Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[Ippygal]

I think I'm looking forward to this committal hearing more than my upcoming overseas holiday! Lol... Just can't wait to hear more details!!!!

 

[CaseClosed]

I think I'm looking forward to this committal hearing more than my upcoming overseas holiday! Lol... Just can't wait to hear more details!!!!

Yes, I've been counting months and now weeks ... very intrigued!

 

[LadyBird1]

Oh yes - I agree totally. The choice of place may be something to do with the need for the body to be found. But the fact that the road is busy during the day (moderately so, anyway) wouldn't preclude using it in the middle of the night - that was my main point. There would be very few vehicles traveling that way in the small hours.

Working on my dog whispering theory (and excluding everything else) the bridge activities would be between 11pm and 04.00am.
Therefore Light to negligible traffic.
PS I am not a proper dog whisperer as such. And the howling (if in unison with the spirit leaving) would have been going on more like an hour or little bit more. Not like the minutes I mentioned earlier. (Sorry if I was misleading there. I have been giving that a good deal of thought since posting.)
Not everyone's the same. All sorts of dynamics at work there.

 

[CaseClosed]

I recall at the time of the arrest, at some point there were 150-200 guests reading this forum every day. I hope the servers of Websleuths will be able to cope with the traffic once the committal starts.

 

[AAAA]

Yes, I've been counting months and now weeks ... very intrigued!

Can't wait also, I want to see his face compared to how he looked in real estate showings. I also am waiting with baited breath to see what family is supporting him. Not many I imagine. But I'll have to run to get a seat according to Alioop! Worth it, I say!!!

 

[CaseClosed]

Working on my dog whispering theory (and excluding everything else) the bridge activities would be between 11pm and 04.00am.
Therefore Light to negligible traffic.
PS I am not a proper dog whisperer as such. And the howling (if in unison with the spirit leaving) would have been going on more like an hour or little bit more. Not like the minutes I mentioned earlier. (Sorry if I was misleading there. I have been giving that a good deal of thought since posting.)
Not everyone's the same. All sorts of dynamics at work there.

Some locals of the area of the bridge explained back then that from around 4 am the traffic picks up. I would imagine that after about midnight, there is only the occasional vehicle and it wouldn't be too difficult to get rid of someone in the dark past that time.

 

[marlywings]

At the risk of offending peoples' sensitivities, Marly-Wiz - I think she would have just been dropped, and perhaps flip-flopped end over end and went a bit diagonally down the bank to her final resting place.

Also the bank there is steep, but the area she ended up on is relatively flat, so it's possible that she was simply rolled over the edge of the bridge, dropped onto the steep bit of bank, and she rolled diagonally with no flip-flopping. There were no broken bones, so maybe she was rolled off the edge a bit closer to the start of the bridge where it's not so high above the ground, and she didn't actually fall very far, and just rolled down to that spot. I seem to recall that rolling down a grassy bank as a kid that if you didn't "steer" yourself, you would tend to go a bit sideways due to shoulders and hips being different widths.

Of course, it's all pure guesswork on our part - did the culprit think they were over the water (middle of the night and dark - very little moon that night)? Was it the intention to get her onto the bank of the creek and not in the creek, so she would be found for insurance purposes?

And why choose that spot, indeed? Of course the area was very familiar to GBC due to the scout camp being just nearby. But there are numerous spots in and around Brookfield, including umpteen properties with easily accessible dams, that would have been closer? Or was that the point - get her further away knowing that a search would radiate out from the BC house and be unlikely to find her for quite some time? But then what about the need for her to be found for insurance claims?

Too many questions, and not enough answers....

Maybe more information in less than three weeks? I really would like to know what the whole Kenmore roundabout thing was all about, for starters....

Ok if her body rolled down the embankment, considering the amount of vegetation that was there, wouldn't there then be a lot more plant species found in her hair & on her clothes instead of just the two that were said to be from Kholo??

Also, I'm still not sure how her body could roll down & end up in the position she was found, given that it's not that great a drop from the bridge.

 

[CaseClosed]

Can't wait also, I want to see his face compared to how he looked in real estate showings. I also am waiting with baited breath to see what family is supporting him. Not many I imagine. But I'll have to run to get a seat according to Alioop! Worth it, I say!!!

I guess he will be clean shaven and a lot thinner. Also, I doubt he will look at anybody except the wall again!! :banghead:

 

[CaseClosed]

Ok if her body rolled down the embankment, considering the amount of vegetation that was there, wouldn't there then be a lot more plant species found in her hair & on her clothes instead of just the two that were said to be from Kholo??

Also, I'm still not sure how her body could roll down & end up in the position she was found, given that it's not that great a drop from the bridge.

I believe this is one of the most intriguing questions we all have ... how did she end up where she was found. I hope many experts have studied the situation, done some modelling, etc. to work out from where she came to finally rest under the bridge.

 

[marlywings]

I recall at the time of the arrest, at some point there were 150-200 guests reading this forum every day. I hope the servers of Websleuths will be able to cope with the traffic once the committal starts.

Will be busy days but we'll be fine CC ...some of the American cases handle 500 or so.

I'm just glad we're not in Sth Africa...bail hearing is being covered live right now & at this stage it seems the "bladerunner" is going to be given bail. What a schamozzle of a case!!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198850&page=45

 

[Chief of Funtime]

I believe this is one of the most intriguing questions we all have ... how did she end up where she was found. I hope many experts have studied the situation, done some modelling, etc. to work out from where she came to finally rest under the bridge.

Ok I think the official wording was that the physical position she was found in was the physical position she was in when she died . Not the geographical position . Could she have been moved during the rigimortis stage and the lividity results refer to this ? The charge of interfering with the body bothers me . It's not a charge you hear of often.

 

[CaseClosed]

Ok I think the official wording was that the physical position she was found in was the physical position she was in when she died . Not the geographical position . Could she have been moved during the rigimortis stage and the lividity results refer to this ? The charge of interfering with the body bothers me . It's not a charge you hear of often.

I believe that during the first Bail Hearing it was mentioned that the "interfering with the body" charge referred to her having been moved from where she died (in or around the house) to another location (the bridge area). I don't think it refers to anything more sinister than having moved her after she had died.

If the lividity was consistent with the position in which they believed she died, then some rigor mortis must have started before she was moved (which I believe is at least a couple of hours). Was the perp taking his time to plan what to do next, i.e. how to get rid of her, hence he did not dispose of her immediately? Was he attempting to get help from his family? Oh, so many questions!!!

 

[Zim]

I am watching the Pistorius (Blade-Runner) case very closely.
Another case of femicide ! Shocking !

 

[Maigret]

Oh yes - I agree totally. The choice of place may be something to do with the need for the body to be found. But the fact that the road is busy during the day (moderately so, anyway) wouldn't preclude using it in the middle of the night - that was my main point. There would be very few vehicles traveling that way in the small hours.

And don't forget there was a report of two cars seen and theories on here at the time assumed one car was used to block passing traffic's view of what was happening out the back of the other car .

 

[Maigret]

I am watching the Pistorius (Blade-Runner) case very closely.
Another case of femicide ! Shocking !

His story does seem very suss doesn't it - the police there seem to have bungled the investigation a bit though

 

[Fuskier]

Ok I think the official wording was that the physical position she was found in was the physical position she was in when she died . Not the geographical position . Could she have been moved during the rigimortis stage and the lividity results refer to this ? The charge of interfering with the body bothers me . It's not a charge you hear of often.

Chief, here is another charge of interfering with a corpse currently before the QLD Courts:
http://www.couriermail.com.au Kate Kyriacou From: The Courier-Mail, February 07, 2013 10:52AM
ACCUSED killer Brett Cowan has been committed to stand trial for the murder of Daniel Morcombe. He is facing charges of murder, child stealing, deprivation of liberty, indecent treatment of a child and interfering with a corpse.

 

[DrWatson]

I believe that during the first Bail Hearing it was mentioned that the "interfering with the body" charge referred to her having been moved from where she died (in or around the house) to another location (the bridge area). I don't think it refers to anything more sinister than having moved her after she had died.

If the lividity was consistent with the position in which they believed she died, then some rigor mortis must have started before she was moved (which I believe is at least a couple of hours). Was the perp taking his time to plan what to do next, i.e. how to get rid of her, hence he did not dispose of her immediately? Was he attempting to get help from his family? Oh, so many questions!!!

Just one point on that, CC - the lividity doesn't correlate with rigor mortis. Rigor comes on around 3-4 hours after death, lasting up to 48 hours or a bit more depending on ambient temperature.

Lividity starts to build up as soon as the heart stops, but becomes visible within that first half hour or so, and is "fixed" by 2-3 hours. However, movement of the body during that time delays the appearance. Once it HAS appeared and is "set", then FURTHER movement of the body will NOT change the position of the livor mortis.

So Allison could have been moved to Kholo within that first hour or so, with the movement preventing lividity from "setting". Once she was in her final position, as found, then the lividity developed and remained. The rigor mortis would have developed and gone through its cycle while she was in that position. The lividity would be how the pathologist was able to say that her position remained unchanged since she was put there "a short time after her death".

 

[Mountain Misst]

... And why choose that spot, indeed? Of course the area was very familiar to GBC due to the scout camp being just nearby. But there are numerous spots in and around Brookfield, including umpteen properties with easily accessible dams, that would have been closer? Or was that the point - get her further away knowing that a search would radiate out from the BC house and be unlikely to find her for quite some time? But then what about the need for her to be found for insurance claims?

Too many questions, and not enough answers....

Doc, GBC did a property inspection in the area that day didn't he? Remember the story about the cut in his hand when he was changing a lightbulb. The location of that property is very close to Kholo Creek bridge.

That would instigate the 'intellect' rule: Last information in the brain is the first information out of the brain...
He'd crossed a bridge, "Oh I remember, that'll do" and off he went. IMO GBC is a 'reactive' personality type. We know that from his replies to the media: He asks a question in response to a question being asked of him in order to avoid answering the initial question..
From my knowledge base, I suggest that this man operates on cunning rather than reasoning.

 

[Fuskier]

Doc, GBC did a property inspection in the area that day didn't he? Remember the story about the cut in his hand when he was changing a lightbulb. The location of that property is very close to Kholo Creek bridge.

That would instigate the 'intellect' rule: Last information in the brain is the first information out of the brain...
He'd crossed a bridge, "Oh I remember, that'll do" and off he went. IMO GBC is a 'reactive' personality type. We know that from his replies to the media: He asks a question in response to a question being asked of him in order to avoid answering the initial question..
From my knowledge base, I suggest that this man operates on cunning rather than reasoning.

Just a query: It is alleged that GBC did a property inspection that Thursday in the area of Kholo Bridge. Who else attended this property inspection with him? It is alleged he appeared at the children's race day that same afternoon with scratches and red eyes and a cut on his hand. So this was after the property inspection in which he claims he cut his hand changing a lightbulb? Speculating, if there was DV in one relationship, what is the liklihood of DV in another relationship?

 

[possumheart]

Just a query: It is alleged that GBC did a property inspection that Thursday in the area of Kholo Bridge. Who else attended this property inspection with him? It is alleged he appeared at the children's race day that same afternoon with scratches and red eyes and a cut on his hand. So this was after the property inspection in which he claims he cut is hand changing a lightbulb? Speculating, if there was DV in one relationship, what is the liklihood of DV in another relationship?

Which goes back to the question I posed awhile back ... did Toni scratch him?