Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight FOUND! #3

[SophieRose]

I believe that was the oldest girl, Angie. But I think she moved out before any of the women got kidnapped.

Angie, the oldest girl, was probably out of his house by 2004, as she would have been about 24. She lived in Indiana for several years.

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/n...eveland-Kidnapper-Grow-Larger--206660771.html

She last saw her father this past March.

 

[nikb]

I think it was just a coincidence of timing as we've heard nothing about Amanda losing any prior pregnancies. I also think that Michelle begged Castro to let her go so she could continue to fight for custody of her son. Learning that she had lost custody probably caused him to believe that she was unsuitable as a mother for his children, hence the five brutally forced miscarriages.

BBM - hm interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that before. I'm curious if you're basing this on something you read (in MSM or something you can share), or do you just think that's probably what she would have done? Both totally valid, I was just wondering.

I guess I kind of pictured the poor girls scared and suffering in silence most of the time, but I have no idea if that's the case or not. I suppose they had to have talked at least some in all that time. I picture mostly him barking orders at them and maybe other manipulative things, but I can't even picture how the girls might have responded. I wonder how much they talked to him when he was there, and how much they talked to each other when he wasn't.

I know we may never know and I certainly don't feel entitled to any of that information - just some of the things I think about.

 

[DD_bwest]

It is when you are naked and are using threads from your bedding.

The guy is working on his insanity defence.

he can act as crazy as he wants, he wrote a diary. It shows he was aware of what he was doing, and that it was wrong.

 

[carmenugt]

And how did he get her in the house without her knowing, if she lived there?

That is a good point. I know there are articles that she stayed with her dad. However, her mother lived on 110th. Maybe she stayed initially and then went with the other children. I doubt she lived therein 2oo2 when he started abducting young girls.

 

[SophieRose]

I read \it somewhere while sleuthing the house. I read somewhere that AC owed 2500 dollars in back city taxes. did look at the county fiscal department and researched his property.
The family came from Puerto Rich and the father made them a good life. He had a used car lot and rental properties.

I read in comments on another site that Castro owed five years of property taxes.

 

[carmenugt]

That is a good point. I know there are articles that she stayed with her dad. However, her mother lived on Liberty Maybe she stayed initially and then went with the other children. I doubt she lived therein 2oo2 when he started abducting young girls.

[/U]

found it
Emily and Arlene Castro, teenagers themselves, did not live with their father. Their mother, Grimilda Figueroa, had married Colon and brought her daughters to live with them over on West 110th Street. Allegations of sexual molestation against Colon soon threatened the stability of the household. Law enforcement once again zeroed in on Fernando Colon, all while Ariel Castro egged them onward. As his daughters continued to accuse Colon of touching them inappropriately - of penetrating them - Ariel Castro began visiting them more frequently and showering them uncharacteristically with gifts. They didn’t spend much time at Castro’s Seymour Avenue house, though. He ensured that much.
http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and...-ariel-castro-cleveland-kidnapper-and-monster

 

[nikb]

I was just wasting time on trutv and found this
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/heidnik/index_1.html

How weird considering the circumstances here...

Wow, that is horrible all on its own, but reading it while Amanda/Gina/Michelle's situation is heavily on my mind is just plain eerie.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

More likely it was because she was one of the smarter, better looking of the girls, so in his mind she was "good stock" to make a baby with that he could be proud of.

Michelle on the other hand doesn't seem to have any of that going for her (if her family is anything to go by), so he did not under any circumstances want a baby with her, hence forcing her to abort when she got pregnant. That must have been just horrible and soul destroying for her, he probably would have explained why he was doing it.

Sadistic sociopaths are very adept at preying on existing weaknesses of their victims, and we all have our weak spots. If he sensed that Michelle was less self confident than the other girls, he probably enjoyed exploiting that.

 

[singers]

eh, apparently Gina has added a detail that Arlene failed to mention

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...astro-was-accuser-in-sexual-assault-case?lite

According to Chris Giannini, a private investigator who at the time was Colon’s boss, when school let out that day, Arlene Castro and DeJesus walked to Westown Square, the nearby shopping center where Colon worked as a security officer. Arlene asked Colon if Gina could come over and spend the night.

When Colon said” no,” according to Giannini, the girls tried to get around Fernando “by checking with mom” via payphone. He said the girls got a second “no” from Figueroa.

'The last one to see Gina'
After Gina DeJesus disappeared, Arlene Castro told investigators that she and her friend went their separate ways when their sleepover was nixed. But according to a Cleveland police report issued Wednesday, Gina DeJesus has added a new detail. She says that before they separated, they also talked to Ariel Castro. After the girls split up, DeJesus now says, Ariel Castro returned and offered her a ride, which she accepted.

---
If true Arlene was not honest in her testimony

 

[Bambina]

More likely it was because she was one of the smarter, better looking of the girls, so in his mind she was "good stock" to make a baby with that he could be proud of.

Michelle on the other hand doesn't seem to have any of that going for her (if her family is anything to go by), so he did not under any circumstances want a baby with her, hence forcing her to abort when she got pregnant. That must have been just horrible and soul destroying for her, he probably would have explained why he was doing it.

The timing is too coincidental to me, if I have the dates correct. Mother dies in March 2006 and baby born late December that same year.

I think that Michelle was likely a burden to him. From the information released, she seemed to have received the most physical abuse. I wonder if she was spared because of a protective force by Amanda and Gina.

I think that he regretted taking Gina and probably felt the most guilty (in his twisted way) about this abduction.

As for Amanda, I speculate that he was "in love" with her and he believed that they had forged a relationship together (similar to Garrido's sick tale). Amanda was in survival mode and may have fostered that belief. But when her Mother died, she may have pulled back any false pretenses. He feared the loss of his "relationship" with her. And so the child was his gift to her. Because, notwithstanding any sick feelings he had toward Amanda, I don't think that he ever desired a baby in that house to complicate his situation. But he owed Amanda. She had lost her Mother during her captivity and she was alone more than ever. And so, to prove his love, he let her carry forward with the pregnancy.

 

[Spice]

I was thinking about the third daughter, the one who tried to kill her child. According to reports, she suffered from manic depression. I bet her father is like that as well, bi-polar, which could explain his behaviour. Why he appeared to be a perfectly normal guy most of the time, but was given over to bouts of extreme behaviour at other times.

This guy is not bipolar. He is the epitome of antisocial personality disorder. He is the very definition of a sociopath. Every thing he did lacked compassion and empathy, cold, calculating, taunting, evil. His entire life was about controlling others.

Did you read the article where one relative said he used to take his nephews and nieces out and do these really bizarre things like buy one hamburger, tear it into 4 pieces, and then watch them eat it. Same with the soda, he would mark the cup and make sure each of them sipped up to a specific line. I will try to find it. I read it the other day. His nephew said he was always freaked out by him.

Bipolar disorder is a mood disorder with periods of extreme mania and then periods of extreme depression. It has nothing to do with lacking empathy or cruelty. He could have never pulled this off for ten years if he was bipolar, he would have lacked the control he needed over himself to constantly control those poor women.

This entire case sickens me, and from what I have been reading, the signs that Ariel was sociopathic were all over the place. His ability to wear a "mask" so that others would find him lovable and nice while beating his wife like an animal behind closed doors was a giant red flag. Oh and that mannequin. So creepy.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It is when you are naked and are using threads from your bedding.

The guy is working on his insanity defence.

It will never work. He could have walked around his own house naked all the time. A lot of people are nudists. Maybe he had something stuck in his teeth and it was driving him nuts. Using string as dental floss isn't really that crazy if you know your never going to walk free again.

The guy worked a job up until recently and effectively communicated with others. There are no grounds for insanity.

 

[AnaTeresa]

It will never work. He could have walked around his own house naked all the time. A lot of people are nudists. Maybe he had something stuck in his teeth and it was driving him nuts. Using string as dental floss isn't really that crazy if you know your never going to walk free again.

The guy worked a job up until recently and effectively communicated with others. There are no grounds for insanity.

There is a really high bar to get over, if you're going to present an insanity defense. Odd jail behavior or whatnot will not get you there. It likely won't even get him to incompetent to stand trial. Plus, even if he manages temporary incompetence, they will medicate him till he's competent, and then have him stand trial.

An insanity defense only works when the person is under a deep psychosis at the time of the crime, such that he cannot understand right from wrong, or what he was doing. Obviously that's not the case here, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about it. Dude can floss all he wants, he's not going anywhere.

 

[Chilly Willy]

BBM - hm interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that before. I'm curious if you're basing this on something you read (in MSM or something you can share), or do you just think that's probably what she would have done? Both totally valid, I was just wondering.

I guess I kind of pictured the poor girls scared and suffering in silence most of the time, but I have no idea if that's the case or not. I suppose they had to have talked at least some in all that time. I picture mostly him barking orders at them and maybe other manipulative things, but I can't even picture how the girls might have responded. I wonder how much they talked to him when he was there, and how much they talked to each other when he wasn't.

I know we may never know and I certainly don't feel entitled to any of that information - just some of the things I think about.

No, I haven't read it anywhere, it's just a thought I had while trying to figure out why Castro allowed Amanda's pregnancy to continue but aborted Michelle's. I could be totally wrong. My thought is that, since the custody battle was foremost on Michelle's mind when she was captured, she probably told him about it right away while begging to be released.

 

[Sparklin]

Found it... The girls were trying to stay together. They called each parent hoping one of them would say "yes." Ariel was the last parent called for permission. He knew Gina would be walking alone

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...astro-was-accuser-in-sexual-assault-case?lite

Arlene asked her STEPfather first, then called her mother. It doesn't say she called her father. And neither did Arlene mention seeing her father during that time, however, a report has stated that Gina is confirming that Ariel WAS there and that once the girls separated (did Ariel drive Arlene home?) he came back for her.

 

[Spice]

No, I haven't read it anywhere, it's just a thought I had while trying to figure out why Castro allowed Amanda's pregnancy to continue but aborted Michelle's. I could be totally wrong. My thought is that, since the custody battle was foremost on Michelle's mind when she was captured, that she probably told him about it right away while begging to be released.

It is very common among abusers to single one person out to abuse more. Its a sick way of maintaining a homeostasis within the abusive situation, home, or "family unit." It is strikingly common in child protection work to find one child out of many in a single home, malnourished and physically, and psychologically abused while the others are well fed, emotionally cared for and untouched.

In this case, Ariel obviously viciously abused all of them, but he clearly abused Michelle more, physically (beating her to cause abortions, and causing damage to her facial structure and hearing) and psychologically (choosing her to deliver Amanda's baby after killing 5 of hers). Maybe it was because Michelle was the oldest? It is said that she had cognitive delays, maybe it was that? He also mentioned that he was "surprised" at Gina's age, apparently he thought she was older than 14 when he abducted her. Who can tell with this sociopathic animal ? Why did he do anything that he did other than he lacks what makes us human (empathy) and is just pure evil.

Amanda's mother always maintained that she received that phone call shortly after Amanda was abducted from Amanda's cell phone, which we can now assume was definitely Ariel. In that call he said he had Amanda and would return her in a few days. He also said that he wanted her to "be his wife." That stood out to me from the beginning, seeing as she was the only one "permitted" to give birth. I think he was more fixated on her for whatever reason.

 

[mothert]

I do not think there was an ounce of kindness in letting her have the baby. Everything was about control, her mother had died so now he could use the baby to control her. He is not crazy, just pure evil.

 

[Kimster]

I'm going to make you guys a new thread in a few minutes. Be sure to pack your bags. :blowkiss:

 

[Kimster]

New thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209115"]Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]