2010.07.26 Grand Jury begins

[Oriah]

Thanks eyes.
This 'grand jury suspended' thread seems so intermingled with others- there are so many crossovers- but this wiki link says to me, who the heck knows what the GJ is asking for, looking for, or intending??? we never will! lol.
Maybe they subpeonaed everyone and everything, and then suspended because bedbugs were discovered in the carpeting.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpoena_duces_tecum[/ame]

Hoping Kyron comes home today...

 

[wondering1]

Here is the link where I asked about the medical records - I or someone else did ask another question about probable cause and the GJ and the answer suggested the standards were different. Can't find the post. Our wonderful lawyers have been working overtime for us on this case, I don't want to repeat a question. And yes, it may vary from state to state. moo mho

Here in Illinois the GJ for the Drew Peterson case had just about everyone he knew in front of them. The standard for probable cause either did not exist or was vastly different from the LE investigation. I don't know how to use the search mode here at WS so when I get the time I will look for the question...maybe it was even someone else who asked. moo mhoo

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for our VERIFIED LAWYERS*~*~*NO DISCUSSIONS*~*~*

No probably cause is necessary for a GJ subpoena.

bbm~

Who must testify before a grand jury?

A prosecutor can obtain a subpoena to compel anyone to testify before a grand jury, without showing probable cause and, in most jurisdictions, without even showing that the person subpoenaed is likely to have relevant information. In the federal system the prosecutor is not required to demonstrate any relevance. The person subpoenaed to testify then is compelled to answer questions unless he or she can claim a specific privilege, such as the marital privilege, lawyer/client privilege, or the privilege against self-incrimination.

http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html

And following up on the link about subpoenas. There are two kinds and they can be used separately or together. One is the Subpoena Duces Tecum referenced in the link. That type requires the witnesses to bring documents and/or things with them. The second type is a Subpoena ad Testificandum. That type requires testimony only.

 

[Oriah]

No probably cause is necessary for a GJ subpoena.

bbm~

Who must testify before a grand jury?

A prosecutor can obtain a subpoena to compel anyone to testify before a grand jury, without showing probable cause and, in most jurisdictions, without even showing that the person subpoenaed is likely to have relevant information. In the federal system the prosecutor is not required to demonstrate any relevance. The person subpoenaed to testify then is compelled to answer questions unless he or she can claim a specific privilege, such as the marital privilege, lawyer/client privilege, or the privilege against self-incrimination.

http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html

And following up on the link about subpoenas. There are two kinds and they can be used separately or together. One is the Subpoena Duces Tecum referenced in the link. That type requires the witnesses to bring documents and/or things with them. The second type is a Subpoena ad Testificandum. That type requires testimony only.

Okay, thank you- and I am sorry for being so dense but I truly am still confused.
Okay- so basically if one or both of those are used- anyone can be subpoened for any reason (in the state of Washington) when there is a GJ sitting?
So for example- I could be sitting here on the opposite coast, knowing nothing, having no involvement, and having no personal info or bearing on this case, and be served a subpoena by this prosecuter and court, and legally be held in contempt of court if I do not show and/or produce evidence/information? Unless I am served a Subpoena ad Testification, in which case I would have to appear but could emply the 5th Amendment, say nothing and produce no evidence/documentation/etc.

Is that correct?:waitasec:

Thank you again our attorneys, and I am sorry about being so dense!

 

[rosiebean]

I've never heard of a grand jury being used as an investigative tool. Where I live, once the case goes to the grand jury, the investigating is done, the DA presents the case and there is either an indictment, or not. Sometimes they just don't have enough solid evidence, but it can always go back to another grand jury later on.
However, by "investigative" you mean getting testimony on record, why not just have the witness give a taped deposition? This is often done under oath, and with a court reporter present who will later transcribe it into written form, which is very handy in court once a trial begins. Testimony doesn't have to be done in front of a grand jury to be binding.

Where I grew up, GJ's were often used as investigative tools, most often in political corruption cases (Louisiana). In one instance, two different friends sat on two different GJs that made up, I think, four or five GJs that eventually indicted the state's insurance commish on corruption charges (Campbell Brown's dad).

I have no idea what this GJ is about. But I'm familiar with investigative ones who simply set the course toward an eventual indictment (which can take years...my first friend who sat on a Campbell GJ did so over four years before the Commish was indicted on corruption charges).

 

[wondering1]

Okay, thank you- and I am sorry for being so dense but I truly am still confused.
Okay- so basically if one or both of those are used- anyone can be subpoened for any reason (in the state of Washington) when there is a GJ sitting?
So for example- I could be sitting here on the opposite coast, knowing nothing, having no involvement, and having no personal info or bearing on this case, and be served a subpoena by this prosecuter and court, and legally be held in contempt of court if I do not show and/or produce evidence/information? Unless I am served a Subpoena ad Testification, in which case I would have to appear but could emply the 5th Amendment, say nothing and produce no evidence/documentation/etc.

Is that correct?:waitasec:

Thank you again our attorneys, and I am sorry about being so dense!

Here you go...The short answer is yes, if the witness is "material" -- which doesn't appear to be a defined term for this part of the statutes.


136.627 Where witness material to proceeding in this state is in another state. (1) If a person in any state, which by its laws has made provision for commanding persons within its borders to attend and testify in criminal prosecutions, or grand jury investigations commenced or about to commence, in this state, is a material witness in a prosecution pending in a court of record in this state, or in a grand jury investigation which has commenced or is about to commence, a judge of such court may issue a certificate under the seal of the county stating these facts and specifying the number of days the witness will be required. Said certificate may include a recommendation that the witness be taken into immediate custody and delivered to an officer of this state to assure the attendance of the witness in this state. This certificate shall be presented to a judge of a court of record in the county in which the witness is found.

(2) If the witness is summoned to attend and testify in this state the witness shall be tendered the sum of 10 cents a mile for each mile by the ordinary traveled route to and from the court where the prosecution is pending and $5 for each day that the witness is required to travel and attend as a witness. A witness who has appeared in accordance with the provisions of the summons shall not be required to remain within this state a longer period of time than the period mentioned in the certificate, unless otherwise ordered by the court. If such witness, after coming into this state, fails without good cause to attend and testify as directed in the summons, the witness shall be punished in the manner provided for the punishment of any witness who disobeys a subpoena issued from a court of record in this state. [Formerly 139.230]
http://landru.leg.state.or.us/ors/136.html

 

[Oriah]

Here you go...The short answer is yes, if the witness is "material" -- which doesn't appear to be a defined term for this part of the statutes.


136.627 Where witness material to proceeding in this state is in another state. (1) If a person in any state, which by its laws has made provision for commanding persons within its borders to attend and testify in criminal prosecutions, or grand jury investigations commenced or about to commence, in this state, is a material witness in a prosecution pending in a court of record in this state, or in a grand jury investigation which has commenced or is about to commence, a judge of such court may issue a certificate under the seal of the county stating these facts and specifying the number of days the witness will be required. Said certificate may include a recommendation that the witness be taken into immediate custody and delivered to an officer of this state to assure the attendance of the witness in this state. This certificate shall be presented to a judge of a court of record in the county in which the witness is found.

(2) If the witness is summoned to attend and testify in this state the witness shall be tendered the sum of 10 cents a mile for each mile by the ordinary traveled route to and from the court where the prosecution is pending and $5 for each day that the witness is required to travel and attend as a witness. A witness who has appeared in accordance with the provisions of the summons shall not be required to remain within this state a longer period of time than the period mentioned in the certificate, unless otherwise ordered by the court. If such witness, after coming into this state, fails without good cause to attend and testify as directed in the summons, the witness shall be punished in the manner provided for the punishment of any witness who disobeys a subpoena issued from a court of record in this state. [Formerly 139.230]
http://landru.leg.state.or.us/ors/136.html

Thank you, wondering1.

I shall now live in constant fear of being subpoened by other states GJ's at any moment. But at least I will be reimbursed for my travel time!

(Seriously though- thanks for that clarification. )

 

[Morag]

Where I grew up, GJ's were often used as investigative tools, most often in political corruption cases (Louisiana)....snip

WHAT?? Political corruption in Louisiana??? You cannot be serious!!

(I grew up in Louisiana, too)

 

[Kimberlyd125]

WHAT?? Political corruption in Louisiana??? You cannot be serious!!

(I grew up in Louisiana, too)

Thank God it's not as bad as it used to be. We have enough corruption on the federal level.

But, there is political corruption everywhere.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This might be slightly OT, but it has to do with the Grand Jury, so I found the most recent thread on the subject.

I was "listening" to Issues with Jan Velez-Mitchell last night while having dinner. I was surprised to hear a guest say that "the family hasn't been there" when asked about the status of the Grand Jury. The transcript is available this morning, and I did hear Bruce McCain right. Here's the excerpt:

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What the heck is going on, Bruce McCain, with the grand jury? And you know, what about all these reports that Terri was upset because her husband had said her 16-year-old son had to leave the house?

MCCAIN: Well, again, Jane, the grand jury has been surprisingly quiet. It`s been watched by the media almost every day here in Multnomah County. The 30-day session has already come and gone. We saw the usual suspects of detectives and school employees but none of the big players. The family wasn`t there. DeDe Spicher, who we haven`t talked about in a while, she hasn`t showed up yet. So right now this investigation seems...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. We`re going to stay on top of it. Thank you, panel.

Does this mean that Kaine and/or Desiree have not testified before the GJ, or does McCain not have all the facts (he's been misinformed about other things, i.e. the last day of school at Skyline last June)?

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/13/ijvm.01.html

 

[sarah7855]

This might be slightly OT, but it has to do with the Grand Jury, so I found the most recent thread on the subject.

I was "listening" to Issues with Jan Velez-Mitchell last night while having dinner. I was surprised to hear a guest say that "the family hasn't been there" when asked about the status of the Grand Jury. The transcript is available this morning, and I did hear Bruce McCain right. Here's the excerpt:

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What the heck is going on, Bruce McCain, with the grand jury? And you know, what about all these reports that Terri was upset because her husband had said her 16-year-old son had to leave the house?

MCCAIN: Well, again, Jane, the grand jury has been surprisingly quiet. It`s been watched by the media almost every day here in Multnomah County. The 30-day session has already come and gone. We saw the usual suspects of detectives and school employees but none of the big players. The family wasn`t there. DeDe Spicher, who we haven`t talked about in a while, she hasn`t showed up yet. So right now this investigation seems...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. We`re going to stay on top of it. Thank you, panel.

Does this mean that Kaine and/or Desiree have not testified before the GJ, or does McCain not have all the facts (he's been misinformed about other things, i.e. the last day of school at Skyline last June)?

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/13/ijvm.01.html

I'm guessing he was just misinformed. Here's a couple links that say Kaine and Desiree did testify (first link says they testified for 'hours'):

At this link, it says:

Yesterday, Kyron's mother Desiree Young and his father Kaine spent hours giving testimony at a Multnomah County Courthouse

At this link, it says:

The father of missing seven-year-old Kyron Horman confirmed to KGW that he appeared before the grand jury Monday and could possibly be returning on Tuesday.

And, at this link, it says:

The parents of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman testified before a grand jury Monday afternoon, according to a source at the Multnomah County Courthouse.

Looks like it all took place around August 2nd.

 

[Jo in Calif]

This might be slightly OT, but it has to do with the Grand Jury, so I found the most recent thread on the subject.

I was "listening" to Issues with Jan Velez-Mitchell last night while having dinner. I was surprised to hear a guest say that "the family hasn't been there" when asked about the status of the Grand Jury. The transcript is available this morning, and I did hear Bruce McCain right. Here's the excerpt:

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What the heck is going on, Bruce McCain, with the grand jury? And you know, what about all these reports that Terri was upset because her husband had said her 16-year-old son had to leave the house?

MCCAIN: Well, again, Jane, the grand jury has been surprisingly quiet. It`s been watched by the media almost every day here in Multnomah County. The 30-day session has already come and gone. We saw the usual suspects of detectives and school employees but none of the big players. The family wasn`t there. DeDe Spicher, who we haven`t talked about in a while, she hasn`t showed up yet. So right now this investigation seems...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. We`re going to stay on top of it. Thank you, panel.

Does this mean that Kaine and/or Desiree have not testified before the GJ, or does McCain not have all the facts (he's been misinformed about other things, i.e. the last day of school at Skyline last June)?

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/13/ijvm.01.html

Could he have been referring to Terri's parents and her son possibly? We haven't heard, that I recall, if they have gone before the GJ, they were in the house, after the fact. The parents were there after Kaine left, I believe.
There are so many people, that LE would need testimony from, I can see why testimony before the GJ would take so long.
Pupils, teachers, parents, personnel, anyone who might have been at the school on the 4th.
Employee's at the 2 FM.
Anyone working at the farm with DeDe.
Anyone at the gym that morning.
The Dr's office
Computer records, cell phone records, land line records.
LE, all of them.
Friends before and after the 4th.
There is so much that has to be brought before the GJ, I can't even wrap my brain around it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Could he have been referring to Terri's parentsand her son possibly? We haven't heard, that I recall, if they have gone before the GJ, they were in the house, after the fact. The parents were there after Kaine left, I believe.
There are so many people, that LE would need testimony from, I can see why testimony before the GJ would take so long.
Pupils, teachers, parents, personnel, anyone who might have been at the school on the 4th.
Employee's at the 2 FM.
Anyone working at the farm with DeDe.
Anyone at the gym that morning.
The Dr's office
Computer records, cell phone records, land line records.
LE, all of them.
Friends before and after the 4th.
There is so much that has to be brought before the GJ, I can't even wrap my brain around it.

Great list! How about the other grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, other family members with whom Kyron came in contact? Scout leader, Sunday school teacher, soccer coach, and others who interacted with Kyron outside of school?

Yes, the list could get very long. jmo