2011.03.29 MOTIONS: Dr. Hall & Karen Lowe "DT Claim Witnesses Unreliable In Case"

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Let it go... the state doesn't need them anyway.

I am probably one of the most fair people I know.. Hell, I thought Terri Horman was innocent up until a couple months ago.. and in this case, what I keep coming back to and can not get over.... and what "seals the deal" for me that casey is guilty is:
not reporting her daughter missing for 31 days
slumber parties at tony's
shopping and writing amy's checks all over orlando
shaking her @ss at fusion
cindy's 911 call
casey's taped interviews - of all her lies
the SMELL in the car

to me... it doesn't matter how long those plants were growing thru the bones.. the post mortem death band doesn't mean a whole lot... or the cadaver dogs.

anyone with common sense will know better

Oh, BlOnDe_GuRrL, I am so with you! But unfortunately the legal system requires so much more. They have to be sure that the victim is really the victim and that the accused is not. Sets the whole world upside down, huh?

 

[spqr]

I don't recall KL having said the following; do any of you? She seemed to have all of the qualifications of an expert as far as I could understand. . .

I thought I heard Simms state you are an expert, and the FBI person said correct.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

My head is going to implode at the next hearing! It almost imploded just from reading these motions!! How the heck are these to be considered "amended motions in limine"? Aren't they nothing more than the legal argument on the Frye hearings re these witnesses? This is what they are supposed to argue after all the testimony is heard--but to put it in a motion and label it an amended motion? Sheesh.

 

[LancelotLink]

Dear Judge,

The defense team objects to the "bald assertions" made by Ms. Lowe. Given our representation of Ms. Anthony....we have quite frankly had enough "bald assertions" to last a lifetime.

Begrudgingly,

Jose

The hair expert gave bald assertions? CM must think he is a real riot!

 

[Oakley]

Since I have seen it referenced here before, I will point you in the direction of thehinkymeter.com There is an excellent article there tonight about these motions and Val lays out quite clearly and in bold red letters that Ms. Lowe did NOT say she was not an expert. she made it quite clear what area she was an expert in. CM must have been asleep when that exchange occurred.

Thank you for setting the record straight. Valhal (bless her heart) posted the actual conversation, and apparently CM twisted Ms Lowe's testimony in his motion <surprise, surprise.>

 

[mitzi]

Very interesting ! WESH must not be aware of this because they said this would be the first time hair banding will be used in trial and compared it to Ashton getting DNA evidence into trial for the first time ... (I know, I should know better than to listen to WESH) Clearly, from your link, it's not the first time ...

I'm hoping someone can answer this for me ... why is Mason referring to this motion as a Frye issue? It was a forensic evidentiary motion and was heard as such ...

And why oh why is Mason even filing this BEFORE Judge Perry rules on it ?? Is it because Mason knows that the state's expert testimony was strong and that Judge Perry will most likely rule in favor of it coming in at trial ??? Or to pressure or persuade the judge to rule in favor of the defense ??


So many questions .... I'm so glad we'll get some answers THIS week !!

'

Bold mine.

I didn't read the WESH article, but if it's true that they (WESH) stated that the hair banding is the "new" evidence that Ashton wants to get accepted into trial, they are wrong. It's the odor of decomposition testing done by Dr. Vass that will be the first time used in court, if Mr. Ashton can get it in.

 

[strach304]

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/other-courts/2005/2005-25410.html
People v Kogut. New York Other Courts Decisions --- Supreme Court, Nassau County, September 19, 2005

Interesting link. A case where the defendant fought to have expert testimony presented stating re: postmortem hair banding (because he thought the evidence had been planted by LE). The State fought against evidence, stating it was not usually accepted within the scientific community. There was a Frye hearing and end result Defendant and the State could present their expert witnesses.

During the Frye hearing the experts testified that how to identify postmortem hair banding is known and accepted by medical examiner's offices and police labs etc

I know it's been several years since Madeline McCann went missing. That was the first time I had ever heard of this science. Of all people who do you think brought up and explained the postmortem hair banding while appearing on Greta? Michael Baden. Wouldn't that be a hoot if the state called him since this DT is saying the FBI agent isn't an expert? I bet he believes it to be very accurate and acceptable science.

 

[Macushla]

I know it's been several years since Madeline McCann went missing. That was the first time I had ever heard of this science. Of all people who do you think brought up and explained the postmortem hair banding while appearing on Greta? Michael Baden. Wouldn't that be a hoot if the state called him since this DT is saying the FBI agent isn't an expert? I bet he believes it to be very accurate and acceptable science.

that is really interesting! If one of our resident legal eagles happens to wander through this thread, could you answer a question about this? Since Michael Baden's wife once worked on the defense team, would he still be allowed to testify on this issue for the State or even the defense? Would there be any conflict of interest objections raised?

 

[strawberry]

Man, and I thought MY daughter was a strong willed child. She has nothing on CM and JB. THey just don't give up do they? Please? No. Please? No. Please? No.

 

[Intermezzo]

Man, and I thought MY daughter was a strong willed child. She has nothing on CM and JB. THey just don't give up do they? Please? No. Please? No. Please? No.

IMO They are DESPERATE, Desperate to get as much evidence tossed as they can...

I patiently await CJBP rulings on the Frye Hearing motions...when we find out which forensic evidence will be allowed in and which evidence is, IF ANY,tossed..

 

[zoey]

Man, and I thought MY daughter was a strong willed child. She has nothing on CM and JB. THey just don't give up do they? Please? No. Please? No. Please? No.

you forgot....thats not fair...you must like the other one more.....:maddening::seeya:

 

[strawberry]

These motions are kind of funny. See, Sims was all set to ask questions to question the actual evidence rather than the research. It wasn't until the hearing where HHJP kept having to say "this is a Frye hearing" that she realized she had prepared the wrong tactic. So this is their do-over. Ooopsy.

Is that poor FBI woman going to have to suffer DS AGAIN? She might as well bring a tape recording of her first excellent testimony and hit Play when asked a question.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I haven't read this thread yet...and apologize if this has been referenced. There is an amazing in depth critique of this new motion as it relates to Ms. Lowe and her testimony on the hair banding done by Valhall over at The Hinky.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/0...cerning-states-expert-witness-lowe/#more-6533

 

[faefrost]

that is really interesting! If one of our resident legal eagles happens to wander through this thread, could you answer a question about this? Since Michael Baden's wife once worked on the defense team, would he still be allowed to testify on this issue for the State or even the defense? Would there be any conflict of interest objections raised?

Expert witnesses are not like other witnesses. Since they are paid professional witnesses they can choose for whom they will or will not give testimony. They have the right to opt to not offer their services to either party. In the case of Dr. Baden he has said numerous times in public that he does not participate in any case involving his wife, for either side, as it creates an unwanted conflict between his career and his personal family life.

 

[zoey]

These motions are kind of funny. See, Sims was all set to ask questions to question the actual evidence rather than the research. It wasn't until the hearing where HHJP kept having to say "this is a Frye hearing" that she realized she had prepared the wrong tactic. So this is their do-over. Ooopsy.

Is that poor FBI woman going to have to suffer DS AGAIN? She might as well bring a tape recording of her first excellent testimony and hit Play when asked a question.

You just reminded me...Isn't this one of the times that HHJP told (schooled?) sims on filing a motion to get what ever point she was trying to make....?

 

[kaRN]

Unreliable expert state witnessess= OMG we have nothing to counter their science or claims!!!
It's too bad the brain tust at the defense table didn't dream this stunt up before Dr Vass took the stand. What a missed opportunity.
So what did these 2 witnesses do to suddenly become unreliable pray tell. I guess if I read the motion I might know but I'm refusing to on principle.
I guess they're both Adverse, having been called by the state LOL and that's enough.
Motion will be DENIED

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

These motions are kind of funny. See, Sims was all set to ask questions to question the actual evidence rather than the research. It wasn't until the hearing where HHJP kept having to say "this is a Frye hearing" that she realized she had prepared the wrong tactic. So this is their do-over. Ooopsy.

Is that poor FBI woman going to have to suffer DS AGAIN? She might as well bring a tape recording of her first excellent testimony and hit Play when asked a question.

Funnier yet, Simms appears as if she has not been involved in a criminal case but more of the medical ones where workers comp comes in..She has no experience as we saw her examining this fine FBI person, KLowe...she has no clue about Frye Hearings, His Honor had to remind her many, many times..his last frustration as seen as he laid back in his chair with his hand over his forehead...just unbelievable that the only "expert" ICA has is one who shoots down medical theories/injuries...they need to go back to the drawing board. I believe DSimms isn't an expert in plant growth since it's a hobby...:loser: and she has the nerve to insinuate this FBI person who does this for a living isn't an expert...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[strawberry]

You just reminded me...Isn't this one of the times that HHJP told (schooled?) sims on filing a motion to get what ever point she was trying to make....?

I think so, yes. Thanks Judge.

Unreliable expert state witnessess= OMG we have nothing to counter their science or claims!!!
It's too bad the brain tust at the defense table didn't dream this stunt up before Dr Vass took the stand. What a missed opportunity.
So what did these 2 witnesses do to suddenly become unreliable pray tell. I guess if I read the motion I might know but I'm refusing to on principle.
I guess they're both Adverse, having been called by the state LOL and that's enough.
Motion will be DENIED

I hope he does just deny it and say No Hearing. What a waste of time that would be. PS How does this relate to "There is a reasonable explanation that will all come out at trial"?:waitasec:

 

[Numbers]

Expert witnesses are not like other witnesses. Since they are paid professional witnesses they can choose for whom they will or will not give testimony. They have the right to opt to not offer their services to either party. In the case of Dr. Baden he has said numerous times in public that he does not participate in any case involving his wife, for either side, as it creates an unwanted conflict between his career and his personal family life.

Would that be before or after Spector I?

He's for sale, too. Somebody needed to up the ante, that's all.

 

[kaRN]

Man, and I thought MY daughter was a strong willed child. She has nothing on CM and JB. THey just don't give up do they? Please? No. Please? No. Please? No.

I bet your daughter is better raised and way too smart than to storm off in a hissy fit stating you don't know how to be a Mother or calling you biased after you say no. LOL!

I think they have a legal form of shared Tourettes. There's a thesis here if only someone could stomach the subject matter. :loser: