Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[Salah11]

I would also think that the families of these girls would want the right person/persons to be convicted. We can't know their thoughts on RA=BG= ACCUSED/NOT CONVICTED.

JMO

Soon to be convicted imo

Children will be free to play without the fear of a vile predator lurking in the shadows.

 

[snooptroop88]

I'd gladly read a book by anyone involved in this case. I wish I knew why JG refused D funds, and I would think eventually (?) we'll find out, but I'm as curious as can be as to why.

I have started to tilt even more heavily towards the idea that RA is BG, but I'm not certain, and may never be certain. I know the jury's threshold is "reasonable doubt." Mine is pretty much "certainty," lol, so no P would ever want me on a jury. let's put it that way. Unless there's really "certainty."

I do agree that process itself is attacked more and more in these trials, and in terms of the number of cases where you see that occurring, it's often not warranted, MOO obviously. I have really enjoyed being on this site and getting so much information on the case. There's no way I could get it through MSM. About 39 days or so till trial now.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Heads you win, tails I lose. If RA came forward after the images were released it could equally be seen as "he came forward because he figured he would be recognized so he wanted to get ahead of it."

I like them odds.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

MOO RA is BG. He killed the girls.
Is currently benefiting from a movement among defense attorneys who are mounting defenses everywhere based in attacking process.

It's fine to have an opinion, but not so much when some try to sway others or berate their thoughts. I don't expect you (or anyone here) to agree with my opinion and when it's all said and done no one gets a trophy for winning. When kids are killed... no one wins! For me, it's not a contest. I am not being snarky, just honest.

 

[zh0r4]

What's the basis for her denying them/D? Does anyone know?

I believe that is why it is typical for judges to have hearings and/or cite case law when they rule, so we know the whys. This case and the judge, seem pretty atypical. JMO.

 

[zh0r4]

I'd gladly read a book by anyone involved in this case. I wish I knew why JG refused D funds, and I would think eventually (?) we'll find out, but I'm as curious as can be as to why.

I have started to tilt even more heavily towards the idea that RA is BG, but I'm not certain, and may never be certain. I know the jury's threshold is "reasonable doubt." Mine is pretty much "certainty," lol, so no P would ever want me on a jury. let's put it that way. Unless there's really "certainty."

I do agree that process itself is attacked more and more in these trials, and in terms of the number of cases where you see that occurring, it's often not warranted, MOO obviously. I have really enjoyed being on this site and getting so much information on the case. There's no way I could get it through MSM. About 39 days or so till trial now.

Snipped from the linked article:

bbm

“The Carroll County Council has pegged the cost at the anticipated double murder trial of accused killer Richard Allen of Delphi at $2.1 million.

Councilors are setting aside $1,535,000 for personnel services, $530,000 for “other services” and $35,000 for supplies.

Last November, Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland told the council he might need to hire another prosecutor to work by his side in preparation of the case against Allen, who is accused of killing teenage friends Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge along the banks of Deer Creek on February 13, 2017.”

Source:

Delphi double murder trial costs pegged at $2.1M

Councilors are setting aside $1,535,000 for personnel services, $530,000 for “other services” and $35,000 for supplies.

fox59.com

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Soon to be convicted imo

Children will be free to play without the fear of a vile predator lurking in the shadows.

Yep, if and when that right killer/killers gets convicted.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'd gladly read a book by anyone involved in this case. I wish I knew why JG refused D funds, and I would think eventually (?) we'll find out, but I'm as curious as can be as to why.

I have started to tilt even more heavily towards the idea that RA is BG, but I'm not certain, and may never be certain. I know the jury's threshold is "reasonable doubt." Mine is pretty much "certainty," lol, so no P would ever want me on a jury. let's put it that way. Unless there's really "certainty."

I do agree that process itself is attacked more and more in these trials, and in terms of the number of cases where you see that occurring, it's often not warranted, MOO obviously. I have really enjoyed being on this site and getting so much information on the case. There's no way I could get it through MSM. About 39 days or so till trial now.

The saddest part for me, is that after this case is concluded, there will always be the next one.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Just a few thoughts.
JG has not denied every motion the defense has filed. It’s possible, that the ones that were denied were denied for valid reasons.
The defense attorneys in this case have lied to the judge multiple times, ignored the gag order and protective order, failed to report accidentally emailing protected discovery to the wrong person to the court, lied and fabricated stories about RA’s conditions in prison, lied and misrepresented facts, statements, interviews, depositions in multiple motions and filings, openly accused people of murder, perpetuated leaks of protected discovery, leaked crime scene photos of two young girls.
Why are people excusing their behavior? They did this. They were this bad. One of their own witnesses called them out for their deceitfulness.
Even if people are mad at how things are going in court, and sometimes things don’t go your way in court, and it has nothing to do with conspiracies, even if people vehemently believe in RA’s innocence, how can people accept this behavior…from anybody…in any job? Would you accept it from your lawyer? From your accountant? From your child’s teacher? I sure wouldn’t.

 

[susiQ]

Snipped from the linked article:

bbm

“The Carroll County Council has pegged the cost at the anticipated double murder trial of accused killer Richard Allen of Delphi at $2.1 million.

Councilors are setting aside $1,535,000 for personnel services, $530,000 for “other services” and $35,000 for supplies.

Last November, Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland told the council he might need to hire another prosecutor to work by his side in preparation of the case against Allen, who is accused of killing teenage friends Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge along the banks of Deer Creek on February 13, 2017.”

Source:

Delphi double murder trial costs pegged at $2.1M

Councilors are setting aside $1,535,000 for personnel services, $530,000 for “other services” and $35,000 for supplies.

fox59.com

NM also told the council that he needed another secretary and a second investigatior too! And, he’d have to up his current secretary’s salary to match the one he was about to hire. Oh, and he needed all this to go to trial because the D hard “unlimited resources,” lol! I don’t want to be too harsh, but I think he lied about that. JG is definitely not handing out unlimited “resources.” She’s not even giving them what is needed to mount a decent defence!

 

[zh0r4]

If the courts had a hearing for EVERY motion filed, we would be even more behind than ever. It doesn't work like that.


The P does not have a motherload. Carroll County is a relatively poor area. Here is a City Council meeting that was called in order to budget some of the high expenses needed for the upcoming trial:

They seemed like they were just eeking out some meager payments, not at all throwing generous amounts to the prosecution.

We don't KNOW that for sure. ALL defense attorneys say that.


According to the video above , the prosecution also makes a measly 100 bucks an hour.

The D may be cashing in, but not from the 100 bucks an hour. They may be expecting to make a name for themselves from the visibility of this hifi profile case. If they succeed in getting RA freed, they can expect to rake in top dollar in future cases.

Defense attorneys CANNOT 'call it a day' and walk away, even if they knew the client was guilty. Guilt or innocence has no bearing on their duties as a defense attorney. Our Justice System is based upon ALL defendants receiving a vigorous defense.

From my understanding:

The D has to file and ask the judge for any extra expense, whereas the P does not have to file and ask the judge for any extra expense. In this city council meeting from March 23, 2020, NM says the “defense has unlimited resources…..which could put him at a disadvantage” (sic) @21:00 min. He acknowledges the D has to ask the judge for those resources, which the P does not have to do. Contrary to his statement the D has unlimited resources, they obviously do not, since they haven’t been approved for the majority of experts they’ve requested and which the state has for their case. My understanding is usually judges approve expert witnesses for the D when the P has their own experts for the same thing (presumably for a fair trial).

The state has a budget of $2.1 million, and can be reimbursed 40% of the defense related expenses only. The taxpayers are paying for RA’s unconstitutional (without a trial) imprisonment.

Source for $2 million budget:

Delphi double murder trial costs pegged at $2.1M

Councilors are setting aside $1,535,000 for personnel services, $530,000 for “other services” and $35,000 for supplies.

fox59.com

JMO

According to Hennessy, Judge Gull has capped the defense budget for investigators at $6K.

Source: Attorney Hennessy interview 6 days ago

 

[layer]

...even if people vehemently believe in RA’s innocence...

I haven't seen anyone here that vehemently believes RA is innocent. Speak up if I missed you!
Some want to make sure RA isn't being railroaded. Some want to see all the facts before they try to determine guilt. Some question the validity of some of the state's evidence and the quality of the investigation. I'm probably a combination of all those.

 

[layer]

Children will be free to play without the fear of a vile predator lurking in the shadows.

Sadly, I'm afraid those days are gone. If they ever existed.
Maybe I just read too much on here

 

[sunshineray]

At least NM knows he’s getting a paycheck at the end of the week without having to wait for JG to grant it. And, lots of buckso deluxos for his experts. His paycheck likely comes automatic deposit. No waiting for him to pay his mortgage. The D should be so lucky.

Well, these defence attorneys could have called it a day, courtesy of JG had they accepted her disqualification without a proper hearing. They didn’t. They fought back. They had to go to SCOIN to be reinstated as RA’s attorneys. Good on them!
JMO

They weren't disqualified, they withdrew.

 

[sunshineray]

MOO RA is BG. He killed the girls.
Is currently benefiting from a movement among defense attorneys who are mounting defenses everywhere based in attacking process.

And somehow get the public to send them money. They meet that goal and then raise it asking for more money. That seems to be a pattern also in the past 5 years. MO

 

[sunshineray]

I haven't seen anyone here that vehemently believes RA is innocent. Speak up if I missed you!
Some want to make sure RA isn't being railroaded. Some want to see all the facts before they try to determine guilt. Some question the validity of some of the state's evidence and the quality of the investigation. I'm probably a combination of all those.

And some see a grossly negligent defense.

 

[sunshineray]

I haven't seen anyone here that vehemently believes RA is innocent. Speak up if I missed you!
Some want to make sure RA isn't being railroaded. Some want to see all the facts before they try to determine guilt. Some question the validity of some of the state's evidence and the quality of the investigation. I'm probably a combination of all those.

Who's made this case a pre-trial side show, the defense or the prosecution?

 

[mrjitty]

Just a few thoughts.
JG has not denied every motion the defense has filed. It’s possible, that the ones that were denied were denied for valid reasons.

Yes. In fact we just had a hearing on the motion to dismiss!

The defense attorneys in this case have lied to the judge multiple times, ignored the gag order and protective order, failed to report accidentally emailing protected discovery to the wrong person to the court, lied and fabricated stories about RA’s conditions in prison, lied and misrepresented facts, statements, interviews, depositions in multiple motions and filings, openly accused people of murder, perpetuated leaks of protected discovery, leaked crime scene photos of two young girls.

This is where i think Gull is her own worst enemy. We just got an example of where, according to quotes from the witness Terco, the defense have falsely misrepresented him in the Franks. But if the Franks is indeed a work of selective quotes that misrepresent the exhibits - Gull should have highlighted this in a written judgement for the record. It's really important to do this.

I do think what has happened is between the safekeeping hearing, where she made adverse findings against the D, and the leak fiasco where it is apparent Baldwin at least misled her, if not actually lied, she's just got no time for this behaviour. But she should put it on the record to protect herself and the record. Like if the Terco thing is how it looks, it is critical she itemise the same on the record

Why are people excusing their behavior? They did this. They were this bad. One of their own witnesses called them out for their deceitfulness.
Even if people are mad at how things are going in court, and sometimes things don’t go your way in court, and it has nothing to do with conspiracies, even if people vehemently believe in RA’s innocence, how can people accept this behavior…from anybody…in any job? Would you accept it from your lawyer? From your accountant? From your child’s teacher? I sure wouldn’t.

I am old school, so my main concern is that they are jeopardising their client's case. It doesn't matter if they shred their credibility with me pre-trial, though with the judge is not helpful. But if they do something like this in front of the jury it will be a disaster.

I get the feeling with the mental health aspects now coming into discovery, they might be moving away from the idea that Odinist prison guards made him confess - was any jury ever going to believe that?

 

[Gardenista]

I believe that is why it is typical for judges to have hearings and/or cite case law when they rule, so we know the whys. This case and the judge, seem pretty atypical. JMO.

Not atypical. Hearings are rare as is the citing of case law in orders.

 

[mrjitty]

Not atypical. Hearings are rare as is the citing of case law in orders.

I don't know what common practice is in far flung counties of the US looks like, but I do believe in a case like this, the Judge is well advised to put detailed reasoning on the record. It bit her hard on the SCOIN proceedings. The most egregious alleged conduct of the defence was not on the record and she didn't record what she found on those issues.