Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[twall]

I was watching the most recent episode of ID channel's Murder in the Heartland featuring the murder of 8 months pregnant Tiffanie Adams from Sullivan, IN. Kevin Horan comes on the screen and I'm thinking that name sounds familiar. So i do some digging. He is retired FBI CAST certified whose testimony NM wants suppressed.
Point #9 @ link.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[sunshineray]

I was watching the most recent episode of ID channel's Murder in the Heartland featuring the murder of 8 months pregnant Tiffanie Adams from Sullivan, IN. Kevin Horan comes on the screen and I'm thinking that name sounds familiar. So i do some digging. He is retired FBI CAST certified whose testimony NM wants suppressed.
Point #9 @ link.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

He testified in Mollie Tibbetts case. He extracted the data from her FitBit

 

[Boxer]

According to the Defense and their SM supporters it was one of the most well written documents in legal history. LOL

I can't wait to see the State dismantle this garbage document, page by page, footnotes included during trial.

JMO

Agree. The "one man with his dexterity" arguing it was just too strenuous for one man to manage two terrorized teen girls, or move wood around.

Written apparently by someone who never worked physically in their life.

 

[Willow Knight]

Think I saw some mention of how an interracial relationship may have been involved somehow. Looking for it. I just found it, but so far, only on Reddit. Okay, @steeltowngirl noted a while back it was in the Franks Memo. And just confirmed, it's in there on p17.

I would think even without that factor, though (which may not be true since it's in the Franks Memo), they still might have been targeted for a sacrifice. For some of these cults, it's like an honor to be sacrificed. From what's known of the Vinlanders, though, I wouldn't picture them taking that approach.

Naw, a sacrificial ritual that involves redressing? In the middle of the day. Also add in the speculation it was due to an interracial relationship that would still mean one would have had to know the victims were going to be on the bridge that day. I would think if this was racial the murder would not have taken place in such a public place. And Richard Allen IMO would have seen someone.

All my opinion.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

According to the Defense and their SM supporters it was one of the most well written documents in legal history. LOL

I can't wait to see the State dismantle this garbage document, page by page, footnotes included during trial.

JMO

I’m not so sure we will get to delight in its dismantling at trial because it’s very possible it won’t pass legal muster to make it to trial.
Literary accolades notwithstanding…insert eye roll…the Franks Motion, all of them, are a fantasy tale, and not a particularly good one. Written solely to deny and/or delay justice for Abby and Libby.
My opinion.

Edit: adding the opinion thing

 

[nadia90]

Think I saw some mention of how an interracial relationship may have been involved somehow. Looking for it. I just found it, but so far, only on Reddit. Okay, @steeltowngirl noted a while back it was in the Franks Memo. And just confirmed, it's in there on p17.

I would think even without that factor, though (which may not be true since it's in the Franks Memo), they still might have been targeted for a sacrifice. For some of these cults, it's like an honor to be sacrificed. From what's known of the Vinlanders, though, I wouldn't picture them taking that approach.

Poppycock

 

[somequestions]

I don't want to assume how that witnesses will go at trial, but it does seem like the 'juvenile girls' will identify the man they saw just after 1.26pm as Bridge Guy.

One reason this is significant is we can the pretty much infer that the man BB saw must also be Bridge Guy - even if she differs on some details. Otherwise there must have been a second Bridge Guy around which is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Alan saying he saw the 3 girls might be his most critical mistake.

IMO

I agree with your last statement.

However, the main question in the case is whether or not you can say beyond a reasonable doubt that there was not another bridge guy? I think this is where the state has proven the case only 99%. Maybe the confessions contain information only the killer would know and that gets them to 100%? We will have to wait and see at trial.

But sometimes a small detail can matter. In the PCA, it states that the woman who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge said he was wearing a "blue jean jacket". I think this is correct as I would agree that a Carhartt jacket could be described as a blue jean jacket.

In the phone video though taken by Liberty German, it looks like the person in the video is wearing a blue windbreaker. It is a small detail and maybe it does not matter, but what if it does?

 

[WildHuncher]

However, the main question in the case is whether or not you can say beyond a reasonable doubt that there was not another bridge guy? I think this is where the state has proven the case only 99%.

This kind of thing kills me. If one bit of evidence gets you to 99 percent, and there are several other lines of evidence pointing the same way, how can “beyond a reasonable doubt” not be satisfied? Do all the others vanish as you look at each one?

If each line of evidence has a 1 percent chance of him being innocent, then the overall chance of innocence is one percent OF one percent OF one percent for three different lines of evidence. That’s one in a million.

 

[Boxer]

I agree with your last statement.

However, the main question in the case is whether or not you can say beyond a reasonable doubt that there was not another bridge guy? I think this is where the state has proven the case only 99%. Maybe the confessions contain information only the killer would know and that gets them to 100%? We will have to wait and see at trial.

But sometimes a small detail can matter. In the PCA, it states that the woman who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge said he was wearing a "blue jean jacket". I think this is correct as I would agree that a Carhartt jacket could be described as a blue jean jacket.

In the phone video though taken by Liberty German, it looks like the person in the video is wearing a blue windbreaker. It is a small detail and maybe it does not matter, but what if it does?

He said he was on platform 1 at the time she saw him.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I was watching the most recent episode of ID channel's Murder in the Heartland featuring the murder of 8 months pregnant Tiffanie Adams from Sullivan, IN. Kevin Horan comes on the screen and I'm thinking that name sounds familiar. So i do some digging. He is retired FBI CAST certified whose testimony NM wants suppressed.
Point #9 @ link.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

BBM
If you are referring to Section 9 of the Motion in Limine, then I believe it’s important that to look at the phrases “relevant” and “not relevant” in regards to what NM wants suppressed. IMO
In my opinion there is a big difference between asking for only relevant geofencing data be presented and not allowing any at all.
I think NM is just wanting to make sure the defense doesn’t take the jury on the crazy train to cuckoo town when it comes to the technical information.
AMO


Adobe Acrobat

 

[justtrish]

I agree with your last statement.

However, the main question in the case is whether or not you can say beyond a reasonable doubt that there was not another bridge guy? I think this is where the state has proven the case only 99%. Maybe the confessions contain information only the killer would know and that gets them to 100%? We will have to wait and see at trial.

But sometimes a small detail can matter. In the PCA, it states that the woman who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge said he was wearing a "blue jean jacket". I think this is correct as I would agree that a Carhartt jacket could be described as a blue jean jacket.

In the phone video though taken by Liberty German, it looks like the person in the video is wearing a blue windbreaker. It is a small detail and maybe it does not matter, but what if it does?

I think blue jean jacket or blue jacket is still very similar. It isn't like she said he was wearing orange and yellow and it turned out to be blue. She was a little distance away, he was out on a bridge likely in the sunglight and maybe it did appear to be denim to her and the angle she saw him at. I can't speak for others, but for me on a jury if she saw him and her time is proven (which we know it is with video of her car arriving and leaving) and RA put himself there also doing exactly what he said he was doing out on the platform and then she describes the clothing as a blue jean jacket and only a few minutes later Libby records a man on the bridge in a blue jacket and jeans.. I would assume this is the same man, especially since no other witnesses have seen another man in a blue jacker or a blue jean jacket at that same time.. so some things can reasonably be accepted, especially when other evidence points to him also.

 

[steeltowngirl]

This kind of thing kills me. If one bit of evidence gets you to 99 percent, and there are several other lines of evidence pointing the same way, how can “beyond a reasonable doubt” not be satisfied? Do all the others vanish as you look at each one?

If each line of evidence has a 1 percent chance of him being innocent, then the overall chance of innocence is one percent OF one percent OF one percent for three different lines of evidence. That’s one in a million.

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt​

This standard of proof is used exclusively in criminal cases, and a person cannot be convicted of a crime unless a judge or jury is convinced of the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Precisely, if there is any reasonable uncertainty of guilt, based on the evidence presented, a defendant cannot be convicted.
Ostensibly, this burden requires that a trier of fact (judge, jury, arbiter) is fully satisfied and entirely convinced to a moral certainty that the evidence presented proves the guilt of the defendant. There is essentially no room for wavering or uncertainty; the trier of fact believes the evidence to be precise, indubitable, and leaves one with an inescapable conclusion of certainty. Whereas, in a civil trial, a party may prevail with as little as 51 percent probability (a preponderance), those legal authorities who venture to assign a numerical value to “beyond a reasonable doubt” place it in the certainty range of 98 or 99 percent.

Beyond a Reasonable Doubt – Courts

courts.uslegal.com

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'm confused though, why would a racist (white supremists) Odinist group of men be killing two young white girls in a sacrificial rite?

IF I knew the answer to that, I'd be on a witness list... UMM, no thanks. JMO, but I really don't think it was a sacrificial rite.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

IF I knew the answer to that, I'd be on a witness list... UMM, no thanks. JMO, but I really don't think it was a sacrificial rite.

Thank goodness you aren’t on a witness list!

Everyone associated with this case and many who are not are getting dragged through the muck. MOO.

 

[snooptroop88]

The D shouldn't have pursued the Odinist angle if they couldn't prove it because essentially, the D is constructing its own makeshift trial of uncharged defendants and local LE, which has already moved on from those individuals. It's not enough for D to bring up this fantastic tale and just end it with a question mark. And doing so makes it appear they themselves in fact know it didn't happen that way, and are just throwing poop in the game, so to speak, to try to get Ricky off. Nobody is denying there is some ritualistic element to this crime, but SKs are known for ritualistic elements. The better case would be the SK. And even if some unfortunate buys into this "Odin ritual" tale they've spun, so why couldn't Ricky be an Odinite? Like he'd be telling everyone at the CVS? And on top of it all, the Odinite angle could have been pursued by D in a more quiet, subtle and more dignified manner, but D didn't want that, either. It just looks like a grandiose, exalted Nothingburger.

Listened to the Lebrato interview yesterday, and Lebrato's answer when they asked him why he thinks RA is innocent. "I don't think Mr. Allen had anything to do with this....Conversations with him, the fact that he lived in this very small community, that's not much bigger than a high school. He worked at the CVS in Delphi. The police sketches are hung up in the CVS, the Bridge Guy picture is in the CVS, and in five and a half years, nobody comes into that store and says that kinda looks like you." And he noted the election and the lack of criminal record. Agreed on the criminal record and the election, but those are universal to a lot of people, why not one of them instead of a pharmacy tech to hang the crime on? And what Lebrato describes with conversations and such, I mean RA's not going to be taking the stand, and I don't give a hoot about how powerfully he looked into your eyes. Based on Lebrato's answer, nobody living in Delphi proper with a normal job that had sketches displayed nearby could be guilty. But tell you what, I'd take Lebrato a thousand times over the authors of the Franks. All it's missing to qualify as fantasy fiction is a reference to Middle Earth. I got the feeling that at least a trial with Lebrato would have taken place on Planet Earth. I do think RA did this and if he's guilty, he's compounding the tragedy by the day.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

So heartbreaking just looking at these precious girls memorial pages again. I love their ornery smiles in their pics. Damn, I hate whoever robbed Abby and Libby of their lives.Cowards!!!


RIP Abby & Libby.

Liberty Rose Lynn “Libby” German (2002-2017) -...

Liberty Libby German, 14 and Abigail Abby Williams, 13 were the victims of a predator, while hiking. Libby's obituary painted the image of an active, fun-loving sports star who played volleyball, soccer and loved swimming, but also showed her creative side with painting and crafts. Hundreds...

www.findagrave.com

Abigail Joyce “Abby” Williams (2003-2017) - Find...

 

[Willow Knight]

So heartbreaking just looking at these precious girls memorial pages again. I love their ornery smiles in their pics. Damn, I hate whoever robbed Abby and Libby of their lives.Cowards!!!


RIP Abby & Libby.

Liberty Rose Lynn “Libby” German (2002-2017) -...

Liberty Libby German, 14 and Abigail Abby Williams, 13 were the victims of a predator, while hiking. Libby's obituary painted the image of an active, fun-loving sports star who played volleyball, soccer and loved swimming, but also showed her creative side with painting and crafts. Hundreds...

www.findagrave.com

Abigail Joyce “Abby” Williams (2003-2017) - Find...

I couldn't decide to use the sad or anger face. Thank you for bringing the focus back to Abby and Libby. This is just so very sad.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO seems not much point commenting on the recusal motion unless it actually gets taken up by SCOIN.

Only thing i wanted to note, is I don't see that the Judge's finding of negligence was some kind of low blow. She was required to determine if the disclosure of the crime scene photos was intentional / wilful, but instead she found the disclosure was merely negligent which is insufficient for contempt. So it was a factual finding that she was called upon to make.

IMO yet another example of how she is her own worst enemy by not authoring proper decisions, e.g setting out all the relevant facts, her factual findings, and then applying the law.

Personally I don't believe a new judge will change things much, but at least we might get authored rulings!

MOO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO yet another example of how she is her own worst enemy by not authoring proper decisions, e.g setting out all the relevant facts, her factual findings, and then applying the law.

RSBM for focus.

The sad fact is she could have settled the whole Franks issue the first time. She could have and should have done exactly what you said.

Instead, she continues to refuse to do that. OTOH, wasn't she going to allow the second attys to have a hearing on theirs? Apparently she read it; what was in theirs that made it OK to have a hearing on it?
That whole issue just makes me suspicious.

 

[joe jones]

Are journalists allowed to blog from court (as there are no cameras) or do they have to take notes to write articles after court day is over, and will court release transcripts as trial goes along (if anybody knows) or does the whole trial transcript get released after the trial and it cost thousands of dollars