Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #5

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ckia2013 said:
Michelle has legally changed her name and was staying with a friend outside of Cleveland. Not sure whether the letter posted below refers to the initial place she was staying or a new one. I haven't heard any mention of school, but I do know that she wants to be a motivational speaker. As far as I know, she has not seen her son.

Amanda recently moved out of her sister's house and into her own home in Lakewood, OH (a suburb of Cleveland).

Gina still lives with her parents, in Cleveland, and is being home-schooled.

9eyv.JPG
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Well her story sure inspired me. I think she would be a great motivational speaker. I love this girl . I am so rooting for her to have a good life for a change. I hope she gets to connect with her son. He would be very proud of his mother. She had so much determination not to let Castro break her spirit. That the evil one couldnt touch.
 
Skully said:
Regarding this 911 call, here is how I feel about it. They were separated, and held captive for a decade. Your mind changes, and she may have felt alone a lot of the time, not really thinking of them, but of her hell and the fact she had to keep him happy to protect her daughter. When it came time to escape, she did, and her only thoughts were one of escape. What came out of her mouth may not have included them, but it was panic and surreal for her, and she knew everyone would be taken out of there. People in captivity don't always say and act the way we think they should act.
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Imagine after 10 years of believing this now was your life to get that one opportunity to break free. She knew the cops needed to come ASAP and if the escape attempt failed and he found out probably he would have killed them all.
 
Taterz said:
I also thought Amanda had mentioned Gina on the 911 call. The second time she was trying to impress upon the dispatcher who she was, when he says "I got that", it is hard to hear but sounds to me like she says "with Georgina". Could easily be something else she is saying, can't really tell for certain.
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:welcome:​
Welcome to the forum, Taterz. Great first post; I think you're right! I've never noticed that before! It totally does sound like she says "I've been on the news for the last 10 years... with Georgina".

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goK8gqcdqbA"]911 Call[/ame]

Edit: The line is around 1:14 in the YouTube video. Oh, and Anderson Cooper thinks she mentions Gina too!

"[Amanda] said that she was aware she's been on the news for the past ten years. She also, I think -- I believe I heard her mention 'with Georgina'. That would be Georgina DeJesus, who was 14 when she went missing in 2004, on her way home from school."
- Anderson Cooper, http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/06/acd.02.html

Also, the "with Georgina" comment is included in the following transcript of the 911 call:
http://fox4kc.com/2013/05/08/911-call-from-amanda-berry-criticized-now-under-review/
 
ckia2013 said:
I heard an "O" on the end too! =)

I vaguely recall that Amanda was having trouble remembering the details, but I have no idea where I heard that. My guess is that she will stay out of the Ramsey vs. Cordero debate, but only time will tell....

I agree that the rescue must have been chaotic (for everyone!), and I wish people would cut Amanda slack for not mentioning the other girls in her 911 call. Web-sleuthers have been smart enough to do so, but Amanda is getting *A LOT* of flak on twitter. A big can of worms was opened on Dr. Phil.
:worms:

I *really* hope Michelle can make peace with Amanda. The resentment seems so trivial (to me), but as Skully brilliantly brought up in an earlier post, Castro may have pitted the girls against each other. I hope the focus redirects to enjoying their freedom and trying to heal.
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Oh whew, wasn't just me on Angel's name. :)

I agree on all of your points. Amanda was in a panic. Who knows if she knew the police would search the house or not... I think her priority was to get them there NOW! We've all or mostly all heard the 911 call. I just can't imagine her going "Oh wait, there are some other people in the house, their names are ____"? I can't. For that matter I don't think she mentioned her daughter either at that point, IIRC. I have a feeling that she would've told the police that there were others in the house when they got there. For that matter, maybe she did. ETA: just caught up on the other posts and I see it looks like she did mention Gina on the call and both of the others when police got there. I don't recall her mentioning her daughter though. In any case I think her priority was GET HERE NOW.

I hope all of them can make peace with each other. I'm sure there are some resentments and hurts all the way around, and I have zero doubt that Castro is at the root of 99.9% of it. The other .1% I kind of attribute to just people being people - everyone's different, not everyone looks at the world the same way, not everyone gets along... and that's totally normal. Add in the horrific circumstances and a complete maniac feeding into every little thing that might make relationships worse... well, I'm sure you know what I'm getting at (least I hope so).

I'm sure their healing will take a very long time, but I hope and believe they can get there. I hope they can combine that with a healthy dose of enjoying their freedom and learning to live day to day life too. Every little thing must still seem a little foreign, after being in that house for so long.
 
concernedmother said:
Imagine after 10 years of believing this now was your life to get that one opportunity to break free. She knew the cops needed to come ASAP and if the escape attempt failed and he found out probably he would have killed them all.
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My father was a POW in WWII. He was held captive for more than 2 yrs and was shuffled to at least 5 different camps around Europe. His conditions were horrible. Many times he was in the mountain areas in winter, with no shoes, no coat, just flimsy cotton PJ to work outside digging graves or clearing rocks and making way for a German Road to go though. He would wrap his feet in rags, so his feet wouldn't stick to the frozen ground and tear off the skin. He was starved, beaten and sick. He was liberated at the end of the war, but he was never the same. He never told us what all went on, but we knew some of it as some things came out over the 40 yrs I knew him. I saw a picture of him when he was liberated and he weighted 70 lbs. He simply couldn't speak of it. He told me "you do what you have to do to survive". I think these girls did just that. They live with the devil himself and survived him. I can't imagine it, not 11 yrs of torture.
 
I think Amanda may have somehow maintained a clear head in that she may have been trying to impress upon the 911 operator that hers was a very real emergency, intentionally mentioning that she and "Georgina" had been on the news throughout the last ten years. It is a sad fact that Michelle's name was rarely, if ever, mentioned even early on. She may have referred to herself and "Georgina" and not included Michelle's name because Michelle's was not a name anyone, including the 911 operator would have been familiar with. Amanda was surely most concerned for her daughter as most any mother would be. But, I think Michelle's perception of Amanda may have been influenced by the horrible treatment she received by that slime who seemed to play favorites. Amanda, her daughter, and Gina were profoundly affected and harmed as well. There can be no minimizing what each of them suffered.

I have only compassion for Michelle. I wish her peace and healing as I do for all of the victims.
 
A couple of points (IMO, of course) about the relationship between Michelle and Amanda...

Castro seemed to enjoy the psychological abuse as much as the physical/sexual abuse. I am sure he did whatever he could to keep the girls from developing a bond. It sounds like he was not successful with Gina and Michelle, and with Gina and Amanda.

We have no idea what horrors these women lived through in that house. We don't know in what ways Castro might have used them against each other and to hurt each other. We just don't know, but I have the feeling there is a lot of heinous stuff we will never hear, just because it is too painful for any of them to talk about. Amanda may have felt she had no choice but to do hurtful things to Michelle to protect her daughter, if that is what Castro told her to do. Or maybe the fact that Amanda was so compliant just did not sit well with Michelle, who fought her way through captivity and took the brunt of the abuse for it.

Also, Amanda seems to have a completely different personality than Michelle. And there is an age difference. For all we know, they might never have been friends even if they met in some other way.

I have seen many people say they expect the women to have a lifetime bond because of what they endured, but honestly, it would not surprise me if they each decided to go their own way at some point. Sometimes leaving your past behind is your only chance at achieving the future you desire.

Whatever happens, I wish them all of the happiness in the world.
 
Weighing in with my :twocents: ~

There isn't a rule book when it comes to something of this magnitude. IMO, however they choose to react from here on out will be what we base typical psychological responses to this form of abuse. I am thankful we DON'T have a rule book, or that would mean it was more common.

My main position, and I'm sure the same position each of you hold, is that whatever journey they take from this point will lead to peace and acceptance in their lives.
 
nikb said:
Oh whew, wasn't just me on Angel's name. :)

I agree on all of your points. Amanda was in a panic. Who knows if she knew the police would search the house or not... I think her priority was to get them there NOW! We've all or mostly all heard the 911 call. I just can't imagine her going "Oh wait, there are some other people in the house, their names are ____"? I can't. For that matter I don't think she mentioned her daughter either at that point, IIRC. I have a feeling that she would've told the police that there were others in the house when they got there. For that matter, maybe she did. ETA: just caught up on the other posts and I see it looks like she did mention Gina on the call and both of the others when police got there. I don't recall her mentioning her daughter though. In any case I think her priority was GET HERE NOW.

I hope all of them can make peace with each other. I'm sure there are some resentments and hurts all the way around, and I have zero doubt that Castro is at the root of 99.9% of it. The other .1% I kind of attribute to just people being people - everyone's different, not everyone looks at the world the same way, not everyone gets along... and that's totally normal. Add in the horrific circumstances and a complete maniac feeding into every little thing that might make relationships worse... well, I'm sure you know what I'm getting at (least I hope so).

I'm sure their healing will take a very long time, but I hope and believe they can get there. I hope they can combine that with a healthy dose of enjoying their freedom and learning to live day to day life too. Every little thing must still seem a little foreign, after being in that house for so long.
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EXCELLENT point that Amanda did not mention her daughter!!! Your point certainly strengthens the argument that Amanda failed to mention Michelle NOT because she didn't care about her but because her sole goal was to GET THE POLICE THERE IMMEDIATELY. Thanks, nik!
 
I agree with the other posters, that Amanda shouldn't be blamed for not mentioning Michelle in the 911 call.

The whole situation must have been unimaginably stressful for Amanda, worrying that Castro could return at any moment while simultaneously having to look after her panicking daughter, talk to a frustrating 911 dispatcher, deal with strangers out in the street after being socially and physically isolated for years, etc. It think it's a wonder she was able to make the call at all.

But by the same token, I can understand where Michelle is coming from. One of the most sad parts of the Dr. Phil interview IMO was when Michelle talked about how Amanda would say "no" when Castro tried to assault her in a specific way, so Castro would then force that same kind of assault on Michelle, telling her that since Amanda wouldn't do "it", she (Michelle) had to do it instead. What this amounted to was Amanda was passing violence on to Michelle whenever she denied Castro his sick perversions, although I strongly suspect Amanda didn't realize that that was what was happening.

Michelle also confirmed that Amanda was treated better generally and, in Michelle's opinion, was a girl "who didn't get it," and didn't appreciate how badly the other girls were abused. All this put together means it's not really surprising that there was some resentment by Michelle towards Miss Berry.

I think that when Michelle found out that her name hadn't been mentioned in the 911 call, she thought it was just another time that Amanda was putting herself in a better situation, and being selfish.

But like other posters have already mentioned, I don't think that was really the case. Ariel Castro probably enjoyed pitting them against one another and this "disagreement" or whatever you want to call it between the two girls is really down to him.

I'm not going to deny though that I liked to think that all three girls were BFFs today. I guess I liked to think that they could have all come out of that dark place with an unbreakable life bond shared among one another - something great coming from something so horrible. Glad that Michelle and Gina seem to have that, anyway.

JMO
 
From watching the Dr Phil interviews my opinion of another reason of resentment was that Amanda got to have and keep her baby and all of Michelle's babies were killed. Then having to deliver and save the life of that baby. Not Amanda's fault but I could see the feelings being there.
 
CazzBa said:
I agree with the other posters, that Amanda shouldn't be blamed for not mentioning Michelle in the 911 call.

The whole situation must have been unimaginably stressful for Amanda, worrying that Castro could return at any moment while simultaneously having to look after her panicking daughter, talk to a frustrating 911 dispatcher, deal with strangers out in the street after being socially and physically isolated for years, etc. It think it's a wonder she was able to make the call at all.

But by the same token, I can understand where Michelle is coming from. One of the most sad parts of the Dr. Phil interview IMO was when Michelle talked about how Amanda would say "no" when Castro tried to assault her in a specific way, so Castro would then force that same kind of assault on Michelle, telling her that since Amanda wouldn't do "it", she (Michelle) had to do it instead. What this amounted to was Amanda was passing violence on to Michelle whenever she denied Castro his sick perversions, although I strongly suspect Amanda didn't realize that that was what was happening.

Michelle also confirmed that Amanda was treated better generally and, in Michelle's opinion, was a girl "who didn't get it," and didn't appreciate how badly the other girls were abused. All this put together means it's not really surprising that there was some resentment by Michelle towards Miss Berry.

I think that when Michelle found out that her name hadn't been mentioned in the 911 call, she thought it was just another time that Amanda was putting herself in a better situation, and being selfish.

But like other posters have already mentioned, I don't think that was really the case. Ariel Castro probably enjoyed pitting them against one another and this "disagreement" or whatever you want to call it between the two girls is really down to him.

I'm not going to deny though that I liked to think that all three girls were BFFs today. I guess I liked to think that they could have all come out of that dark place with an unbreakable life bond shared among one another - something great coming from something so horrible. Glad that Michelle and Gina seem to have that, anyway.

JMO
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I agree it could just be Michelle's perception, however tainted by that unbelievable horror of a man.

However, I sort of think, just based on my own observation, that Amanda was not subjected to much of the abuse experienced by Michelle and maybe Gina. And perhaps even allowed some privileges. She was wearing piercings and makeup when she was rescued.

Please don't think I am victim-bashing. Just saying I think it is possible the girls/women were not treated the same.

On another note, I was FLOORED at how tee-niney Michelle is! I see now why she was originally thought to have been a child. I am super tall and seeing her sitting crosslegged on the sofa talking to Dr. Phil just had me thinking "Wow!".

Big things come in small packages. This lady is something else. Not once have I heard her sound defeated by her ordeal. I can almost promise you I would never come back from something like this. Never. And I tower over Michelle. But only in stature.
 
I don't have any doubt that they were not treated the same.
If you look back, most of us guessed that Amanda was the "favorite" while Michelle had it the worst. But however better Amanda was treated, I am sure it was still atrocious.
And Amanda saved all of them. If not for Amanda, they'd all still be held prisoners.
 
I cant wait for the book to come out. Gina and Amanda must be ok with each other since they are coauthoring a book together.
 
concernedmother said:
I cant wait for the book to come out. Gina and Amanda must be ok with each other since they are coauthoring a book together.
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I agree. I got the impression that Gina and Amanda were either treated a little better (Amanda in particular), or I also thought about the fact that their ages probably made a big difference. Imagine how different your perception of that situation would be as a child/just barely teen vs. as an adult mistaken for a teen. I'm very curious to read the book and get Amanda and Gina's perceptions of the whole thing.

IMO from Michelle's comments it sounded like Castro had some level of... something... compassion isn't the right word, but some level of "something" that caused him not to abuse the younger girls as badly - not wanting to make them cry sometimes, for example. With Amanda, if she didn't want to do something he inflicted it on Michelle rather than making Amanda upset. That had to hurt mentally, emotionally, and psychologically on top of physically. Michelle also intentionally took beatings for Gina sometimes.

Michelle and Gina probably bonded more than Michelle and Amanda, because they were literally attached to each other via that chain. They were able to hold each others' hands to ease the pain at times. It sounds like Amanda was pretty isolated from them, but probably felt closer to Gina due to their ages when taken.

All of the above JMO... and I feel for all of them. As many have said they all went through their own personal he**, even if it looked/felt/seemed a little different for each of them. I wish the very best for all of them.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_WFoq5yf30"]Interview with Gina DeJesus and Nancy Ruiz. - YouTube[/ame]
Just watched this interview with Gina. She seems so shy and she is so darn cute.
 
Would anyone be interested in helping us transcribe Michelle Knight's appearances on Dr. Phil? I'm going to send an email out to our website members in hopes that they'll help too. If we can just get 16 people to do 5 minute segments, we can get this done fast =)

Or, if anyone can direct me toward a free transcribing program, that would be helpful, too! My partner downloaded one, but we can't get it to work. Can't remember the name of it, atm.
 
ckia2013 said:
Would anyone be interested in helping us transcribe Michelle Knight's appearances on Dr. Phil? I'm going to send an email out to our website members in hopes that they'll help too. If we can just get 16 people to do 5 minute segments, we can get this done fast =)

Or, if anyone can direct me toward a free transcribing program, that would be helpful, too! My partner downloaded one, but we can't get it to work. Can't remember the name of it, atm.
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Sounds like an interesting project. Is it for discussion purposes?
 
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