28 March 2010: Josh Powell Bankruptcy Documents - ALL

[Insomnia Momma]

PickieChikie - Thanks wasn't enough for everything you posted! YOU ROCK!

 

[Rainier]

Does $323 a month repayments sound like a lot for a van?

It's on the high side for adverts I've seen on TV, but I think those may be just for rentals - i.e. you pay $XYZ a month for 24, 36 or 60 months to use the vehicle, but at the end of that period it returns to the rental company.

It seems like Josh wanted a brand new van to swan around in (while Susan cycled), when a second-hand van could have filled his family and business needs and been a lot less of a strain on her monthly pay packet.

$323 is not bad payments at all. That's likely less than a $20,000 loan with his credit. A new Chrysler T&C starts at $30K bare bones. Plus the paperwork shows he sold a 1997 Voyager, so my guess is they were trying to replace an old beater with something more reliable. Plus, I don't know who buys a minivan to swan around in... but you never know.

 

[svfxt]

Just my $ .02... (perhaps some of you with experience with personalities or psychology can help shed some light on this as I do not have experience with profiling or anything of the sort).

As I ponder the bankruptcy, I can't help but wonder, was JP just "really bad" with money, or was it by design? Go with me for a second... Meaning, did JP try to sabotage his family's finances on purpose? What "IF", JP was trying to ruin/drain his family's finances intentionally so that they (his family) would have "no choice" but to move back in with SP in Washington to get back on their feet so that SP could be closer to Susan...
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, maybe it WAS as simple as JP was just arrogant and bad with money, but I can't help but wonder if it was JP's plan all along some how.....your thoughts please?

 

[krimekat]

bankruptcy due to his missing wife being the breadwinner?

pre December 6, 2009 . . . premeditation? Naw

please

 

[svfxt]

bankruptcy due to his missing wife being the breadwinner?

pre December 6, 2009 . . . premeditation? Naw

please

lol, apparently there was little demand for mediocre realtors and web esigners

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Just my $ .02... (perhaps some of you with experience with personalities or psychology can help shed some light on this as I do not have experience with profiling or anything of the sort).

As I ponder the bankruptcy, I can't help but wonder, was JP just "really bad" with money, or was it by design? Go with me for a second... Meaning, did JP try to sabotage his family's finances on purpose? What "IF", JP was trying to ruin/drain his family's finances intentionally so that they (his family) would have "no choice" but to move back in with SP in Washington to get back on their feet so that SP could be closer to Susan...
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, maybe it WAS as simple as JP was just arrogant and bad with money, but I can't help but wonder if it was JP's plan all along some how.....your thoughts please?

I'm not sure if he planned to drain them financially as a way of getting back to his twisted relationship with Papa Tone Deaf, but there's no doubt in my mind that he used that as another reason why it was Susan's fault that she had to work so hard. Something like: "Well you wouldn't have to take a job if you didn't force us to move away, so it's your own fault that you have to ride to work in the freezing cold 14 miles a day!"

I think JP is just selfish to the point that he believes he deserves whatever he wants, regardless of financial status or cost, and he lacks the maturity necessary to actually perform the tasks required to lead a household. He's a giant baby, completely incapable of managing his own life.

 

[gwenabob]

I hope everyone noticed how Josh included a loan from the Coxes in his bankruptcy. I wonder why he didn't borrow from his father instead?

 

[OneLove]

Just my $ .02... (perhaps some of you with experience with personalities or psychology can help shed some light on this as I do not have experience with profiling or anything of the sort).

As I ponder the bankruptcy, I can't help but wonder, was JP just "really bad" with money, or was it by design? Go with me for a second... Meaning, did JP try to sabotage his family's finances on purpose? What "IF", JP was trying to ruin/drain his family's finances intentionally so that they (his family) would have "no choice" but to move back in with SP in Washington to get back on their feet so that SP could be closer to Susan...
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, maybe it WAS as simple as JP was just arrogant and bad with money, but I can't help but wonder if it was JP's plan all along some how.....your thoughts please?

Your post was like a light bulb being turned on for me. What an incredibly passive-aggressive little twerp, if this is true. Looking at it from THIS angle, about every egregious action he committed could be a part of a passive-aggressive campaign to go back home to daddy. I suppose Susan put her foot down and said she was never going back under ANY circumstances. I hope his little bit of time back under daddy's thumb was worth it to him. Looks like he's going to have HELL to pay for it.

 

[OneLove]

I hope everyone noticed how Josh included a loan from the Coxes in his bankruptcy. I wonder why he didn't borrow from his father instead?

I wish I could read the linked documents, but can't. Can you kindly tell us the amount of the loan and when it was made? Many thanks to you for pointing this out.

 

[gwenabob]

At the time this bankruptcy was filed, Josh listed Susan as a "homemaker" and I don't think she had started working as a stockbroker yet. Either that, or he flat out lied about her occupation and income.

I wouldn't put it past him to try to force Susan's hand in moving back to Washington. Guess he was surprised by her ability to earn a living on her own!

But, from what I have heard/read, I think Josh was just really bad with money. He has a narcissistic personality which means he is way over confident in his abilities. He really thought he was going to sell a lot of houses because he is the BEST SALESMAN EVER!! And he fell for the Dex advertisement salesman who sold him $90,000 worth of advertising in the form of yellow page ads and stupid refrigerator magnets.

 

[gwenabob]

I wish I could read the linked documents, but can't. Can you kindly tell us the amount of the loan and when it was made? Many thanks to you for pointing this out.

The loan was for $3,000 and it was made in 2005.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I think the amount JP borrowed from Chuck and Judy Cox was $3,000.00. He must have signed a promissory note, IMO.

I cannot believe JP would stoop so low as to declare this loan in his bankruptcy.

MOO

 

[Rainier]

I think the amount JP borrowed from Chuck and Judy Cox was $3,000.00. He must have signed a promissory note, IMO.

I cannot believe JP would stoop so low as to declare this loan in his bankruptcy.

MOO

He likely didn't have a choice. To not declare the loan would be unfair to other creditors, who could potentially claim that the bankruptcy was a way to transfer wealth from them to an unclaimed creditor who was later repaid.

 

[gwenabob]

He could have reaffirmed the Cox loan.

 

[OneLove]

I wonder if either the Coxes or Joshy could be persuaded to publicly address the loan issue, as in what it was for, the conditions and intent of the loan, whether repayment terms had been agreed upon and then not honored, etc.

On second thought, considering the Cox's position with the children, I guess not. I wonder if Susan's friends or other family members have knowledge and could address this.

It is sooooo standard for narcissists to particularly dislike those to whom they are indebted. They think the universe owes them EVERYTHING, and how DARE anyone not give it to them. I'm betting he never intended to repay a cent.

 

[Laughing]

Long ago in a galaxy far away I worked in the mortgage section of a savings&loan. Yes, folks, in the '80's, just before (and during) the Resolution Trust Corporation.

I think that this loan was the down payment for the house in WVC. Bank accounts are verified in the loan application process. Gift funds or loans must have paperwork/documentation or the house is considered 'non-owner occupied.'

Common for young couples to have gift funds or family loans, at least where/when I worked in mortgage lending. Utah lending law may be different.

IMHO, it is low indeed to include a family loan in bankruptcy instead of reaffirming....

:twocents:

Laughing (but not about Susan & her family!)

 

[HotLavaJavas]

Long ago in a galaxy far away I worked in the mortgage section of a savings&loan. Yes, folks, in the '80's, just before (and during) the Resolution Trust Corporation.

I think that this loan was the down payment for the house in WVC. Bank accounts are verified in the loan application process. Gift funds or loans must have paperwork/documentation or the house is considered 'non-owner occupied.'

Common for young couples to have gift funds or family loans, at least where/when I worked in mortgage lending. Utah lending law may be different.

IMHO, it is low indeed to include a family loan in bankruptcy instead of reaffirming....

:twocents:

Laughing (but not about Susan & her family!)

I can confirm they bought the house in early 2004. Susan talked about house hunting, and this particular one.

They had to do some work to it since it was a HUD home.

 

[hollyblue]

I can confirm they bought the house in early 2004. Susan talked about house hunting, and this particular one.

They had to do some work to it since it was a HUD home.

Had they moved to SLC and had a rental before the house purchase? TIA

 

[sunnydee]

He likely didn't have a choice. To not declare the loan would be unfair to other creditors, who could potentially claim that the bankruptcy was a way to transfer wealth from them to an unclaimed creditor who was later repaid.

I doubt Josh ever planned to repaid Mr. and Mrs. Cox.

 

[HotLavaJavas]

Had they moved to SLC and had a rental before the house purchase? TIA

Yes. They bought the house after moving here. They may have stayed with his sister, I'm not entirely positive. But they did buy the house after they moved here and got jobs.