Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

[FrostedGlass]

I thought of appellate attorney CW .....

She's an appeal attorney; I assume the issue of keeping accurate court records is very important to her, no matter whose case it is.

 

[layer]

She's an appeal attorney; I assume the issue of keeping accurate court records is very important to her, no matter whose case it is.

It's all about building the record.

 

[DeDee]

Was it “Delphi Murders the Lost Documentary” with Fig.Solves?

Thank you. I had not seen it and was worth it. I have the same issue with them crossing Deer Creek as the host does. The helicopter footage showed that the divers and firemen, volunteers, etc were walking arm in arm in Deer Creek on morning of Feb 14 because DC current flowed rapidly. The water was waist deep.

In all of these years, my mind has not been able to successfully allow all three to cross the creek filled with cold water, then shimmy up that steep embankment to Logan's. The gifted videographer allowed us to see how wide open the CS was to everywhere around them.

Maybe a vehicle awaited them DTH at the private drive and not to the creek. Then, the vehicle drove around to park at the back of the cemetery and the girls were marched to their final CS which is so very near the edge of the cemetery property line. A trail is not far away. Deer roam those woods.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Whenever I see something of importance on the internet, I try to confirm it myself. Such a thing sent me on a search of the media source Journal & Courier and below is one of the results Google came back with. I think this article will answer any questions regarding Nick's knowledge regarding sealed ex parte motions and orders.
However, the article is behind a subscription wall.

Sealed order issued on Richard Allen's ex parte motions
Journal & Courier
Journal & Courier › news › crime › 2023/01/27

Jan 27, 2023 — Judge issued an ex parte order in the case of Richard Allen, charged with murder in the killings of Libby German and Abby Williams on Feb.

 

[TL4S]

Whenever I see something of importance on the internet, I try to confirm it myself. Such a thing sent me on a search of the media source Journal & Courier and below is one of the results Google came back with. I think this article will answer any questions regarding Nick's knowledge regarding sealed ex parte motions and orders.
However, the article is behind a subscription wall.

Sealed order issued on Richard Allen's ex parte motions
Journal & Courier
Journal & Courier › news › crime › 2023/01/27

Jan 27, 2023 — Judge issued an ex parte order in the case of Richard Allen, charged with murder in the killings of Libby German and Abby Williams on Feb.

There is also this same language in her 6/28/23 order.

06/28/2023

Order Issued The Court has reviewed the electronic file recently and discovered many pleadings and filings have been marked as sealed and confidential, and, therefore, unavailable to the public The Court has consulted with Counsel for the State of Indiana and the Defense and discovered the pleadings have been deemed confidential to comply with the Court Order dated December 2, 2022 which prohibits public comment, commonly referred to as the "Gag Order". Counsel agree with the Court that the public interest is best served by transparency, but that certain pleadings should remain sealed. Counsel agree that the original, unredacted Affidavit for Probable Cause shall remain sealed as it lists names of juvenile witnesses; that the Transport Orders previously entered (and future Orders) shall remain sealed for security purposes; and that the Defense Ex Parte Motions and related Orders shall remain sealed pursuant to long established case law. All other pleadings filed prior to the date of this Order shall be unsealed and available to the public, except for the pleadings explicitly mentioned in this paragraph. Future pleadings and filings that are to be confidential shall comply with Court rules. Further, the Court has consulted with the Clerk of the Carroll Circuit Court about the impact of this Order on her office and staff, and the public interest in the pleadings which are being made available. As hundreds of pages of documents are being unsealed, this may create obstacles to the Clerk and the public. To ease the burden on the Clerk of the Court, and to ensure accessibility, the Court will make copies of the now public pleadings available at allensuperiorcourt.us/Delphi. John McGauley, Allen Superior Court, Court Executive has created this page on the Court's website to make these pleadings easily accessible to the public, the media, and the parties. This link should be active within hours of the issuance of this Order Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 06/28/2023

 

[layer]

Thank you. I had not seen it and was worth it. I have the same issue with them crossing Deer Creek as the host does. The helicopter footage showed that the divers and firemen, volunteers, etc were walking arm in arm in Deer Creek on morning of Feb 14 because DC current flowed rapidly. The water was waist deep.

In all of these years, my mind has not been able to successfully allow all three to cross the creek filled with cold water, then shimmy up that steep embankment to Logan's. The gifted videographer allowed us to see how wide open the CS was to everywhere around them.

Maybe a vehicle awaited them DTH at the private drive and not to the creek. Then, the vehicle drove around to park at the back of the cemetery and the girls were marched to their final CS which is so very near the edge of the cemetery property line. A trail is not far away. Deer roam those woods.

I might have to watch that drone/helicopter video again. I thought the sandbar area split the creek and spread it out so it was shallow enough that you could go through only about ankle deep water. But it's been 7 years, so my memory's spotty.

Eta:
I do remember the part where there were about 8 or 10 guys wearing red, linked arm in arm, in water that was nearly up their chests. If I recall they were going against the current, and my impression was they were looking upstream for something.

 

[Boxer]

Thank you. I had not seen it and was worth it. I have the same issue with them crossing Deer Creek as the host does. The helicopter footage showed that the divers and firemen, volunteers, etc were walking arm in arm in Deer Creek on morning of Feb 14 because DC current flowed rapidly. The water was waist deep.

In all of these years, my mind has not been able to successfully allow all three to cross the creek filled with cold water, then shimmy up that steep embankment to Logan's. The gifted videographer allowed us to see how wide open the CS was to everywhere around them.

Maybe a vehicle awaited them DTH at the private drive and not to the creek. Then, the vehicle drove around to park at the back of the cemetery and the girls were marched to their final CS which is so very near the edge of the cemetery property line. A trail is not far away. Deer roam those woods.

There is a sandbar in the middle of Deer Creek. It effectively splits the creek in two.
Walking through the water to the soith east end of the sandbar, walking along the sandbar to the north west end and then crossing that split of the creek is far different than crossing the full creek.

 

[AugustWest]

Why would an appellate attorney (CW) whose representation and case to the SCOIN is over even consider it her responsibility to serve as official records custodian?

This is the thing that has me perplexed. It appears to me they all want to stay involved and spotlighted on SM, talk shows, etc as connected to this case. I have never seen this before, maybe it's bringing in some additional $$$ business for them. IDK

jmo

@girlhasnoname

I thought you (and others) would recognize my quoted statement as tongue in cheek. I don't actually think CW is an official records custodian.

As far as her continued involvement, I assume that she has an interest in the subject matter of the case and the issues surrounding it. And just like you and I, I assume she enjoys discussing these issues with others and considering opinions outside her own on same. I haven't seen her on "talk shows;" I can't comment to that.

Further, I will remind you that an attorneys' representation does not end with the resolution of a judicial matter; attorneys carry the clientele they accumulate for life. She has a continuing and perpetual duty to her client that doesn't rely on being paid. Once an attorney takes a client, they take the client for life.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don't understand at all, why RA has 3 attorneys at his disposal. I couldn't find an explanation until now, and I have to ask here on forum, sorry.

ETA: Is someone mysterious paying for RA's defense??

Courtesy of the ever-mysterious State of Indiana.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

Courtesy of the ever-mysterious State of Indiana.

jmo

Pauper defense- I think three attorneys are required for a capital defense.

 

[girlhasnoname]

@girlhasnoname

I thought you (and others) would recognize my quoted statement as tongue in cheek. I don't actually think CW is an official records custodian.

As far as her continued involvement, I assume that she has an interest in the subject matter of the case and the issues surrounding it. And just like you and I, I assume she enjoys discussing these issues with others and considering opinions outside her own on same. I haven't seen her on "talk shows;" I can't comment to that.

Further, I will remind you that an attorneys' representation does not end with the resolution of a judicial matter; attorneys carry the clientele they accumulate for life. She has a continuing and perpetual duty to her client that doesn't rely on being paid. Once an attorney takes a client, they take the client for life.

No worries, sometimes it's hard to gauge the tone in written form.

I guess I hold CW to a higher standard than us true crime keyboard warriors. Considering RA was indeed once a client of hers, I hoped that would help refrain her from delving into into the SM cesspool.

I sincerely did not know that about an attorney taking a client for life. So if RA were to need an appellate attorney again CW would be bound to take him on even pro bono if he doesn't have the money to pay for her representation? That's very interesting, thanks for sharing.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

There is a sandbar in the middle of Deer Creek. It effectively splits the creek in two.
Walking through the water to the soith east end of the sandbar, walking along the sandbar to the north west end and then crossing that split of the creek is far different than crossing the full creek.

Yes, I remember searchers being shown walking on that sandbar and the water at that time wasn't even up to their knees.

MOO

 

[AugustWest]

No worries, sometimes it's hard to gauge the tone in written form.

I guess I hold CW to a higher standard than us true crime keyboard warriors. Considering RA was indeed once a client of hers, I hoped that would help refrain her from delving into into the SM cesspool.

I sincerely did not know that about an attorney taking a client for life. So if RA were to need an appellate attorney again CW would be bound to take him on even pro bono if he doesn't have the money to pay for her representation? That's very interesting, thanks for sharing.

JMO

She isn't bound to take him as a client in the future, but nevertheless retains a duty to not act in a manner materially adverse to a former client. For example, no conflicts of interest, no breeches of confidentiality, etc...

See: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...duties_of_former_clients/comment_on_rule_1_9/

Particularly the comments of above.

 

[Betty P]

Why would an appellate attorney (CW) whose representation and case to the SCOIN is over even consider it her responsibility to serve as official records custodian?

This is the thing that has me perplexed. It appears to me they all want to stay involved and spotlighted on SM, talk shows, etc as connected to this case. I have never seen this before, maybe it's bringing in some additional $$$ business for them. IDK

jmo

Even if they're no longer attached to the case, they should respect the legal process and avoid talking about inside information on social media, podcasts, tv, etc. until the trial is over. IANAL, so may not be aware that its acceptable professional practice.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, I remember searchers being shown walking on that sandbar and the water at that time wasn't even up to their knees.

MOO

Yes Google earth absolutely shows a large sandbar near where the girls were found.
I do recall searchers also walking in deeper areas searching for items in deeper places.
The fact that their clothing was easily spotted in the water near the crime scene further leads me to believe that the water was shallow and very mild current.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I don't understand at all, why RA has 3 attorneys at his disposal. I couldn't find an explanation until now, and I have to ask here on forum, sorry.

ETA: Is someone mysterious paying for RA's defense??

I don't understand your question as I do think you know that taxpayers are paying for both the prosecution and defense of RA. Public defense is supposed to attempt to level the playing field. Consider that the prosecutor has a staff and 2 additional attorneys that assist with this case, 2 investigators, 2 secretaries (an extra $2 million-dollar special budget). The prosecutor has labs, experts, and LE at his disposal.

If RA is convicted, and a less than adequate defense was afforded him, the victims are not served because the appeal (REQUIRED by law) will be complicated.
Personally, I'm disgusted that Carroll County has taken unnecessary chances in this trial.

 

[Emma Peel]

Questions raised about how Delphi murders prosecutor learned information in private defense motion


March 9th 10 AM - WTHR Indiana continues with its Delphi trial reporting adding to & updating former reporting

 

[Ravenmoon]

Questions raised about how Delphi murders prosecutor learned information in private defense motion

FYI:
march 8 -PM news reporting update

The Ex Parte motion was not filled with a seal, just like the FM. That made this document available to all of the attorneys.

Wouldn't that be the fault of the defense?

 

[layer]

Yes Google earth absolutely shows a large sandbar near where the girls were found.
I do recall searchers also walking in deeper areas searching for items in deeper places.
The fact that their clothing was easily spotted in the water near the crime scene further leads me to believe that the water was shallow and very mild current.

I'm looking for better screens to grab.

 

[TL4S]

All JMO and my own interpretation of things. To place the blame for this ex parte situation at the feet of the Defense is dismissing the real problem here, IMO. Even if the ex parte motions were mistakenly placed on the docket unsealed (by the Defense, the clerk, whoever), they were marked as ex parte and according to established case law, and JG's own orders, Prosecutor NMcL was not supposed to look at them. Not only did NMcL look at them, several of them, he openly admitted to doing so in his motion, and further went on to quote from it, naming the D's requested expert within that public motion. Withdrawing his motion later, noting how the ex parte motions were visible to him, does not erase the fact that he unfortunately broke rules he should have known better. IMO, this will have to be addressed appropriately or will lead to problems down the line. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the circumstances, however. JMO.