Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #46

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Saxons said:
Hi Possum - havent been on here for a long time, but felt the need to read and catch up. I agree with you, and even though I had seen them before...the photos of the rental Brookfield house seem so very incongruous with the Allison we want to know. It looks almost derelict and full of junk at the back and grass overgrowing play equipment. I want to ask...do we definitely know what their (ABC and GBC) living arrangements were before her death? Both were living there fulltime with the children? It just seems the photos are at odds with the type of mother that Allison would be. The first 3 pics in the series below are what concern me...

http://multimedia.aapnewswire.com.au/search.aspx?search=baden+clay+arrest+brisbane%26(importdate%3E20120613)&gallery=BADEN+CLAY+ARREST+BRISBANE

I guess I just find it odd, but I dont mean any disrespect to Allison at all. But sometimes things that appear out of character can be a clue to whats happening in that persons life.

All MOO
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I've always wondered about this too. It just doesn't seem to quite fit. But then again, GBC was far too busy with extra curricular activities to do anything around the house and any amount of requests from Allison may just have been ignored or "I'm too busy building an empire" etc. MOO
 
Saxons said:
Hi Possum - havent been on here for a long time, but felt the need to read and catch up. I agree with you, and even though I had seen them before...the photos of the rental Brookfield house seem so very incongruous with the Allison we want to know. It looks almost derelict and full of junk at the back and grass overgrowing play equipment. I want to ask...do we definitely know what their (ABC and GBC) living arrangements were before her death? Both were living there fulltime with the children? It just seems the photos are at odds with the type of mother that Allison would be. The first 3 pics in the series below are what concern me...

I guess I just find it odd, but I dont mean any disrespect to Allison at all. But sometimes things that appear out of character can be a clue to whats happening in that persons life. All MOO
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An alternate way to view this is as an outward sign of the state of that marriage: junk left everywhere, clutter not being dealt with;no pride in the home space for family & friends.

Now it takes both partners to be on the 'same page' to work together to share their home with family & friends, the message being "this is our home" welcome.

The above photos show that this was not happening in this marriage IMO. It presents as a rental property which is full of clutter.

From msm reports and court reports to date, it seems that one partner was carrying a disproportionate load and was relatively unsupported in terms of the daily child care/rearing activities with three young, dependent children, with financial worries and a marriage breakdown - whilst trying to maintain a place in the working world and further education aspirations.

It seems the other partner's emphasis was outward away from the marriage: investing in his social status/political aspirations (NLP) as a Baden-Clay from his family of origin, building his business(s) having affair(s) - all of which is time consuming. He appears to have divested in his marriage and avoided those necessary family 'tasks'; the photos may be evidence that the marriage partners were not on the 'same page'.

This is an alternative way of viewing things. We need to exercise caution and avoid 'blaming' the female, but rather see it as outward evidence of the breakdown of that marriage IMO.
 
Aberline_1979 said:
LoL! I found....THIS...again.

My eyes! My ears! :notgood:

http://video.news.com.au/v/8354/Gerard-BadenClay-real-estate

Well...for those of you who haven't seen it before, don't say you weren't warned...
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I couldn't watch it all. I'll try again when my stomach and blood pressure settles down.

As for their home, depression is a all consuming thing just ask a woman who has suffered just half what Allison was going through, I'm understanding that.
It's a wonder the father who was a vacuum cleaner <modsnip> couldn't start the mower or have property management do the lawns. They were in real estate!
 
ozazure said:
I don't know what sort of person she was, but I do know she had a job, three young kids who also did extracurricular activities, a ****** cheating husband, depression and huge money worries. I imagine she would have poured her finite energy into the kids and not had much time or money or help to spruce up the house.
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I agree with you! and as I said, I am not for one moment casting any type of judgement on her housekeeping skills. I can well imagine Allison would have been both depressed and desolate in her marriage, and certainly would not have has the emotional motivation nor financial resources to play Martha Stewart. She was certainly still taking an interest in her appearance by having her hair done though, and yet its known that a loss of interest in personal appearance can be a marker of depressive illness.

But the house and yard not only look unkempt, they look almost derelict. I am just pondering as to whether she, GBC or the children were actually living fulltime in the house in the months leading up to her death?
 
they'll get you said:
It's a wonder the father who was a vacuum cleaner<modsnip> couldn't start the mower or have property management do the lawns. They were in real estate!
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Yes....it's a real mystery indeed. Especially since <modsnip> was all suited up and ready to tour the neighbourhood doing odd real estate cleaning jobs all day with their banged up old vacuum cleaner...
 
Mountain Misst said:
...

Countdown according to my notes - E&OE

3rd and 4th February - Pretrial hearing
24th February - recording of evidence ...
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FIVE WEEKS to the preliminary hearing. Watching,waiting for the next stage in the Justice process to begin.

:coffeews:
 
Humdinger, Alioop has posted the following information which may help answer some questions:

alioop said:
Re the pre trial hearing in February, here is the relevant legislation about the matters that can be dealt with at those hearings.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s590aa.html

Their main purpose is to sort out issues to avoid complicating or delaying the trial to try to streamline the running of the trial. So if there are going to be challenges to evidence admissibility for eg, sort that out at the pretrial. It is a type of voir dire ( preliminary examination without the jury) as Tishy correctly pointed out.

They may seek a direction at the pre trial hearing for eg for the jurors to be taken to various locations such as the bridge where Allison was found. GBC may apply for a judge only trial, which I doubt. Several witnesses may be called. It's only set down for 2 days so its not going to be too substantial in that there isn't time for many witnesses. The prosecution and defence would be going in to the pretrial hearing with a likely agreed list of issues they seek direction about.

I don't believe it will be a closed hearing, however there may be a non publication order to the media in order for potential jurors not to hear about evidence that may be held inadmissible at trial...
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Personally, I will be most interested in what evidence is sought by both the prosecution and the defence from Carmel Ritchie, the counsellor from Relationships Australia. That has me really intrigued. Especially as both sides WANT her to testify, yet she still tried to avoid having to do so.

I'm taking that to mean that each side will be trying to get her to present evidence favourable to their case - which will be interesting if it's the same evidence, but spun different ways....

:scared:
 
DrWatson said:
Personally, I will be most interested in what evidence is sought by both the prosecution and the defence from Carmel Ritchie, the counsellor from Relationships Australia. That has me really intrigued. Especially as both sides WANT her to testify, yet she still tried to avoid having to do so.

I'm taking that to mean that each side will be trying to get her to present evidence favourable to their case - which will be interesting if it's the same evidence, but spun different ways....

:scared:
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She really has seemed surprisingly reluctant to testify. Sure, there was technically a bit of a legal grey-area involved re: the confidentiality of therapy sessions...but did she (or her legal team) REALLY believe that the courts were going to rule in her favour in the end?

I wonder if all of her methods were "sound"? Or did she (in hindsight) realise she fell for Gerard's typical victim spiel? (e.g. "Allison isn't the 'proper wife' I wanted to have. She's too successful, etc. She doesn't appreciate how great of a husband I am...blah blah blah...").
 
DrWatson said:
Personally, I will be most interested in what evidence is sought by both the prosecution and the defence from Carmel Ritchie, the counsellor from Relationships Australia. That has me really intrigued. Especially as both sides WANT her to testify, yet she still tried to avoid having to do so.

I'm taking that to mean that each side will be trying to get her to present evidence favourable to their case - which will be interesting if it's the same evidence, but spun different ways....

:scared:
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Happy New Year all... :fireworks2:

Has it been determined as to whether it was a directive from the company Relationships Australia that one of their employees should not take the stand, or was it a personal objection by the counsellor?
If it were RA I'd be asking why... which leads me to ask whether the counsellor's credentials are appropriate for the role that she played in the sessions with the B-C couple.

I'll be doing my best to be there for those answers at the pretrial.
 
With no further arrests in connection with Allison's death, and with little support to the theory of her suicide (especially taking place in the vicinity of where her body was found) ....... it seems to be the case that the Defence for GBC would be trying to argue that it wasn't GBC / but SOMEONE ELSE! (Who?) Unless, of course, he decides to plead guilty. Oh what a tangled web has been woven ..... with all of their antics.
 
Couldbe said:
With no further arrests in connection with Allison's death, and with little support to the theory of her suicide (especially taking place in the vicinity of where her body was found) ....... it seems to be the case that the Defence for GBC would be trying to argue that it wasn't GBC / but SOMEONE ELSE! (Who?) Unless, of course, he decides to plead guilty. Oh what a tangled web has been woven ..... with all of their antics.
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Couldbe, having been at the committal, hearing TM's evidence and reading her statements, I thought at the time that she would be a good candidate for GBC to try to blame for Allison's murder. Something about the way GBC's barrister asked questions of her and her answers. Not that I think she had anything to do with it, just that she seemed so oblivious to the fact that he told her it was over and she still believed that she was going to be with him. Like she was blinded to reality by her 'love' for him. Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Having said that, I think that during the trial if things don't go well for GBC, he might plead guilty to manslaughter and say he panicked.

Only 6 months to go! :jail::jail::jail:
 
BreakingNews said:
Couldbe, having been at the committal, hearing TM's evidence and reading her statements, I thought at the time that she would be a good candidate for GBC to try to blame for Allison's murder. Something about the way GBC's barrister asked questions of her and her answers. Not that I think she had anything to do with it, just that she seemed so oblivious to the fact that he told her it was over and she still believed that she was going to be with him. Like she was blinded to reality by her 'love' for him. Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Having said that, I think that during the trial if things don't go well for GBC, he might plead guilty to manslaughter and say he panicked.

Only 6 months to go! :jail::jail::jail:
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..... entirely see what you mean ... a bit like:-
"Do not forsake me, oh my darlin'
You made that promise as a bride
Do not forsake me, oh my darlin'
Although you're grievin', don't think of leavin'
Now that I need you by my side".

Quite pathetic ..... TM has already been provided by the Police, with the evidence of what a cad he was.
 
We have all had our stomach contents curdle in response to the 'little bit hurt' news video when GBC suddenly comes over all sleazy and manipulative. Remember that look.

Can't you see that performer getting all misty and righteous as he tells TM he can't leave Allison because of her mental health? Can't you imagine her finding nobility in his martyrdom and equating it to her own righteousness in leaving her partner so as not to be an adulterer ... and comforting poor Gerard, the victim?

Can you see how shabby and open-ended Gerard kept his financial affairs? The 'SETTLE' number plates were a ruse. The Committal hearing was delayed for months because his books were so tangled. [Ah, but he would have been OK if not for the floods.] He was not above asking politicians for loans: Bruce Flegg: "(Sue Heath) said it [the phone call] was terrible as Gerard was in tears, agitated and fearful. I remember Sue was upset and distressed when she told me about the call." Pushed her buttons, didn't he?

What would G say to a Marriage counsellor? That it was all terribly complicated? What would he say? Remember that look? The counsellor may feel that he played her.

Where better to learn to manipulate women than in your family of origin? I think from day one Olivia has been helping Gerard to shop for a legal team that will see things as G has made her see them - with G as the victim, and with her as a victim by proxy: &#8216;&#8216;What has been overlooked by the media in this terrible tragedy is that Allison was my friend, she was my sister-in-law, and I love her,&#8217;&#8217; she sobbed.

Boo hoo!


MOO
 
possumheart said:
We have all had our stomach contents curdle in response to the 'little bit hurt' news video when GBC suddenly comes over all sleazy and manipulative. Remember that look.

Can't you see that performer getting all misty and righteous as he tells TM he can't leave Allison because of her mental health? Can't you imagine her finding nobility in his martyrdom and equating it to her own righteousness in leaving her partner so as not to be an adulterer ... and comforting poor Gerard, the victim?

Can you see how shabby and open-ended Gerard kept his financial affairs? The 'SETTLE' number plates were a ruse. The Committal hearing was delayed for months because his books were so tangled. [Ah, but he would have been OK if not for the floods.] He was not above asking politicians for loans: Bruce Flegg: "(Sue Heath) said it [the phone call] was terrible as Gerard was in tears, agitated and fearful. I remember Sue was upset and distressed when she told me about the call." Pushed her buttons, didn't he?

What would G say to a Marriage counsellor? That it was all terribly complicated? What would he say? Remember that look? The counsellor may feel that he played her.

Where better to learn to manipulate women than in your family of origin? I think from day one Olivia has been helping Gerard to shop for a legal team that will see things as G has made her see them - with G as the victim, and with her as a victim by proxy: ‘‘What has been overlooked by the media in this terrible tragedy is that Allison was my friend, she was my sister-in-law, and I love her,’’ she sobbed.

Boo hoo!


MOO
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Possumheart - See what you mean .... It sure is extremely difficult, without Olivia and her husband having some knowledge of the incident that we don't have, to understand how they can be so sure of GBC's innocence.... sure looks like blind faith, and until the trial of GBC conclusively reveals otherwise, they feel validated in acting in their self-righteous manner. When, during the trial, more information is revealed to their 'Persecutors, the Press and the Public', there will no doubt be more of the bizarre behaviour which will emerge to protect their 'honour'.
 
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