4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93

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MOO:
I keep reading comments here that AT is currently trying to stall or delay.
The prosecution has requested to have until September to hand in their discovery. Then defense has until January to provide theirs IIRC.
None of what is currently being debated in the motions and hearings is in any way delaying the case or changing those two deadlines.
 
Could it be about him getting pulled over when he was traveling back to his home state?

No.

He was pulled over twice in Indiana and warned about driving too close to another vehicle.

I find it odd that this happened 2 X's in a row. I believe the FBI had the Indiana hwy partol pull him over to confirm it was him....How it seems to me.
 
My question was if anyone had ever seen a prosecutor state that the PCA is no longer relevant prior to trial?

Not sure I've seen a prosecutor state that, but legally, it is taught in law school that the probable cause affadavit has but one purpose (to obtain an arrest warrant; it does not have any relevance to conviction).

The State has filed charges against BK that it expects will lead to conviction. The conviction cannot be based on the PCA but must be based on all the evidence as presented at actual trial. This would include evidence obtained after the arrest (such as BK's actual DNA). In that sense, a prosecutor would be correct to say that the PCA has no relevance to the trial (for example, the whole trash diving thing that resulted in the PCA doesn't need to be brought up again - although it could be). A judge has to decide, based on arguments from both sides, what to allow in (using legal precedents).

So, if something is brought up at trial, it isn't because it was in the PCA, it is because it is now relevant to the trial. In Idaho (and most other states) the Court has to decide what to let in to the trial - and the Defense can challenge each piece of evidence as it comes up and has a duty to try and exclude any evidence that doesn't fit Idaho case law (or cases that have been appealed to higher courts). It's a kind of dance.

IMO.
 
Well, I think most people try hard to be their best at their chosen career. And most people do want to advance themselves in some way. She has to leave aside the deaths of four people in order to absolutely do her best defending a DP client.

I think she is frustrated and very reluctant to go to trial. Most of us know why (I know you know why). There's going to be so much more evidence and it is all going to be terribly damning. BK knows that. AT knows that.

So she stalls and does what she can. Other criminal defense attorneys are watching and taking notes - but if this continues to expand as the decades go by, we can reasonably expect that murder trials will take 5-8 years to happen. Or longer. So sad for the families. I'm not sure what can be done, aside from whoever organizes the state level of funding to put their foot down. The reason they have sealed her budget records, IMO, is to keep the good People of Idaho from finding out where all those dollars are going (it would outrage the public and bias the case, obviously).

It's such an odd stalemate. BK sits in jail (presumed innocent) but cannot provide the proof of alibi that would keep him from a murder trial - so he gets to sit there. Forever? Is that the plan? Poor Judge Judge.

Here is my conjecture: Judge Judge knows that DP cases take longer to get trial and has a good sense of what the outer limits might be (timewise). The Prosecution is ready to go. The Defense appears to be running in circles with the same types of complaints/motions over and over. At some point, this will all stop and it will go to trial (but not this March). I doubt it will be scheduled near the end of year holidays, either - so we're looking at early 2025 at best, and probably Spring 2025, at the rate things are going. THEN, there will be more haggles (AT will surely have the basic pre-trial motions, such as change of venue or change of judge - although she'd be dumb to swap out Judge Judge, who has bent over backwards for her). Summer 2025?

Anyone else want to guess?

IMO.
Great summation of motives of the defense as well as the probable timeline of
This case--- as you point out, so frustrating for the fami!ies-- I hate how defense
Attorneys exploit our courts--
 
The "perfect" juror for BK would be an older, grumpy, male who is distrustful of cell phones, technology, high school diploma, divorced, not a college graduate. Sort of a loner type, who could understand a person going out at night to look at stars.

<modsnip>

and younger loners who don't care about facts only identify with BK.
 
Well, I think most people try hard to be their best at their chosen career. And most people do want to advance themselves in some way. She has to leave aside the deaths of four people in order to absolutely do her best defending a DP client.

I think she is frustrated and very reluctant to go to trial. Most of us know why (I know you know why). There's going to be so much more evidence and it is all going to be terribly damning. BK knows that. AT knows that.

So she stalls and does what she can. Other criminal defense attorneys are watching and taking notes - but if this continues to expand as the decades go by, we can reasonably expect that murder trials will take 5-8 years to happen. Or longer. So sad for the families. I'm not sure what can be done, aside from whoever organizes the state level of funding to put their foot down. The reason they have sealed her budget records, IMO, is to keep the good People of Idaho from finding out where all those dollars are going (it would outrage the public and bias the case, obviously).

It's such an odd stalemate. BK sits in jail (presumed innocent) but cannot provide the proof of alibi that would keep him from a murder trial - so he gets to sit there. Forever? Is that the plan? Poor Judge Judge.

Here is my conjecture: Judge Judge knows that DP cases take longer to get trial and has a good sense of what the outer limits might be (timewise). The Prosecution is ready to go. The Defense appears to be running in circles with the same types of complaints/motions over and over. At some point, this will all stop and it will go to trial (but not this March). I doubt it will be scheduled near the end of year holidays, either - so we're looking at early 2025 at best, and probably Spring 2025, at the rate things are going. THEN, there will be more haggles (AT will surely have the basic pre-trial motions, such as change of venue or change of judge - although she'd be dumb to swap out Judge Judge, who has bent over backwards for her). Summer 2025?

Anyone else want to guess?

IMO.

It takes too long because of the DP. I'm following a case where a defendant is charged under the DP with 22 felonies, this includes 8 homicides, 4 aggravated burglary ....etc.....And he was arrested on November 13, 2018 and his trial wont happen until 2025.

6 1/2 years since arrest.
I live in a state that got rid of the DP and murder trials do not take this long when speedy trial is waived.

I don't agree with allowing the stalling. If she is stalling because she doesn't want to go to trial on a losing case then she shouldn't have taken this case. If she thinks he mudered 4 people she should want justice.

She has to say he is innocent because Bryan TELLS HER HE IS INNOCENT. She can't say anything else. She has no choice but to proceed as if he is the wrong person sitting in jail.

I believe she consults with Bryan on every Motion, all Motions are in his name. I believe he wants to drag it out and if he said:

"I'm tired of sitting in jail, let's get me to trial to prove me innocent" Then I believe she would be setting a trial date.

The judge thinks this is dragging out too long and I assume his hands are tied due to this being a DP case. Higher standards according to AT.

2 Cents
 
No.

He was pulled over twice in Indiana and warned about driving too close to another vehicle.

I find it odd that this happened 2 X's in a row. I believe the FBI had the Indiana hwy partol pull him over to confirm it was him....How it seems to me.

Agree, this was probably to see who was in the car and accidentally the 2nd trouper pulled him over because he didn't know the first trouper already had.

BOLO and pull over and don't give a ticket. Just give a warning. "Following too close", never heard of anyone getting pulled over for that.
 
Great summation of motives of the defense as well as the probable timeline of
This case--- as you point out, so frustrating for the fami!ies-- I hate how defense
Attorneys exploit our courts--
I just don’t get it. The Defense lawyer is doing her job. How is that exploiting the courts?

Let’s say defense lawyers are exploiting the courts. What would your solution be?

Every case I see where defense attorneys are actually doing their job and not rolling over for the prosecution and judge, people here talk about how awful they are.

IMO BK is guilty, from the evidence I see. However, I want him to have a fair trial with a vigorous defense. The only way to appeal proof his conviction will be AT doing her job, even if it offends people.
 
I just don’t get it. The Defense lawyer is doing her job. How is that exploiting the courts?

Let’s say defense lawyers are exploiting the courts. What would your solution be?

Every case I see where defense attorneys are actually doing their job and not rolling over for the prosecution and judge, people here talk about how awful they are.

IMO BK is guilty, from the evidence I see. However, I want him to have a fair trial with a vigorous defense. The only way to appeal proof his conviction will be AT doing her job, even if it offends people.
In cases like this, especially where guilt looks like a probability, the defenses' tactics are in part to delay delay delay- this case occurred in November 2022- Is there any really good reason the trial could take three years which is a real possibility? No there isn't. This trial could even take longer. Many other high profile cases take even longer to go to trial. So IMO doing her job (if that is what you want to call it) is delaying the trial as long as possible.
 
I just don’t get it. The Defense lawyer is doing her job. How is that exploiting the courts?

Let’s say defense lawyers are exploiting the courts. What would your solution be?

Every case I see where defense attorneys are actually doing their job and not rolling over for the prosecution and judge, people here talk about how awful they are.

IMO BK is guilty, from the evidence I see. However, I want him to have a fair trial with a vigorous defense. The only way to appeal proof his conviction will be AT doing her job, even if it offends people.

Not exploiting the courts, it is unnecessarily making the process more difficult and more expensive than necessary.

Money is a factor....2 Cents
 
No.

He was pulled over twice in Indiana and warned about driving too close to another vehicle.

I find it odd that this happened 2 X's in a row. I believe the FBI had the Indiana hwy partol pull him over to confirm it was him....How it seems to me.
So, you think the FBI lied or was playing semantics games or something else?

I admit I, too, was initially suspicious even though my gut told me there was no way in heck LE would allow a suspected mass murderer with a potential hostage/victim to take off footloose & fancy free from one side of the country to the other. The pushback from LE, including the FBI, convinced me otherwise.

Snip below comes from an article that was initially published at 4:18 pm (MT), June 8, 2023 & subsequently updated at 5:01 pm (MT), September 15, 2023:
Was FBI tailing Bryan Kohberger cross-country? Why Indiana police stopping him twice
IMG_2660.jpeg
 
So, you think the FBI lied or was playing semantics games or something else?

I admit I, too, was initially suspicious even though my gut told me there was no way in heck LE would allow a suspected mass murderer with a potential hostage/victim to take off footloose & fancy free from one side of the country to the other. The pushback from LE, including the FBI, convinced me otherwise.

Snip below comes from an article that was initially published at 4:18 pm (MT), June 8, 2023 & subsequently updated at 5:01 pm (MT), September 15, 2023:
Was FBI tailing Bryan Kohberger cross-country? Why Indiana police stopping him twice
View attachment 504327o

Wow...I can't believe there is something new....new to me.

I didn't buy the 2 stops in a row for close driving but I can buy .........

2 DRUG INTERDICTION CHECKS

interdiction
the action of intercepting and preventing the movement of a prohibited commodity or person
 
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So, you think the FBI lied or was playing semantics games or something else?

I admit I, too, was initially suspicious even though my gut told me there was no way in heck LE would allow a suspected mass murderer with a potential hostage/victim to take off footloose & fancy free from one side of the country to the other. The pushback from LE, including the FBI, convinced me otherwise.

Snip below comes from an article that was initially published at 4:18 pm (MT), June 8, 2023 & subsequently updated at 5:01 pm (MT), September 15, 2023:
Was FBI tailing Bryan Kohberger cross-country? Why Indiana police stopping him twice
View attachment 504327

Way back when this first happened, I recall wondering about this, as we all were at the time.

IMO though it was nothing but troopers on highway duty doing their job. Pulling over a heavy-footed driver.

If the FBI were trying to enact a sting, they would’ve stung then, rather than (as you’ve stated) allow him to drive away for the next few thousand miles.

It’s true too that they couldn’t know at the time if BK would take his dad hostage. They wouldn’t take that risk, IMO.

I cannot envision a scenario where a suspect in a quadruple murder is sent on his merry way, if the FBI at that time was following him.

JMO
 
Agree, this was probably to see who was in the car and accidentally the 2nd trouper pulled him over because he didn't know the first trouper already had.

BOLO and pull over and don't give a ticket. Just give a warning. "Following too close", never heard of anyone getting pulled over for that.

My mom was pulled over for tailgating. And it's a ticket that's contested frequently in the courts where I am, so it does happen.

But it usually means following REALLY close (and it was an early symptom of my mom's visual impairment).

It is weird, though, I agree.
 
My mom was pulled over for tailgating. And it's a ticket that's contested frequently in the courts where I am, so it does happen.

But it usually means following REALLY close (and it was an early symptom of my mom's visual impairment).

It is weird, though, I agree.

But as Nony pointed out is was drug checks. And when I think about it, it makes perfect sense to pull a car over with WASHINGTON STATE LICENSE PLATES.

The FBI were following BK and knew his exact car. I don't think the FBI needed to have Indiana troopers identify him.
 
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Maybe the FBI didn't order it. A different authority did.

I'll always wonder.

JMO
I'm not surprised if it was a drug check. There are certain freeway corridors that are full of drug mules carrying large amounts of drugs from state to state. LE routinely pull over certain 'types' of vehicles and passengers. Two males in a nondescript passenger car cruising along the interstate....
 
But as Nony pointed out is was drug checks. And when I think about it, it makes perfect sense to pull a car over with WASHINGTON STATE LICENSE PLATES.

The FBI were following BK and knew his exact car. I don't think the FBI needed to have Indiana troopers identify him.

I agree, I think it was just a fluke because BK is a bad driver and he had an out of state plate. And THC is still illegal in Indiana.
 
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