Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[Spartygirl]

How could he have planned this when he didn’t know the girls, didn’t have any idea they’d be there that day, and there’s been zero evidence of anything connecting him with the girls?

No evidence yet.
And we don't know if he knew the girls or not
We really don't know everything --as it should be.

 

[EOA]

Can anyone figure out what this means? What exactly did the State provide in November? Just evidence that pings were generated, but didn't actually provide the evidence?

View attachment 500531

maybe has been answered already but I would read it as this:
— your first underline = in Nov’23 P provided D with a summary statement or very broad report noting AT&T discovered 44 pings from LG’s phone - with no when/where details divulged, or possibly an insinuation that the pings were from early-to-mid afternoon Feb 13 2017
— second underline = the D did not learn until last week that these pings were of the ‘every 15 minutes’ type. At 4 pings per minute we’re now talking possibly an 11-hour timeframe which is different than only say from 2:10pm to 3:50pm.
—But then they find out there appears to be a distinguishable break in the regular pings as separate information seems to indicate the last one on 2/13 was late afternoon or early evening while the earliest one on 2/14 was pre-sunrise. This leads to speculation of a move or perhaps second crime scene. Otherwise the break could only be explained by tge phone going off the night before but somehow on again in the AM.
—your last underline would suggest the D still doesn’t have the detail on exactly when and where the pings occurred from.

 

[TTF14]

maybe has been answered already but I would read it as this:
— your first underline = in Nov’23 P provided D with a summary statement or very broad report noting AT&T discovered 44 pings from LG’s phone - with no when/where details divulged, or possibly an insinuation that the pings were from early-to-mid afternoon Feb 13 2017
— second underline = the D did not learn until last week that these pings were of the ‘every 15 minutes’ type. At 4 pings per minute we’re now talking possibly an 11-hour timeframe which is different than only say from 2:10pm to 3:50pm.
—But then they find out there appears to be a distinguishable break in the regular pings as separate information seems to indicate the last one on 2/13 was late afternoon or early evening while the earliest one on 2/14 was pre-sunrise. This leads to speculation of a move or perhaps second crime scene. Otherwise the break could only be explained by tge phone going off the night before but somehow on again in the AM.
—your last underline would suggest the D still doesn’t have the detail on exactly when and where the pings occurred from.

Yes! Thank you! This is what I was wondering....they were basically provided with a summary statement but not the details. Like if the phone company sent me my bill with "you made 44 calls this month...here are the details on 2 of them..."

Thank you .

 

[Caylee Advocate]

You have no idea !!! LOL

Especially at the beginning.

I have an idea, and you are correct. Back then I pictured everyone but the Pope being BG. I drove many a poster crazy with PM's and my theories..

 

[WildHuncher]

I am not a profiler by any means but I think this crime was planned by RA. I am do not think that he ever planned on transporting them elsewhere as he parked too far away. I believe he planned to commit the crime where he did. I don’t believe he planned on being photographed and I don’t believe he knew he had been photographed until his photo came out by ISP.
I don’t think he had a reason to take or mess with the phone. To me once 3:30 came he had to get out and all other plans were canceled. Taking the phone would have been a risk. Messing with it could mean a risk.
I think he brought his own recording devices and I think it’s quite interesting that he used a camera to memorialize his assault and they used a camera to capture him the beginning of the assault. JMO
The devil always comes for his due.
I believe that SW found more than we would ever want to see or know.

JMO

Likely you’re right. Don’t know how he knew to be there. Hard to believe there’s no A-Shots connection. Maybe there is but the P doesn’t want to go there. Or maybe there just isn’t.

Don’t know how he controlled two of them with a bad bluff by himself, but he most likely did.

He shouldn’t have got away with it at all, much less for as long as he did.

I hope the P doesn’t make unforced errors. I hope the jury has little tolerance for legal shenanigans.

 

[TTF14]

I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding rude. I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone who has followed this crime closely thinks this was a lone wolf situation. Is it just that they only read MSM articles (which often take great liberty with "sources say" and don't quote LE directly/verbatim)? Do they watch the videos of interviews with LE (before a gag order) and really listen to what they're saying? Are they not reading the court documents and/or listening to experts reviewing them/explaining them? Maybe I'm just too obsessed with the case and its details, but I really just don't see how to make a lone wolf scenario work in my head.

They've said things like "complicated" "tentacles" "hope I can tell the story someday"..... Richard Allen has two arms and two legs....not tentacles.

IMO MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

I am not a profiler by any means but I think this crime was planned by RA. I am do not think that he ever planned on transporting them elsewhere as he parked too far away. I believe he planned to commit the crime where he did. I don’t believe he planned on being photographed and I don’t believe he knew he had been photographed until his photo came out by ISP.
I don’t think he had a reason to take or mess with the phone. To me once 3:30 came he had to get out and all other plans were canceled. Taking the phone would have been a risk. Messing with it could mean a risk.
I think he brought his own recording devices and I think it’s quite interesting that he used a camera to memorialize his assault and they used a camera to capture him the beginning of the assault. JMO
The devil always comes for his due.
I believe that SW found more than we would ever want to see or know.

JMO

Agreed on this! Planned all the way. No transport. Chose the location beforehand. Agreed on all.

Didn't know until too late photographed, not sure on that, but probably.

Didn't want to mess with the phone. Agreed generally, but I still find it difficult to believe he didn't recognize a pretty significant risk of recording/photograph. Maybe he weighed the risk of messing with the phone against the risk that actual recording had occurred. Maybe he did actually try to tamper with the phone but failed. Or maybe he's addicted to risk to some extent and figured he'd be brazen and leave it, & maybe he did it to taunt LE. If he did just miss the phone, that's a pretty sloppy maneuver for a murderer who did so much planning otherwise.

Not sure at all on his bringing recording devices, would tend to think not, but who knows at this point? Could well be the case.

Agree, and it always seemed most likely to me to be a stranger/stalker/lone wolf crime. I don't know if you could find 2 or more people weird enough to leave that crime scene.

Just totally, 100% on that one. Think there might be some possible "connection" to others but they're not at the scene.

 

[FromGermany1]

There comes a time in crime analysis when you have to set aside logic and reason for a period of time and just follow where the facts lead you. Then you try to make sense of it, in chorus with the facts. In this case, good luck with that.

I'm trying since months to make sense of it all, but I believe: I can't do it.

 

[FromGermany1]

True, but they weren't really trapped where they were killed either. Not by physical obstructions at least. Obviously they felt trapped. I think they both could have escaped if they wanted to, but by the time they wanted to it was too late.

I remember, that LE (was it DC??) said, the girls were sort of "manipulated" by BG. Maybe, another term was used. In any case it didn't mean "threatened" but rather "misled with words". So his gun wasn't the main part in this encounter of BG and the girls, but some sort of a lie was. That the girls didn't escape fast enough, although they would have been able perhaps, then makes sense. When they checked the real threat, it was too late. Maybe, BG was indeed the one, who took the photo of Abby (she is looking so embarrassed, IMO) and he first played "the friendly adult", who didn't have evil in mind?
I always can only imagine fragments of what happened, not the whole thing.

 

[Melted]

this is all just my opinion,

With the recent info about pings coming out I am very curious to see the entirety of the evidence. Libby’s family said in interviews “the phone stopped ringing through” after DG called it a 3rd time.

Libby’s father stated during an interview late at night on February 13,2017 or very early morning February 14, 2017 that Libby’s phone was “bouncing all over town”

<modsnip: rumors are not allowed>

I believe there is more that one suspect, I believe they didn’t know they were photographed. I believe they were after Abby’s phone. I believe they took the girls to a barn or shed near where the girls were murdered on February 13th. I believe they were brought to the crime scene (most likely from < 200 yards away) sometime between 2-5 am on the 14th and that is when they were murdered. I believe the suspect(s) turned Libby’s phone back on right after they staged the crime scene and before they left and put it in Libby’s shoe underneath Abby’s body so that no light could be seen coming from it if it were to be called. Again, I believe they had no idea they had been filmed and took Abby’s phone because of what she refused to erase (Libby had factory reset her phone that week)

All jmo

 

[Niner]

@Niner May 7 is the pre-trial hearing

05/01/2024

Order Issued Defendant's Motion for Pre-Trial Hearing and State's Motion in Limine set for hearing in the Allen Superior Court May 7, 2024, at 9:00 a.m. without objection by the defense, who consents to the venue. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed: 04/30/2024

Finally!! Thanks for the tag!

 

[katydid23]

True. It's just a heck of a coincidence right before trial! I'll be very surprised if it's not related.

IMO MOO

There is no time in a judge's life, that it isn't 'just before a trial.' And in fact, the ONLY time a judge can retire is 'just before a trial.'

 

[FrostedGlass]

What else have you missed?

"unique contempt" maybe?

IMO, The Judge has passed further review and decisions on possible sanctions to the named Board. Gull has found against contempt, found against willful and against intent, found against violating the gag order, found against violating the protective order, and is passing decisions as to sanctions for being sloppy, etc. to that Board - likely b/c of Trial timing and to avoid "the appearance of bias".

She's washed her hands of the matter. Sort of.

JMHO

"Unique Contempt" How did I miss that one?! Is that something Nick made up?

She could have kept her decision sealed until after the trial was over, couldn't she?

My opinion on JG's findings is she took the Ausbrook filing seriously but just couldn't walk away from the contempt charge empty-handed. After the show she and Nick put on, she almost had to do something = all else failed so let's take a final shot at them via the Board.

I wonder how the P is feeling about her decision.

 

[Salah11]

I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding rude. I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone who has followed this crime closely thinks this was a lone wolf situation. Is it just that they only read MSM articles (which often take great liberty with "sources say" and don't quote LE directly/verbatim)? Do they watch the videos of interviews with LE (before a gag order) and really listen to what they're saying? Are they not reading the court documents and/or listening to experts reviewing them/explaining them? Maybe I'm just too obsessed with the case and its details, but I really just don't see how to make a lone wolf scenario work in my head.

They've said things like "complicated" "tentacles" "hope I can tell the story someday"..... Richard Allen has two arms and two legs....not tentacles.

IMO MOO

I have been here since the beginning and I believe it’s a lone wolf.

The recording also points to one man. LE changed their theory as time moved on and they have so far not found any suggestions of other perpetrators or there would have been other arrests.

My only question about RA that remains about what he did that day Is ……. Did he know they was gonna be there and unfortunately due to the time that has passed and the fact he would have deleted anything incriminating and he will never admit the truth I doubt I will ever fully know that answer.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

It’s long gone off msm but a LOT of people were searching well into the night. Even the news was out interviewing searcher well into the night. JMO

Someone that was searching had their pickup truck blocked in during the night of the 13th at the cemetery by LE and other searchers. I seriously doubt RA would bring the girls back with the area crawling with people and LE. JMO

I agree---I don't think that anyone could have left the area with the 2 missing girls and then returned to the crime scene without being noticed. There were MANY local first responders , family friends, reporters and locals searching the area, all through the night. There would be people with walkie-talkies and flashlights walking all around.

Once you had the kidnapped girls out of the area, why would you risk returning to the same area where everyone was already looking?

 

[katydid23]

They weren’t necessarily trapped at the end of that bridge, there was a small gate that if they opened or hopped over and turned right would bring them directly to Abby’s home 1/4-1/2 mile away

The 'trapped' part was that a grown man had a gun to their heads. If someone had a gun at the back of your best friend's head would you hop the fence and run?

 

[katydid23]

But her written decision made her bias even more apparent. Scathing disdain for them. lol.

Rightly so---a young father and Air Force officer killed himself over the mess resulting from the total lack of accountability the defense took in protecting those documents.

They were responsible for the sensitive death photos of two young girls, which should have been kept locked up when not in use. InsteAd they were left out on a table in an unlocked, unsupervised conference room.

I totally understand the judge's disdain in this situation.

 

[katydid23]

I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding rude. I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone who has followed this crime closely thinks this was a lone wolf situation.

OK, that's fair. And I have a hard time understanding how one could believe that a group of Odinists were out there at the bottom of the hill, carrying out a human sacrifice ritual, of 2 white girls, without being seen or heard, coming or going, without leaving footprints and DNA, and without any of the other large network of odinist clan members screwing it up.

Is it just that they only read MSM articles (which often take great liberty with "sources say" and don't quote LE directly/verbatim)? Do they watch the videos of interviews with LE (before a gag order) and really listen to what they're saying? Are they not reading the court documents and/or listening to experts reviewing them/explaining them? Maybe I'm just too obsessed with the case and its details, but I really just don't see how to make a lone wolf scenario work in my head.

Many people believe RA did this murder on his own, but there were tentacles, as they say, in terms of CSAM connections with other local characters perhaps.

They've said things like "complicated" "tentacles" "hope I can tell the story someday"..... Richard Allen has two arms and two legs....not tentacles.

IMO MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

They weren’t necessarily trapped at the end of that bridge, there was a small gate that if they opened or hopped over and turned right would bring them directly to Abby’s home 1/4-1/2 mile away

They were trapped by BG=RA holding them at gunpoint. It's even sadder to think freedom if they had been able to achieve it, was close but so very far away.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That was a good catch.

Good catch and true IMO.