Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[aa9511]

Sorry aa I was confused by the post... mea culpa :scared:

LOL, it's ok Harmony It does get confusing when the original post gets lost far behind because of the replies back and forth.

 

[aa9511]

Does anyone know if Meredith (or Amanda) habitually kept their towels in their bedroom or in the bathroom?

There was a largish smear of Meredith's blood on the door jamb and on the light switch (larger than the drops on the fixtures), as if someone (Rudy) walked in with blood on his hand, maybe took of his shoe to rinse his pant leg as someone said, leaving a footprint on the bathmat, then grabbed the towels and went back into Meredith's room.

It was after he was in the small bathroom that he took the phones, money and key, and stepped in blood with his left shoe leaving the prints on the pillowcase, and then left the room leaving the bloody shoeprints int he hall.

The part I couldn't reconcile was locking the door, as has been pointed out many times, but I just tried it and it's not only easy, it's almost natural:
I stand in the bedroom with the door open to my right, insert the key, then step with my left foot over the threshhold into the hallway, pull the door shut behind me withdrawing the key, and keep walking. It's much more fluid than pulling the door shut first, facing it and then locking it, especially if you're not sure which key to use - you put the key in while the door is still open.

Your talk about large smears and towels made me think this : what if Amanda/RS dabbed a rag, or a towel, in Meredith's blood, then went to the samll bathroom and smeared in on those spots to leave the "signs" for Amanda to see in the cottage in the morning.

That would account for what Katody is always saying, that why did they clean the whole bathroom but leave those spots?

The footprint on the mat I think was left on purpose. The smears were left on purpose, using the above technique. Funny how those were smears while the ones on the faucets were drops.

I understand your point re: locking the door, but I don't think it's likely.

 

[Myvice]

I wish we knew if the other bedrooms had locks on the doors and if this was a common practice in Italy. I don't understand locking the bedroom door and why someone would even think to do that having to rummage through keys and figure out which one would fit.

Unless you are in the habit of locking your own personal bedroom door it seems strange to me that you would have the presence of mind to think of this when you're in a stressful situation. JMO

 

[quesarita]

Your talk about large smears and towels made me think this : what if Amanda/RS dabbed a rag, or a towel, in Meredith's blood, then went to the samll bathroom and smeared in on those spots to leave the "signs" for Amanda to see in the cottage in the morning.

That would account for what Katody is always saying, that why did they clean the whole bathroom but leave those spots?

The footprint on the mat I think was left on purpose. The smears were left on purpose, using the above technique. Funny how those were smears while the ones on the faucets were drops.

I understand your point re: locking the door, but I don't think it's likely.

Hm, well, I think it unlikely that anyone would deliberately muck around with blood and towels, NOT KNOWING that the police would inadvertently make the towels unusable for forensics or as evidence.

As for the door, you should try it! It's really very straightforward, especially with those cylindrical type keys they use in Europe.

 

[quesarita]

I wish we knew if the other bedrooms had locks on the doors and if this was a common practice in Italy. I don't understand locking the bedroom door and why someone would even think to do that having to rummage through keys and figure out which one would fit.

Unless you are in the habit of locking your own personal bedroom door it seems strange to me that you would have the presence of mind to think of this when you're in a stressful situation. JMO

I have not seen anything on this. My memories of places in Europe are that bedroom doors typically were locked with this type of key (no push button privacy locks as in the US) and often the key would be left in the door on the inside when you were in the room whether the door was locked or not. Then when you leave, the key is right there, you move it from the inside of the door to the outside and remove it after shutting the door.

 

[aa9511]

Hm, well, I think it unlikely that anyone would deliberately muck around with blood and towels, NOT KNOWING that the police would inadvertently make the towels unusable for forensics or as evidence.

As for the door, you should try it! It's really very straightforward, especially with those cylindrical type keys they use in Europe.

Ok, maybe not the towels. Maybe the rags if they used rags to clean up with. Yes, people wouldn't want to deliberately muck arond with blood and towels or rags, but they had no choice. Somethiing had happened, and now they were left with having to do something to rescue themselves. They really had no choice, if #1 choice - to tell the truth - was not an option for them in their minds.

The door...ok, but why would Rudy lock it in the first place?

 

[quesarita]

Ok, maybe not the towels. Maybe the rags if they used rags to clean up with. Yes, people wouldn't want to deliberately muck arond with blood and towels or rags, but they had no choice. Somethiing had happened, and now they were left with having to do something to rescue themselves. They really had no choice, if #1 choice - to tell the truth - was not an option for them in their minds.

The door...ok, but why would Rudy lock it in the first place?

Well, he's human, he hadn't ever killed anyone before, maybe he was ashamed, remorseful, maybe it was his habit to "lock away" the things he sometimes did that he knew were wrong. IMO, locking the door for reasons of delaying discovery makes less sense, unless you need time to get away to somewhere else.

I'm glad you brought up the rags used to clean up! Where are those rags???? How and when were they disposed of? Where did they come from in the first place?

 

[SMK]

Does anyone know if Meredith (or Amanda) habitually kept their towels in their bedroom or in the bathroom?

There was a largish smear of Meredith's blood on the door jamb and on the light switch (larger than the drops on the fixtures), as if someone (Rudy) walked in with blood on his hand, maybe took of his shoe to rinse his pant leg as someone said, leaving a footprint on the bathmat, then grabbed the towels and went back into Meredith's room.

It was after he was in the small bathroom that he took the phones, money and key, and stepped in blood with his left shoe leaving the prints on the pillowcase, and then left the room leaving the bloody shoeprints int he hall.

The part I couldn't reconcile was locking the door, as has been pointed out many times, but I just tried it and it's not only easy, it's almost natural:
I stand in the bedroom with the door open to my right, insert the key, then step with my left foot over the threshhold into the hallway, pull the door shut behind me withdrawing the key, and keep walking. It's much more fluid than pulling the door shut first, facing it and then locking it, especially if you're not sure which key to use - you put the key in while the door is still open.

BBM: I understand that the locking of the door may be easy to do, but wanted to note that it was the locked door and Meredith's being covered with the duvet, which made Mignini immediately think that a female had been involved with the crime. He had not yet met Amanda when he noted this.

 

[quesarita]

BBM: I understand that the locking of the door may be easy to do, but wanted to note that it was the locked door and Meredith's being covered with the duvet, which made Mignini immediately think that a female had been involved with the crime. He had not yet met Amanda when he noted this.

That is a good point. I can only address the claims that he could not have locked the door without leaving a footprint facing the door. In fact, he could have easily done so.

 

[Sonata]

I have not seen anything on this. My memories of places in Europe are that bedroom doors typically were locked with this type of key (no push button privacy locks as in the US) and often the key would be left in the door on the inside when you were in the room whether the door was locked or not. Then when you leave, the key is right there, you move it from the inside of the door to the outside and remove it after shutting the door.

There are quite a few different types of lock here in Europe. Looking at the cottage, it looked pretty old fashioned so I suspect it would have been mortice deadlocks.

 

[Amber29]

I wish we knew if the other bedrooms had locks on the doors and if this was a common practice in Italy. I don't understand locking the bedroom door and why someone would even think to do that having to rummage through keys and figure out which one would fit.

Unless you are in the habit of locking your own personal bedroom door it seems strange to me that you would have the presence of mind to think of this when you're in a stressful situation. JMO

The other doors did have locks but I believe AK and Filomena did not have keys to theirs.

Its one of the things that sticks with me, I just do not see RG locking the door, how would he even know one of her keys went to the door.

So he takes the time to lock Meredith's door but not the front door. Locking her door would do nothing for him. I mean even if he was delaying her body being found, if he had broken in does he not think once the break in is discovered, every room would be checked clearly. Not to mention he left no traces in doing so.

 

[Amber29]

I think reading Follain one needs to remain critical. This guy lies and makes stuff up easily.

What struck me is that if we were to believe this, Stephanie inexplicably forgot to testify about it. Also the British girls who knew everything about Amanda from Meredith's stories, including the vibrator and who she slept with and when strangely don't mention this at all.

Going back a bit I'm sorry but do you have a link to Stephanie's testimony? That's testimony I haven't read before and would like to.

 

[quesarita]

The other doors did have locks but I believe AK and Filomena did not have keys to theirs.

Its one of the things that sticks with me, I just do not see RG locking the door, how would he even know one of her keys went to the door.

So he takes the time to lock Meredith's door but not the front door. Locking her door would do nothing for him. I mean even if he was delaying her body being found, if he had broken in does he not think once the break in is discovered, every room would be checked clearly. Not to mention he left no traces in doing so.

I agree that locking the door does nothing for anyone involved in the crime, unless there was some unknown person there who wanted extra time to leave town.

When I stayed in hotel rooms in Europe with that type of keyed lock, I always left the key in the lock on the inside, locked or unlocked, so it would be there when I left the room and wanted to lock it from the outside. Maybe Meredith had done that but not locked the door. Or maybe the key was in her purse and he took it when he grabbed the phones and cards and money from her purse. Only his dna was inside Meredith's purse, correct?

 

[quesarita]

Going back a bit I'm sorry but do you have a link to Stephanie's testimony? That's testimony I haven't read before and would like to.

This is not testimony, but it's interesting - less overheated than later reports:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7772960&page=1

 

[Myvice]

The other doors did have locks but I believe AK and Filomena did not have keys to theirs.

Its one of the things that sticks with me, I just do not see RG locking the door, how would he even know one of her keys went to the door.

So he takes the time to lock Meredith's door but not the front door. Locking her door would do nothing for him. I mean even if he was delaying her body being found, if he had broken in does he not think once the break in is discovered, every room would be checked clearly. Not to mention he left no traces in doing so.

I agree. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know this means nothing but I just can't get past the image of the key hanging in the pic of Amanda's room. It may not even be her house key. But it seems odd that if it were that she would take it off her neck when she and RS came back to the house. They were supposedly so busy making discoveries and phone calls it's just hard for me to imagine what prompted her to take it off.

 

[aa9511]

Well, he's human, he hadn't ever killed anyone before, maybe he was ashamed, remorseful, maybe it was his habit to "lock away" the things he sometimes did that he knew were wrong. IMO, locking the door for reasons of delaying discovery makes less sense, unless you need time to get away to somewhere else.

I'm glad you brought up the rags used to clean up! Where are those rags???? How and when were they disposed of? Where did they come from in the first place?

They probably came from RS"s house. I don't know how they were disposed of, but seeing as Amanda was probably up at early hours and out at the cleaning shop, RS was probably out at the same time, doing stuff like throwing the rags away somewhere. If you think about it, we know the crime happened before midnight, that gave them a whole 12 hours to do this stuff - from midnight to around 12 pm noon. But they wouldn't have been going around during the broad daytime throwing out stuff, it would be when not a lot of people were around - this fits in perfectly with the around 5-7 or 8 am timeframe.

 

[quesarita]

"Relatives recalled the last time they talked with the victim, and how she was planning to go back home for her mother's birthday later that month. They said that during their phone conversations with the victim over the period she was away, Kercher barely mentioned Knox."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-knox-set-to-testify-in-italian-murder-trial/

 

[Myvice]

Regarding Stephanie's testimony, it's obvious to me that they weren't getting along. AK made calls to MK on Halloween wanting to hook up and MK wouldn't return the calls.

I can only imagine how that would make AK feel.

 

[quesarita]

I agree. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I know this means nothing but I just can't get past the image of the key hanging in the pic of Amanda's room. It may not even be her house key. But it seems odd that if it were that she would take it off her neck when she and RS came back to the house. They were supposedly so busy making discoveries and phone calls it's just hard for me to imagine what prompted her to take it off.

I don't know, maybe that was her room key and she always left it there, not locking the door when she wasn't home.

 

[aa9511]

I agree that locking the door does nothing for anyone involved in the crime, unless there was some unknown person there who wanted extra time to leave town.

When I stayed in hotel rooms in Europe with that type of keyed lock, I always left the key in the lock on the inside, locked or unlocked, so it would be there when I left the room and wanted to lock it from the outside. Maybe Meredith had done that but not locked the door. Or maybe the key was in her purse and he took it when he grabbed the phones and cards and money from her purse. Only his dna was inside Meredith's purse, correct?

Q, but it does benefit someone....it benefits Amanda and RS. Let's say Amanda and RS had talked through what they were going to do the next day....WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO??!!! THey had come up with the staged burglary, making it seem like a burglar had come in. They decide that Amanda needs to have some reason to come back to the cottage in the mroning, to account for any DNA or even blood evidence they might find of hers. That leads to the shower story. Then they think about, what are they going to do after that? Are they going to go off to the other town, are they going to stay and "discover" the burglary...what are they going to do regarding that? How do they want the body to be discovered, and where do they fit it to that? That leads to the realization that they need some "signs" for Amanda to see, so that she can then call Filomena re: the burglary. Filomean comes, "discovers" the body with them.

Now, of course, they are going to think, that necessarily Meredith has to be somewhere "unattainable," where, as Amanda is complaining about possible burglary, that Filomena doesn't just ask her, "why don't you just open Meredith's door and look in her room to see if she's ok?"

It would make no sense for Meredith's door to be unlocked, where Amanda and RS could have just opened the door and checked on her.