At least if TH and baby are both asleep on the couch, baby is resting. She doesn't know her mama is wasted, after all.

Sometimes or often, KH would check on the situation in the living room and find baby up while th was still passed out or on the computer (if she's messing around on the computer, she's not gonna put baby to bed so she can cry, wake up KH and have to stop what she's doing--better to let her be up and not crying so TH can do her thing in peace while KH is sleeping). On those occasions when KH checks on them, if TH is passed out and KH tries to put baby to sleep, baby doesn't want to go and is used to getting her way by crying. So TH wakes up, gives KH that what for. If th is awake, she still gives him what for ... and so it goes.

I can see this scenario easily, unfortunately.

jmoo.

This is an excellent theory.

I want to point out how very dangerous it is to co-sleep on a couch and/or when under the influence of alcohol. (I'm a huge proponent of co-sleeping -- not bashing that choice.) So, even though the situation you've described above has played out in many a home (minus the alcohol hopefully) and many parents disagree on how to get their baby to sleep, the introduction of alcohol to the equation makes it very dangerous for baby K even if TH's motive was to keep K feeling secure.

 

[PDXMom]

I don't think Terri ever really fought to get baby K back. I think it's a tactic used by Houze and Bunch to make her appear normal, with maternal emotions. She's a probable alcoholic, and she/they may be hiding the fact that she has other substance abuse issues as well. I believe she's so wrapped up in her perceived victim-ness and the threat to her freedom that having a baby around would just be a hassle. She wants people around her who will serve HER interests. Not the other way around.

I also believe there's a good chance we'll see one of these lawyers recuse himself before long. Today's news was a surprise to me and increases my suspicion that she isn't being forthright with them.

 

[purple turtle]

grandma... my only contention with this is that Houze isn't stupid and he knew that the depos and evaluations would be ordered...

It's almost as if Terri's attorneys discovered something big after the initial filing for visitation. Wonder if she kept her alcoholism from them? Or if it's something even bigger than that?

Or maybe nothing more than a PR move at which Terri's attorneys could later say, "See? She TRIED to see her daughter, but Kaine's such a meanie that he wouldn't let her."

That, besides her withholding evidence from her attorneys, is the only thing that makes sense. OTOH it is a poor way to get good PR considering all Kaine has on her.

The whole thing is illogical.

 

[Dee10]

I'm just not understanding how these expensive, experienced lawyers would have planned this "strategic move." Basically they would have to assume that no one in the general public would think it might be the best parenting decision to NOT allow Baby K to be subjected to the woman she may have witnessed murdering her brother! That is a reckless assumption because many people DO NOT believe it is in Baby's best interest and applaud Kaine for standing firm. Would Terri's lawyers assume everyone agrees with Terri? Why?

And would Terri's lawyers gamble having those graphic sexual texts released because they thought Kaine denying visitation would be more shocking?

Really?

I just don't follow how that could be legal "strategy" of ANY kind. That would reek almost of legal malpractice to me..

ITA I am not really buying that either. Let's say Bunch let the visitation go and we saw none of these motions or texts at all, where would this case be in the media or the general public's mind? Pretty well out of the public's mind. So, I can't see Brunch's strategy if he thought this would be good for Terri and didn't count on the very graphic texts coming out, drinking, etc. perhaps Terri downplayed the texts, maybe she didn't remember what she said? IMO, it was damning to TH, nobody is a Saint but I don't believe this painted Kaine in a bad light, only TH.

Sometimes you can throw all the money you want at a problem & have the best lawyer, but even the best lawyer has to have "something" to work with. I have a funny feeling they found out something else, maybe more to those texts than we have read? I kind of assumed the rest wasn't relative in someway or even positive for TH, but perhaps it forms part of their evidence (for a criminal case)? Maybe they are closer to an arrest even?

 

[citigirl]

I really think that at this point a judge should make a decision about visitation. I don't like any back-door agreements between Kaine and Terri at all. Can't a judge view evidence in camera about the investigation that Kaine can't see? I realize LE does not have standing in this case, but can't Kaine's attorney subpoena LE and the evidence is delivered to the judge, who reviews it in private?

Kaine really doesn't have access to all the information he needs to make a decision, because Terri won't provide it to him. I do not think it would be safe for him to make a decision based only on what he knows now.

If Kaine were to decide to allow Terri to see the baby, I hope Child Services would step in to stop this. Or the judge would appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the baby.

 

[purple turtle]

I'm just not understanding how these expensive, experienced lawyers would have planned this "strategic move." Basically they would have to assume that no one in the general public would think it might be the best parenting decision to NOT allow Baby K to be subjected to the woman she may have witnessed murdering her brother! That is a reckless assumption because many people DO NOT believe it is in Baby's best interest and applaud Kaine for standing firm. Would Terri's lawyers assume everyone agrees with Terri? Why?

And would Terri's lawyers gamble having those graphic sexual texts released because they thought Kaine denying visitation would be more shocking?

Really?

I just don't follow how that could be legal "strategy" of ANY kind. That would reek almost of legal malpractice to me..

applause applause applause

 

[debirlfan]

Keep in mind - as far as I know, at least - we have no real evidence of TH's drinking. That's coming from Kaine - and accusations (true or not) like that are far from uncommon in messy divorces, even ones that don't involve a missing child.

Consider for a moment - what if Kaine's claims were exaggerations or simply false? Those claims are now on record - and if later down the road TH can prove that, then showing him to be dishonest/vindictive is a point in her favor.

Filing for visitation could have been a way of "baiting" Kaine into saying something that could later be used against him.

 

[cluciano63]

I honestly just think her lawyers screwed up. They wanted something (info) and Kaine wanted something (info) and neither got what they wanted, so the side in the more precarious position backed away.

Terri's attorney's apparently had seen the texts before they came out, so that was not the shocker it was to many of us. And some info about possible drinking and meds had already been brought forward by Kaine months ago.

By screwed up, I mean that I don't think the legal team thought the texts would become a big media story before they had a chance to find out anything about the criminal case.

And now, no one gets what they wanted. Kaine will never get info from Terri about Kyron. And Terri's lawyers, whoever they may be, will not get the info they want until she is charged. And Kyron, as usual, is the loser.

 

[Tink56]

I don't believe there will be any reply from Kaine's attorney. The motion has been withdrawn. There is no reason for Rackner to incur additional attorney fees for a reply on a moot issue.

Oh...maybe I misread. I thought that Bunch said "they" were working to reach an amiable settlement and submitted such to Rackner and were awaiting a reply. Am I way out in left field...If so, I'll go sit in the corner very quietly...LOL. (As tired as I am today, I should not be using a keyboard.)