6-21-12 Court Appearance

[sinwonderland]

This article has a sketch from court today.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/...ctor-cannibalism-murder-idINDEE85K0HB20120621

 

[fittzi]

An MD licensed to practice here (Canada) would be required to make the assessment. The assessment and diagnosis of a German DR would have no bearing here legally.

My guess is that he was previously diagnosed by and under the care of a qualified physician in Canada, negating the need for an evaluation. I suspect that his diagnosis has already been established beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Shimmers]

I'll be keeping up. I'm sure I'll still be Googling all the time, too. I want to know who Eric Newman is. My brain craves answers to what kind of person can do what he's done. Obviously all of ours do... and I might be risking being bashed when I say this but I think I'm going to write to him. Not about what he's done or why he's done it, but to know who he is.

Well, then we re gonna be bashed together my friend :woohoo:
I think I'm not gonna write him, but it has crossed my mind manny, manny times ( yes pun is intented ), what would have happened if I would've met him and we started talking. Would all the red flags show up? Would he be meek, just as his german lawyer discribes him.... Note that i am NOT a fan in any way, I'm just too curious.

 

[Sierra20]

My guess is that he was previously diagnosed by and under the care of a qualified physician in Canada, negating the need for an evaluation. I suspect that his diagnosis has already been established beyond a reasonable doubt.

This would make sense as to why he is pleading not guilty but also does not need the psych evaluation! I have had trouble making any sense of this up until now...

 

[Sillybilly]

so now what? we just sit back & wait for 3/13?

Pretty much. I wonder how many will actually still be following this case in 9 months from now with the same vehemence we are showing now? I'm betting few.

We have long memories jeanne ... we waited 3 years for justice for Tori. I believe most of us will be here to wait for and see justice for Lin Jun.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

If they're going for an insanity defense it won't help at all IMO. He wasn't transferred to a hospital in Berlin following their evaluation. By not sharing whatever it was in court with the judge, he can't determine if LM has a mental defect or not and in Canada its the judge who gets to decide, not any one MD, especially not one who isn't licensed in Canada.

We don't know where or how he was assessed, other than it was in Berlin.

Today was just a hearing and no evidence was presented wrt LRM's psyche.

The judge doesn't decide whether LRM is insane or not, and we don't even know for certain if that is the defence that will be presented. There will probably be a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial (or the defence could waive the preliminary and go directly to trial). Evidence will then be presented, including testimony by expert witnesses (and that could include experts worldwide ... they do not have to be Canadian, just qualifed as an expert witness.)

ETA: Thanks and Yes to the posters who have mentioned any psychiatric/psychological counselling and/or treatment he previously has had. Maybe they don't even need any input from the Berlin doctor. Could well be that there is extensive documentation already.

 

[Sillybilly]

Well... truth be told I knew weeks ago that he was prescribed that Rx... LRM himself put the name of it out there all over the net.

Just for kicks & grins Google his name in " " along with the name of the medication in " " for any date prior to today and see how many hits you get.

IMO... that is public knowledge provided by the patient/defendant himself and there is no way to un-ring that bell.

It was discussed in some of the much earlier threads. IIRC, there is only the one online reference that LRM made to that particular drug (while it may have been copied elsewhere). Maybe someone else has a better recall on this particular aspect?

 

[otto]

Pretty much. I wonder how many will actually still be following this case in 9 months from now with the same vehemence we are showing now? I'm betting few.

It's just like any case. Dates will be set, the case will wind through the system, eventually there will be a trial and then it will be all over the news as evidence is made public. People's lives go on, but there will be interest in the outcome at trial time.

 

[~n/t~]

An MD licensed to practice here (Canada) would be required to make the assessment. The assessment and diagnosis of a German DR would have no bearing here legally. I'm inclined to believe he may not have been given the option of having or not having the psych assessment done in Germany. It was protocol for them and it was done. I'm inclined to believe it was an assessment of his suicide risk and any other risk he might pose to himself and others while in captivity and not a thorough forensic evaluation of his psyche.
That type of assessment would take the 31 days his lawyer originally asked for. If he were completely mentally healthy, such an assessment could have worked in his defense favor IMO.

It sounds to me like he's playing lawyer for himself although I have no idea why.

I'm not surprised he is. Some predicted he would be representing himself and this is his way of controlling the situation. He's a narcissist. I wouldn't expect anything less. :moo:

 

[~n/t~]

My guess is that he was previously diagnosed by and under the care of a qualified physician in Canada, negating the need for an evaluation. I suspect that his diagnosis has already been established beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm not so sure about that. I think if that were the case, the prosecution would have jumped on this opportunity to have him evaluated by court appointed psychiatrists.

I think Eric Newman thinks he has this all under control. Just like he won't tell where the head is.........for now.:moo:

 

[~n/t~]

I'm not a lawyer but it would seem to me if I thought my client was insane, the first thing I'd do would be to have him 'formed' so that I might act in his best interests without requiring his permission to do so.
Earlier today before court, the media tells us his lawyer was going to request an extended psych evaluation as well he should have. Then we're told that no psych evaluation was requested by the defense but some assessment done in Germany was handed over to the judge who also didn't order a psych evaluation after receiving it. Hmmmmm.

I'm thinking that if LM was unable to appreciate his actions, the situation etc then these 2 people had a moral, ethical and even legal obligation to provide for the mentally ill person, his mandatory psych evaluation. He is after all an IUPG sick person.

I can only assume that he is fit to take full responsibility for his actions once convicted. Good!

Exactly!

 

[~n/t~]

See, the problem I have with all of this is that being held "not criminally responsible" gives ZERO justice to the victim, and the loved ones of the victim. All it says is boo hoo, feel sorry for the perpetrator, the buck stops with whatever problem they have that is to blame for their actions.

That is a LEGAL SYSTEM, it has sweet FA to do with any form of real justice, and adding shady defense lawyers into the equation who are looking for a "win" on their personal scorecard especially when they know full well they are trying to stack the deck... none of that offers any peace or justice to those left behind.

Is LM sick? Of course he is! Do healthy, stable people commit such indecent, horrific crimes? Captain Obvious! Does that mean he had no idea about the pain, the revulsion and the consequences of his actions? Don't make me laugh. This is the person who planned to do this shocking and unimaginable crime to guarentee himself in the ranks of other depraved murderers. 2 weeks before the crime, he tried to get his own sick PR machine going, asking about the yet unmade video by his chosen title online. He stated after torturing and killing the animals that "he'd be back" and this time, the victim would be human!

Does that sound like a mentally healthy person? No it doesn't. Does it sound like he knew what he was doing, what he was planning to do, what he actually did?

I have precious little sympathy for the criminally "insane". Like it or not, it was because of their actions, the crime was commited. They need to pay. Medication, therapy, crayons and gluesticks to express their inner child, singing kumbaya and making macaroni crafts doesn't change squat for the victim. Jail offers the only form of solace and closure as PUNISHMENT for crime.

:clap:

 

[fittzi]

I'm not so sure about that. I think if that were the case, the prosecution would have jumped on this opportunity to have him evaluated by court appointed psychiatrists.:

Curious as to why you think this - would you mind explaining? TIA

 

[DD_bwest]

does anyone know where i can find the full video of todays defence press con? i vaguely remember hearing during that, that it was a canadian doctor that was in germany.. but i might have been hearing things.. i wanna go back and check but idno where it would be.. as i saw it on tv live..

edit: nvm i found it.. its hard to tell what is being talked about at the very beginning, but it sounds like he says dr thomas bart, canadian citizen in germany.. im not what implications itll have if it was a canadian doctor.. jsut found it interesting.. also "oops"(cant say that..) would explain the way LRM looked getting off the plain..

 

[~n/t~]

Curious as to why you think this - would you mind explaining? TIA

Even in psychiatry there are differing opinions on diagnosis. If Eric Newman was diagnosed with schizophrenia as an example and the prosecution team has information that he was diagnosed with this disease, IMO they could have requested to have a court appointed psychiatrist evaluate him. The fact they didn't submit such a request (so far) perhaps their strategy is to attack the defense's possible mental illness theory and bring on their own experts to rebut the defense's expert's theory.

We may have a battle of mental health forensics experts at trial. The publication ban was requested by the prosecution which leads me to believe they've already investigated their findings.

We still don't know if he was prescribed the meds here or in Germany and that may be another issue that will be brought up at trial. It will be interesting.

 

[Sillybilly]

Surely it's the former, else they would not be asking the court to ensure that he is taking them now.

Defence lawyers have a way of putting a spin on something to try to make folks believe certain things. To our knowledge Leclair didn't have to present one iota of supporting documentation while putting it in the minds of all those in the courtroom that his client's medication will be somehow responsible for any crimes he may have committed.

It could well be just that, but ... caveat when listening to defence lawyers !! Just because he has hinted at the direction they will go, he is not locked into anything by what was said in court today.

JMOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Even in psychiatry there are differing opinions on diagnosis. If Eric Newman was diagnosed with schizophrenia as an example and the prosecution team has information that he was diagnosed with this disease, IMO they could have requested to have a court appointed psychiatrist evaluate him. The fact they didn't submit such a request (so far) perhaps their strategy is to attack the defense's possible mental illness theory and bring on their own experts to rebut the defense's expert's theory.

We may have a battle of mental health forensics experts at trial. The publication ban was requested by the prosecution which leads me to believe they've already investigated their findings.

We still don't know if he was prescribed the meds here or in Germany and that may be another issue that will be brought up at trial. It will be interesting.

If LRM has any mental illness, it seems the prosecution isn't buying it.

In the case of Vince Li, it was quickly agreed between the prosecution and the defence that VL was NCR. The trial lasted only 2 days with only 2 witnesses presented.

ETA: I guess what I just said above doesn't support anything. Obviously the prosecution still went to trial with Vince Li ... just that by that time, the NCR was obvious to both sides. We could still see the same thing with LRM (although IMO, the prosecution will fight this one tooth and nail).

 

[~n/t~]

If LRM has any mental illness, it seems the prosecution isn't buying it.

In the case of Vince Li, it was quickly agreed between the prosecution and the defence that VL was NCR. The trial lasted only 2 days with only 2 witnesses presented.

I agree. They already have the goods on him, imo

 

[Sillybilly]

I agree. They already have the goods on him, imo

See my ETA above ~n/t~

Vince Li's trial was so short that I had actually forgotten that it was in fact a trial. Of course there was a trial in order for him to plead Not Guilty and ultimately have a judge to find him Guilty but NCR.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Maybe they're going for the 'Manny defense"

Is that like the Xanny the Nanny defense?