2011.01.30 new search north and west of Portland

[YellowSubmarine]

"They say" that killers dumping a body usually go to a place they're familiar with and comfortable with, but this is a remote area that doesn't seem to connect to anybody in Kyron's family. Is anybody in the family into target shooting or hiking? Is there another reason why somebody would be up on those roads -- like to get to somewhere else? It looks like those hills just go on and on, and are pretty rugged too.

This location has me thinking stranger abduction again.

IIRC, Terri was into target shooting. She was also a devoted gardener and landscaper, as is DeDe. They were heavy into working out (back in the day), and easily could have hiked, biked and/or jogged in this area. Apparently Kyron loved to explore. Also, remember TH's claim of driving rural roads to calm the baby. I could see many, many reasons she'd be familiar with this area.

 

[pinktoes]

Can a maps whiz help me out? I'm trying to determine if the AirSoft property (outlined in blue at this link) coincides with that one search area that was a bit away from the others:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...0.010568&t=h&z=17&iwloc=00048266983f9bac459c9

Here's a link explaining some kind of strange games played by people wearing eye protection, and looks like a camo-wardrobe group likes to play. Don't know if these cached links actually work. But this is The Farm, at 24371 Rocky Point Rd, Scappoose, OR 97056 :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[cluciano63]

IIRC, Terri was into target shooting. She was also a devoted gardener and landscaper, as is DeDe. They were heavy into working out (back in the day), and easily could have hiked, biked and/or jogged in this area. Apparently Kyron loved to explore. Also, remember TH's claim of driving rural roads to calm the baby. I could see many, many reasons she'd be familiar with this area.

I don't remember anything about TH target shooting? Or even being a devoted gardener. And Desiree described Kyron as being afraid to even lose site of his house, due to his vision, so I don't think he would be called an explorer.


On another topic, As far as Dede pretending to be Terri at the gym-I think this scenario is highly unlikely. This is something that could be discovered too easily and what would be the explanation for that? People knew Terri at the gym and she and Dede look nothing alike. Probably the daycare people know Terri very well. I would think LE uncovering this type of switch on this day could even lead to an arrest and that hasn't happened. (providing false info, for example).

Some cynics are saying that LE started searching again, talking about solid leads, in order to ask for funds later in the month...I truly hope that is not the case but the timing is odd.

 

[pinktoes]

The only thing I remember about target shooting was in the summer when it was reported that shots were heard coming from the Horman property. IIRC, it was thought perhaps Kaine was target shooting.

 

[loves2bmom]

Can a maps whiz help me out? I'm trying to determine if the AirSoft property (outlined in blue at this link) coincides with that one search area that was a bit away from the others:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...0.010568&t=h&z=17&iwloc=00048266983f9bac459c9

Here's a link explaining some kind of strange games played by people wearing eye protection, and looks like a camo-wardrobe group likes to play. Don't know if these cached links actually work. But this is The Farm, at 24371 Rocky Point Rd, Scappoose, OR 97056 :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Pinktoes, yes this place is in the general vicinity of the search yesterday. Here's another map that was in today's paper but I couldn't find it online. Scanned it in for you. The Airsoft place would be to the left of the word "Rocky Point" on this map. (note this map does not show every place they were yesterday but gives you a general idea):

 

[loves2bmom]

Sorry about the size...I keep trying to make it smaller....LOL

 

[Wondergirl]

Not stupid at all, don't ever worry about that.

There are few dogs who can accurately and consistently run a 3 week old trail. Very very few who can do so at a month. Zero that I have ever witnessed that can do a 7 month old trail. There are a few handlers out there who claim they can, interestingly enough, they also charge for their services....

Thank-you for this, Sarx.

Now, can you offer some insight as to why LE would be bringing in HRD Dogs to search for the boy at this late stage, in this area, then? :waitasec:

 

[Billylee]

I have to try and actually get things done today since I spent WAY to much time on the computer yesterday! I just had a couple of quick thoughts.

The area they were searching yesterday is definitely a cyclist hub. I drive up Skyline every Saturday for Horse lessons (which is mostly what you see out there, horses and tree farms) and never see many cars but always a group of cyclists that I have to avoid hitting. I don't think you'll see people going out there this week and trying to search on their own as many of the areas are private property but then again...with some of the crazy people following this case :crazy:....I sure hope they don't go trudging through there. Present company excluded of course!
I personally feel they must have gotten some sort of clue that pointed them to that area. Maybe something about Skyline logging roads which is why they were in several places but all off of Skyline. I don't think it was cell pings as the coverage is too spotty. I think it had to be something else...whether it be an email they recently discovered or a viable tip phoned in? I also believe this tip came in the last 6 weeks or less. JMO

Except one of the articles said that they had wanted to do this search 3 or 4 MONTHS ago, but couldn't because of the weather.

 

[tlcya]

BBM

The reporter's caption under this photo says searcher Marty Neiman prepares to photo some type of BONE he discovered!!

Not paper!

the reporter is mistaken and I would file this one under "rumor"

We can see from the closeups of that same item taken later, that it is NOT a bone.

 

[sarx]

Thank-you for this, Sarx.

Now, can you offer some insight as to why LE would be bringing in HRD Dogs to search for the boy at this late stage, in this area, then? :waitasec:

Sure, this isn't late at all for HRD dogs to be called out. They are out there looking for remains or trace evidence.

 

[cluciano63]

So the dogs can pick up traces of human remains at this late date, just not specific to Kyron? (so they don't require a "scent article from the home" so to speak ) I didn't think they did...

 

[loves2bmom]

Except one of the articles said that they had wanted to do this search 3 or 4 MONTHS ago, but couldn't because of the weather.

I don't buy it though Billy! 3 or 4 months ago the weather wasn't cold at all. Either the reporter got it wrong or LE is fudging on information. JMO

Billy...do you have the article that said 3 or 4 months? Not that it matters, I still don't believe whoever may have said it. I just wanted to see which article you're referring. I saw one quote "a few months ago" which I take could mean December which is when I think they got the tip. Thanks Billy!

 

[sarx]

So the dogs can pick up traces of human remains at this late date, just not specific to Kyron? (so they don't require a "scent article from the home" so to speak ) I didn't think they did...

Oh absolutely, these are HRD dogs, not area search or trailing dogs. HRD dogs if trained for it can detect remains hundreds if not thousands of years old (check out "archeological HRD dogs"). No scent article needed.

 

[cluciano63]

Oh absolutely, these are HRD dogs, not area search or trailing dogs. HRD dogs if trained for it can detect remains hundreds if not thousands of years old (check out "archeological HRD dogs"). No scent article needed.

Wow, and I always though they had one of Cleopatra's socks...(sorry, just thinking back to a certain person who insisted you needed the scent item from the person...)

 

[pinktoes]

I posted earlier the weekend weather going back to early Dec. And most of it was out of the ideal range for these dogs to work, according to one of their handlers, IIRC. There were a couple of other viable weekends in there, though.

However, a local who hikes there all the time says there has been snow cover in some of the area that was searched. She drove over during the search to verify that searchers were in her hiking area. So, maybe the dogs don't like snow. Or maybe their handlers don't like snow. Or cold. IDK

 

[miabellamoure]

"They say" that killers dumping a body usually go to a place they're familiar with and comfortable with, but this is a remote area that doesn't seem to connect to anybody in Kyron's family. Is anybody in the family into target shooting or hiking? Is there another reason why somebody would be up on those roads -- like to get to somewhere else? It looks like those hills just go on and on, and are pretty rugged too.

This location has me thinking stranger abduction again.

This area doesn't make me think of "stranger abduction"...(with all we know already) it just makes me think like the mind of someone who has done something horrible and wants to dispose of their evidence linking them to the crime (body, etc) as far away as possible.

Most who live in OR are plenty aware of the logging roads and that most are desolate and without a lot of chance to be noticed.

jmho...

 

[purple turtle]

http://photos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2011/01/bnkyron.html

Thx Carole.

IF that's truly a bone in the pic - then it looks like a scapula (shoulder blade) bone, judging by the shape.

IF it is - why oh why would LE allow an image of it to be released to the media?

jmo
that is a scapula but it is far too small to be human and it is the wrong shape.

go to google and put in "human scapula' then hit "images" and you can see.

imho I would say it is a cat scapula

 

[carbuff]

re: airsoft -- a sport with non-lethal projectiles. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft[/ame]. It sounds a bit like paintball.

It looks like this Farm place does commando and war scenarios.

 

[Shadowboy]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/desiree_young_says_waiting_for.html

"The mother of Kyron Horman struggled today with feelings of despair following yet another failed search for her missing son.
(snip)
"It's torture," said Desiree Young. "It's the worst cruel punishment that a woman has to go through."

(snip)
"She said she knew about plans for Sunday's search since a briefing with investigators before Thanksgiving. She said they told her and Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, they had solid new evidence."

 

[purple turtle]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/desiree_young_says_waiting_for.html

"The mother of Kyron Horman struggled today with feelings of despair following yet another failed search for her missing son.
(snip)
"It's torture," said Desiree Young. "It's the worst cruel punishment that a woman has to go through."

(snip)
"She said she knew about plans for Sunday's search since a briefing with investigators before Thanksgiving. She said they told her and Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, they had solid new evidence."

Okay, now I'm crying.

I knew yesterday when she was "excited" that if this did not pan out she was going to crash big time into despair.

And if they did find him ... well .. Desiree is right it is the worst cruel punishment.