All About Chloroform #3

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

no... i said nothing about WS either.
i wrote them as a concerned febreze user.. and made it a point to let them know that JB is on national TV, trying to make it look like the chloroform levels were a result of the febreze and/or dryer sheets being sprayed in the car/trunk.

 

[sleutherontheside]

On an effin whim I googled "secret science".... my results page yielded this link A snip because it just made me laugh so hard....

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AKTFGt7OsOoJ:www.amazon.com/Secret-Science-Alliance-Copycat-Crook/dp/1599903962+secret+science&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

The Secret Science Alliance and the Copycat Crook
Grade 3-7–Julian Calendar, 11, is a supersmart transfer student trying desperately to fit in at his new middle school. Just when he starts to believe that he'll never find his place, he discovers two other brilliant minds and together they form the Secret Science Alliance.

These three braniacs create their own book of blueprints for such cunning creations as the stinkometer, sticky and dangerous gluebombs, and the flying Kablovsky Copter. However, their blueprints are stolen by evil Dr. Stringer, who has plans for them.

Davis's first long-form comic is packed full of detail down to every minute tool in the Alliance's workshop, and the flying words and panels move the story at a quick pace. Davis's creativity is evident from the myriad gadgets and schemes of the story. Children will see, through these inventions and the triumph of the protagonists, that science can be cool.–Carrie Rogers-Whitehead, Kearns Library, UT END --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

 

[Intermezzo]

I thought JB was changing it to a tiny wet bathing suit of Caylee's left in the trunk after swimming at TL's.

Baez now claims that after Caylee went swimming in TL's apartment pool (june 2?) Casey left the swimsuit in the car and that produced the high levels of chloroform...

dryer sheets
febreeze
swim suit left in car after swimming in a chlorinated pool...

 

[LunaticFringe]

I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the strand so cut me some slack please.

Why use chloroform when duct tape had concealed all air way passages?
Is there any chance that the chloroform readings have come from pesticide or cleaning products combined when the Sunfire was in the Anthony Garage?

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

having 4 kids, there has been MANY times where i've left wet bathing suits and towels in the trunk of my car because i either forgot to grab them or i didn't feel like running backout to grab them after carrying the 2 little ones in the house.

i can tell you that they dry completely overnight... even if the towel is bunched up, it'll still dry - they'll be stiff, but they DO dry! also, there is no chlorine smell like there is when you open up a trunk that has wet bathing suits in them... and i have 4 bathing suits + 4 towels. and of course.. chlorine doesn't= chloroform.

imo, the jury isn't gonna buy the bathing suit excuse either.. who hasn't left a wet bathing suit lying around somewhere?

 

[Solace]

I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the strand so cut me some slack please.

Why use chloroform when duct tape had concealed all air way passages?
Is there any chance that the chloroform readings have come from pesticide or cleaning products combined when the Sunfire was in the Anthony Garage?

It is easier to to tape up a sleeping baby than a squirming one. As horrible as that was to right. I'm sorry.

 

[LinasK]

I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the strand so cut me some slack please.

Why use chloroform when duct tape had concealed all air way passages?
Is there any chance that the chloroform readings have come from pesticide or cleaning products combined when the Sunfire was in the Anthony Garage?

Casey would've Chloroformed her first with a rag to knock her out, then duct taped her...

 

[strach304]

I remember reading that there were traces of chloroform in the syringe found in the gatorade bottle....I wonder if Caylee was injected with chloroform, would that cause 10,000 more times the chloroform found in decomposition? :waitasec:

Dr. Vass had stated there was 10,000 more times the amount than normal....

This is where I see problems for the defense. Not that there was chloroform found but the mass levels that were found. Fabric softener sheets, fabreeze, chlorine, urine, pesticides and freon just to name a few may contain chloroform and certain chemicals together can create it. I've seen no evidence of the vehicles inspection for a freon leak or the gas can fumes that could account for the massive levels Dr. Vass discovered. Tie that in with the internet searches of how to make the stuff I'm not likely to believe in innocent reasons for how that much came to be there.

 

[Intermezzo]

having 4 kids, there has been MANY times where i've left wet bathing suits and towels in the trunk of my car because i either forgot to grab them or i didn't feel like running backout to grab them after carrying the 2 little ones in the house.

i can tell you that they dry completely overnight... even if the towel is bunched up, it'll still dry - they'll be stiff, but they DO dry! also, there is no chlorine smell like there is when you open up a trunk that has wet bathing suits in them... and i have 4 bathing suits + 4 towels. and of course.. chlorine doesn't= chloroform.

imo, the jury isn't gonna buy the bathing suit excuse either.. who hasn't left a wet bathing suit lying around somewhere?

bbm
Exactly...
i wonder how judge perry kept a straight face.

 

[strach304]

I definately want to dig further into the ingrediants. The words of concern for me are "when used as directed". Perhaps I am jaded because I work in the pharmaceutical industry. Several of the drugs I have sold have some very severe side effect when taken at high does. So I often find myself reminding physicans that when "taken as directed" these risk don't apply. I am sure if CA sprayed an entire bottle of Fabreeze (as she lied to in court) that would not be considered to be "as directed"

Great work,though. I am sure the SA will also be doing this research and be prepared to debunk this theory. Heck, perhaps P&G will submit a formal letter to the court.

IMO they have consulted with experts to try and explain the massive levels and it can't be done. The idea first was to get this evidence thrown out so jurors would not know about the chloroform levels at all. They have come up with a combo that do contain chloroform trying to create the illusion that it wasn't any one thing but several when put together in a somewhat sealed unventilated area caused the results. Good idea imo but that should make the internet searches for how to make chloroform all the more compelling. In the past we have heard RM's pic on myspace about chloroform piqued Casey's curiosity and Cindy's excuse of searching for chlorophyll misspelling as possibilities.

 

[strach304]

If casey was the one that cleaned the car. Lets say she took it back to the house. sprayed the entire interior of the trunk with commercial strength pesticide to kill bugs and maggots. Then used a separate cleaner to steam clean the rest out. Then closed up the trunk, still soaking wet, and went on her way. Thinking that that would be enough to get it clean. But it being florida sun, moist hot humid environment. Could that have caused the high concentration of chloroform?? I just dont know where this girl wouldve found chloroform

This is the most likely scenario that I've seen that fits. LE did remove pesticide sprayers from the A's shed. Of course Casey and the DT cannot say that is what caused the high levels of chloroform. Why would she need to exterminate her car trunk? Even the DT expert said there should have been many more bugs.

 

[strach304]

I filled out an online form.. so, I have nothing to copy and paste
It went a little something like this:

I'm very concerned about the ingredients in your Febreze products and what chemicals they may produce after being sprayed.
I'm a daily user of this product, both can, bottle & "noticeables" plug ins, I douse my entire home, car... and even my kids sometimes... have accidentally even sprayed it in eyes a few times and never had any bad reactions.. But now we have a defense attorney in FL (Jose Baez) going on national TV and in open court (1st degree murder trial) trying to say that the reason the air in his client's trunk tested that Chloroform was present (air samples from an "off gassing" carpet sample) ran thru a gas chromatography mass spectrometer machine) was because her mother sprayed an entire can off Febreze in the trunk and thru-out the car.
I understand that this is probably just a shady lawyer making excuses for a woman who Chloroformed her baby to death... But for the sake of my family's safety, I need to ask anyway. Can you assure me that when I am spraying Febreze on my sofa, carpet, car seats, shoes and even the baby when she stinks, that there will be no Chloroform present, either as an ingredient or as a result of it "off gassing" from the surfaces I sprayed it on?



and yes... I DO febreze my baby... (22 mos) when she poops, the smell lingers like you wouldn't believe.. she's a stinky little one.

When I was doing a search for the ingredients in Fabreze there were links from google to snopes about it being dangerous to pets. That is something they have dealt with in the past. They do not publicly list the ingredients just the one main active ingredient.

 

[strach304]

I just sent an email inquiry to P&G myself asking them to confirm to me and the other people who are watching the hearing and trial that their product (febreeze) will not produce 10,000 times the amount of chloroform even when exposed to velveeta, processed meat packages, soda, and dryer sheets. I will post their reply when I receive it.

It would be nice if the prosecutors could have a rep testify. They have someone from Henkel tape as a witness.

 

[gngr~snap]

Even with the chemicals in Bounce that contain Cl, is there enough energy (very high heat) in the trunk to break down the stable chemicals in Bounce so that there is enough free Cl to combine with enough free C and free H to make chloroform? The answer is, probably not enough to make even trace amounts.

The problem with a lot of the alarmist websites that warn you of the dangerous chemicals swarming around you in daily life is that almost all of the dangers assume the absolute worst-case (and more often than not - unrealistic) scenarios possible. If they were anything less than unrealistic, we'd all be dead now.

I am not a very bright bulb. I learn something from posts! your knowledge is. impressive! I have a question. Do dryer sheets contain Surfactants? Could that have affected fats in adipocre, and somehow interacted to wicked levels of chloroform?
I just can't accept ICA could make it on her own. she was no lab rat! Lee I might could see trying a lil kitchen mixology experiments
just wanted your thought on surfactants
Maybe they are only in laundry detergent. :waitasec:

 

[txsvicki]

Hope I'm on the right thread, but I got worried watching in session this morning. Baez was going on about how Vaas isn't a chemist, has to hire a chemist assistant, and the judge seemed to get interested and wrote some things down. I hope the judge doesn't decide to disallow the air samples showing chloroform or decomp. I still think Casey had quite a bit of chloroform in the trunk on a rag due to trying to set up a fake car jacking abduction even if she did use it on Caylee before ever putting her into the trunk or taping the mouth and nose.

 

[wenwe4]

Thanks
So someone at the company had to go look up what was said...by expert witnesses...

Yup! I would assume that they have an "inter-office memo" circulating about this very thing. I would further assume they have consulted with their chemists and Atty's prior to responding to consumers. They surely have a media release dept. and I would assume that something will be coming out soon (if they truly feel this needs to be addressed to ease consumer concerns). If they feel it is not a "trend" and only a few isolated inquiries are made - they may not feel it necessary to make a public statement. Interesting that they have reviewed what the expert witnesses have state about this very issue - since chloroform is a known carcinagen (which expert witnesses have testified to).

 

[Caligram]

I wonder if the DT might hire a chemist to hypothetically make up a batch of chloroform from whatever, and claim that it was used by GA to disinfect the car because of all that odiferous garbage KC left in the trunk. GA was a bit mixed up (overeager) and erred in the amounts he mixed up. JB might be totally impressed with his experiment, thinking such a simple explanation should satisfy simple folks.
IMO

 

[gamom]

I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the strand so cut me some slack please.

Why use chloroform when duct tape had concealed all air way passages?
Is there any chance that the chloroform readings have come from pesticide or cleaning products combined when the Sunfire was in the Anthony Garage?

I actually agree with you. I think this is something the state is going to need to address or the jury will have the same question. I think the state's claim is wanted to put Caylee asleep and the tape was there just in case Caylee woke up to keep her cries muffled. However, Chloroform is not a easy product to get or make for that matter. Plus the effects wear off quickly, so she would have to use a good strength of it.

In my opinon, it is MUCH easier for KC to get benadryl over the counter. They even come in fruity grape chewable flavor. Anyone who has taken it knows that it will knock you out for a while. So why reach for cholorform? The thing that helps the state is the google searches.

I don't think it is a coinicidence that there is cholorform in the trunk AND google searches on it. It is not something people talk about daily.

 

[gamom]

I wonder if the DT might hire a chemist to hypothetically make up a batch of chloroform from whatever, and claim that it was used by GA to disinfect the car because of all that odiferous garbage KC left in the trunk. GA was a bit mixed up (overeager) and erred in the amounts he mixed up. JB might be totally impressed with his experiment, thinking such a simple explanation should satisfy simple folks.
IMO

Not to help the defense, but that WOULD satisfy alot of people. First.. it explains the google searches on the family computer. (If GA has used this as cleaning products for other things or even KC for that matter) Plus, I think I read some where that Cholorform (or a form of it in certain cleaning products) is what gives a new car that "new car" smell. Surely GA who once sold used cars, would know this.

It could explain away the cholorform in the trunk. It won't explain away the dead body that was in it. Since we don't know HOW Caylee died and there was no choloroform found on the remains, it's kind of pointless going back and forth about the cholorform in my opinion. The state has a good enough case with the smell of the car, possible air samples and root banding (if they come in), duck tape, missing for 31 days, Caylee found behind the house and last person to see her alive was her mother who was out partying instead of looking for her missing child.

Did I say 31 days already?

 

[jharres]

I don't think it is a coinicidence that there is cholorform in the trunk AND google searches on it. It is not something people talk about daily.

Snipped and BBM - Except here on WS.