Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[layer]

Irrelevant. He’s scaring two teenage girls who he presumes not to know how his Sig works.

If RA had any idea how his own gun works why was he acting like Alec Baldwin? None of that would have been needed to scare those girls. No gun, no theatrics, no silly movie moves. Just his freaky face would have scared me, and obviously he had something sharp.

 

[justtrish]

There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.

If you don't intend to use the gun to shoot the victims, but you do intend to use it to scare them, then I think absolutely you would racked the slide. Those girls do not likely understand how his gun worked so just showing it to them and ordering them down the hill and then maybe they paused at some point and he racked it and said keep moving. He used that gun to get them to comply with what he was saying. The only way this works for him is if both girls fear for their lives so much that neither tries to run. If even one of them took off running the other could go in the opposite direction and at least one of them would like get away. He HAD to keep control of them both while he was getting them to where he wanted them. Then it's easier to tie one up or have one tie the other up and now he may not need the gun to keep them there. He had to get them quickly away from the trail and any other possible witnesses that might come along.

I know a little about guns and I think seeing one is scary.. but having a man rack the slide suggests to me he's serious and is about to shoot me if I don't move like he ordered me to. It's fear and intimidation.

 

[WildHuncher]

If RA had any idea how his own gun works why was he acting like Alec Baldwin? None of that would have been needed to scare those girls. No gun, no theatrics, no silly movie moves. Just his freaky face would have scared me, and obviously he had something sharp.

Running works against a knife, especially if you can run in two directions at once.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.

Brought for intimidation tactic, he couldn't afford to shoot it because of the noise. I see the outline of one in his jacket pocket clearly IMO. It was said in the PCA that one of girls said words to the effect of "he's got a gun, or is that a gun".

The State will play the audio and that will be obvious. I think there may be some additional audio other than just "Guys, Down the Hill", but I don't think it's a lot more.

RA = BG came upon them soon after Libby took the photo of Abby that was shared on Snapchat. I have the feeling Libby knew there was serious trouble coming. In my scenario RA doubled back on them, which is what caused Libby to alert so quickly.

JMO

 

[layer]

Running works against a knife, especially if you can run in two directions at once.

Fear is crippling (deer in the headlights). Like I said, there was a window in which I believe the girls could have escaped. Maybe it's because I've seen a million slasher movies, maybe it's because I was in Hollywood the day the Sharon Tate killings happened, heck - maybe it's because I'm from Texas. Guns don't scare me at all. Knives terrify me. A gun would most likely just kill me, and in short order. But a knife...

 

[girlhasnoname]

Running works against a knife, especially if you can run in two directions at once.

True, it's been said many times in those first crucial moments, the most common reactions are Fight, Flight or Freeze.

An older man with a gun in his hand aimed at 2 young girls on a rickety old bridge would definitely intimidated them enough to comply immediately.

I started to type the knife may have not be shown until the very end and while that could be true, it makes my heart hurt to even think of such a scenario or of Abby and Libby's pure fear and terror.

Justice and Truth for Abby & Libby first and always. I want the Murderer to pay every day for the rest of his sick life. He gets no pass from me on anything, ever.


JMO

 

[layer]

What's fascinating is to see how all our life experiences and points of view color the way we all view the evidence. I think this must be like a microcosm of the larger jury pool in a case. The only part of a trial I ever really, really wanted to watch is the only part for sure they will never show - the deliberations.

 

[TL4S]

Fear is crippling (deer in the headlights). Like I said, there was a window in which I believe the girls could have escaped. Maybe it's because I've seen a million slasher movies, maybe it's because I was in Hollywood the day the Sharon Tate killings happened, heck - maybe it's because I'm from Texas. Guns don't scare me at all. Knives terrify me. A gun would most likely just kill me, and in short order. But a knife...

I agree. It's always made me uncomfortable to speculate that the girls could have escaped, run, split up, stayed loyally together, screamed, etc. We really don't know what they could or couldn't do, but it seems an undue burden to put on them as two young girls under that kind of duress.

IMO, by knife or gunpoint, the killer likely walked them out of view "DTH," then made them undress. That would have given him even more control, IMO. No clothing, no shoes, 40 degrees, in the woods, alone with an adult man? Freaking terrifying.

He could have made them carry their clothes across the creek, made A redress herself, all while standing back not having to do a damn thing other than intimidate them.

I hope RA is the guy. I respect that folks are sold on that. But what if he isn't? Or he wasn't alone? Just think about someone who did that to those girls still out there, remembering, looking at other girls. That's freaking terrifying, too.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

IF L’s phone was in fact just missed by the killer(s), the only 2 explanations IMO would be that either…L was carrying 2 phones that day, as speculated by some other sleuthers, and the perp(s) took what they believed was the only phone, not realizing a second existed… or that the physical murderer(s) were different than the perp escorting A & L down the hill who saw them using a phone to take pics, and the CS murderers believed that BG had already collected phones or that possibly the girls didn’t have phones since one wasn’t found on A.

Otherwise we’re left with either a really stupid blunder by the perp(s) or the idea that the perp(s) wanted the phone found.

possibility is he knew she had the phone but didn’t realize she had taken video of him.

IF L’s phone was in fact just missed by the killer(s), the only 2 explanations IMO would be that either…L was carrying 2 phones that day, as speculated by some other sleuthers, and the perp(s) took what they believed was the only phone, not realizing a second existed… or that the physical murderer(s) were different than the perp escorting A & L down the hill who saw them using a phone to take pics, and the CS murderers believed that BG had already collected phones or that possibly the girls didn’t have phones since one wasn’t found on A.

Otherwise we’re left with either a really stupid blunder by the perp(s) or the idea that the perp(s) wanted the phone found.

There are so many other possibilities. None which will exonerate RA.
IMO RA most likely knew she had a phone. But didn’t realize there was incriminating evidence on it.
Simple as that.
Or he thought there could be incriminating evidence on it but the girls hid it and he was unable to find it before he left the crime scene.
Or he thought there could be incriminating evidence and did get the phone but was unable to gain access to remove the images or physically destroy the phone.
Or he thought their could be incriminating evidence and thought he did destroy the phone and its contents.
Or he didn’t realize there was a phone at all because the Snapchat picture was taken while he was we unaware or not close enough to see and he didn’t see he was recorded.
Or yes even your idea that he is knew he was recorded and simply didn’t care.

I could go on. It’s limitless really and somewhere in there is the truth that will come out at trial.

All moo

 

[Jade]

Fear is crippling (deer in the headlights). Like I said, there was a window in which I believe the girls could have escaped. Maybe it's because I've seen a million slasher movies, maybe it's because I was in Hollywood the day the Sharon Tate killings happened, heck - maybe it's because I'm from Texas. Guns don't scare me at all. Knives terrify me. A gun would most likely just kill me, and in short order. But a knife...

Doesn’t sound like you are a young girl from Delphi living a sheltered life so…

Maybe he did take a little swipe with a knife at one of them to get the other to comply.


all imo

 

[layer]

Or he didn’t realize there was a phone at all because the Snapchat picture was taken while he was we unaware or not close enough to see and he didn’t see he was recorded.

I can't remember the name of the app but a friend of mine used to send me links to videos they made and uploaded and the videos were not stored locally. There was a time limit, like 40 seconds or something. I always wondered if the BG video was never on Libby's phone at all, but something like that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Fear is crippling (deer in the headlights). Like I said, there was a window in which I believe the girls could have escaped. Maybe it's because I've seen a million slasher movies, maybe it's because I was in Hollywood the day the Sharon Tate killings happened, heck - maybe it's because I'm from Texas. Guns don't scare me at all. Knives terrify me. A gun would most likely just kill me, and in short order. But a knife...

What window was there that you think the girls could have escaped? Curious.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.

Replace “cocked” with inserting magazine and pulling slide.
Obviously when the audio came out I had zero knowledge of the type of gun but could pick up on what sounded like a sound of a gun being loaded and readied for use.
Other sleuthers had identified the gun by imprint early on.
Also. I hate to muddy the already unclear waters but it has never been ruled out that the gun was never fired.
Just that it was not the cause of death.
I could be absolutely wrong but a shot near water in a bowl like atmosphere could be hard to identify the source and locate.
Alll my opinion.

 

[layer]

What window was there that you think the girls could have escaped? Curious.

I think the window was slammed by the time they crossed the creek.
JMHO, pure speculation and in no way saying they should or shouldn't have. What they should have done is come home safe and happy.

 

[layer]

Replace “cocked” with inserting magazine and pulling slide.

Why in the world would the magazine have ever been removed from the gun? Again, RA would know how to operate his own gun.
1. Insert mag
2. Rack slide
3. Engage safety
4. Decock if you're sketchy (generally frowned upon by military/LE/operator types)
5. Holster it
This is done before you go out on patrol or on duty. Once you run into trouble, you draw, disengage safety, pull trigger.
All this cocking and racking and fiddling and loading and unloading magazines and dropping rounds makes no sense at all
unless...
All of a sudden I'm wondering if the gun itself was the ruse. "Hey girls, want to check this out?"

 

[nadia90]

You are probably thinking about a single action like a 1911.
An uncocked Sig P226 can still be fired. Pull trigger, gun go bang.

I'm aware, own a 1911 myself, but cooking the sig wouldn't be all that unusual

 

[nadia90]

Why in the world would the magazine have ever been removed from the gun? Again, RA would know how to operate his own gun.
1. Insert mag
2. Rack slide
3. Engage safety
4. Decock if you're sketchy (generally frowned upon by military/LE/operator types)
5. Holster it
This is done before you go out on patrol or on duty. Once you run into trouble, you draw, disengage safety, pull trigger.
All this cocking and racking and fiddling and loading and unloading magazines and dropping rounds makes no sense at all
unless...
All of a sudden I'm wondering if the gun itself was the ruse. "Hey girls, want to check this out?"

Insert mag stop. If he wants to get serious he can rack the slide later.

 

[layer]

Insert mag stop. If he wants to get serious he can rack the slide later.

I think the killer was serious before he set foot on the trails that day.

 

[nadia90]

I think the killer was serious before he set foot on the trails that day.

It doesn't have to match only your theory regarding the sig. It could have happened differently

 

[nadia90]

I think the killer was serious before he set foot on the trails that day.

More serious.....