An honest question...

[colomom]

I have been following this case some and to be honest I really have no clue as what to think happened to this lovely young child. All I hope for is her her to be found hopefully she will be found alive and can be reunited with her parents and siblings. But if the unthinkable happens and she is found dead I hope they find the killer and it brings this family some closure because this case is so heart-wrenching and some new leads or something need to be found. But my prayers go out to Maddie if she is still alive I bet she is so scared and wanting her parents. And for her parents for having to endure this tragic ordeal.

I think that sums it up very nicely pooky169. :clap: :clap: :clap:

No matter which side of the fence we are on or how we might try to influence each other, ultimately, this is how most of us feel. (IMO)

 

[Rino]

The police are just as legitimate an object of scrutiny as the McCanns. But, approach it with an open mind.

I agree completely.


But...

complete incompetance and lack of professionalism of the PLE working this case. And their part in the malicious lies and smears

is not scutiny, it is a blanket mudsling and in no way aids in the McCanns defense. Were mistakes made, absolutley. Do some here have gut feelings on both sides- yes. But until the truth is found no "one" is more right than another. It is my opinion that many of the McCann defenders are too defensive to be actually open minded to the possabilty of foul play on their part. What I can't understand is why.

I also don't know where anyone has called them b****** or vile names.

 

[daffodil]

I agree completely.


But... is not scutiny, it is a blanket mudsling and in no way aids in the McCanns defense. Were mistakes made, absolutley. Do some here have gut feelings on both sides- yes. But until the truth is found no "one" is more right than another. It is my opinion that many of the McCann defenders are too defensive to be actually open minded to the possabilty of foul play on their part. What I can't understand is why.

I also don't know where anyone has called them b****** or vile names.

I will try to find the post.

 

[Barnaby]

^^^^^^
I have never seen the word b******* used here?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Isn't this a double standard?

Someone is wrong for what you consider an unfair attack on the McCanns but you feel free to crucify the police

Personally I think mistakes were made by the police and the McCanns.

 

[SleuthMom]

Personally I think mistakes were made by the police and the McCanns.

I agree.

 

[SleuthMom]

^^^^^^
I have never seen the word b******* used here?

Me neither.

 

[daffodil]

Isn't this a double standard?

Someone is wrong for what you consider an unfair attack on the McCanns but you feel free to crucify the police

YES!! The Police are not emotionally involved.

 

[colomom]

YES!! The Police are not emotionally involved.

Daffodil, please understand my question, it is not an attack...

How do you know that??

According to the detective at Mertado 3 Mr. Marco:

(from: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=74055&in_page_id=34)

"I bought some dolls at the airport for Madeleine. Unfortunately the lead was false. But I have kept those dolls in my house and will bring them in my suitcase on the day that I find Madeleine," he said.

Sounds emotionally involved to me.......I know he is not police but, even the Baby Grace detectives are saying they are emotionally involved. It is logical that the PJ might be also.

 

[daffodil]

Daffodil, please understand my question, it is not an attack...

How do you know that??

According to the detective at Mertado 3 Mr. Marco:

(from: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=74055&in_page_id=34)

"I bought some dolls at the airport for Madeleine. Unfortunately the lead was false. But I have kept those dolls in my house and will bring them in my suitcase on the day that I find Madeleine," he said.

Sounds emotionally involved to me.......I know he is not police but, even the Baby Grace detectives are saying they are emotionally involved. It is logical that the PJ might be also.

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

 

[colomom]

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her, who rejoiced at her arrival. Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

Again....how do you know that?

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=74055&in_page_id=34

"Speaking about Madeleine's upbringing, Kate, a 39-year-old GP, told Portugal's Flash! magazine: "She cried practically for 18 hours a day. I had to permanently carry her around."

Sounds like a very difficult beginning, one would need to emotionally detach in order to remain sane (IMHO, of course).

 

[Texana]

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

Sorry, Daffodil, I must disagree. Some people who take jobs as policemen, social workers, teachers , doctors, nurses, and other similar professions are able to disengage and not become too emotionally involved.

Others become just as passionately involved and emotional about the welfare of the children they treat/help as the parents. Some become more involved in the welfare of a child than the parents.

I can tell you as a teacher, I struggle sometimes to disengage from the welfare of a child I teach--losing sleep, etc, That is on a relatively minor scale compared to the life/death of a child.

If you think a detective or anyone else whose job involves the well being of children cannot be as involved--if not often more--than the parents--than you do not understand entirely the motivation of the people in these professions.

 

[Tuba]

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

In televised interviews some months ago, Kate McCann said that Madeleine suffered from colic as a newborn & cried for sometimes 18 hours in one day. She said the way she handled this was to carry Madeleine with her all day long and that this had really created a bond of closeness between them. I nursed mine and my daughter also had colic, so I can relate.

 

[colomom]

In televised interviews some months ago, Kate McCann said that Madeleine suffered from colic as a newborn & cried for sometimes 18 hours in one day. She said the way she handled this was to carry Madeleine with her all day long and that this had really created a bond of closeness between them. I nursed mine and my daughter also had colic, so I can relate.

I have read other views of the "bonding" issues in connection to colic:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_n83/ai_19310810

"However, new studies show that colic can have a negative long-term effect on the relationship between parents and their children. For instance, I noticed that after a while I simply didn't hear Nick's crying anymore; I was shutting down. Had his colic lasted for months, tuning Nick out would have been a hard habit for me to break. In general, overwhelmed mothers of colicky children are at risk to wean their children earlier and have poorer mother-infant interaction and infant bonding."

Do you have a link to her statement regarding bonding with Madeleine?

 

[Texana]

Here's the comment from Kate about bonding and colic:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2473974.ece

Frankly, I do wonder (having had two children with "colic" myself) how having a more difficult infant leads to greater bonding.

It can obviously go the other way as well.

 

[Desertpea]

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

Exactly Daffodil

Madeleine wasn't LE's child, she was Kate and Gerrys child and IMO noone is more emotionally involved than them.

 

[Desertpea]

I would like to ask an honest question, it is NOT meant to look for contention so please everyone be kind with each other.

Upon reading thread after thread and the different positions each of us have about what happened to Maddie, my perception is that most posters who believe the parents are the ones involved in Maddie's disappearance , even though they feel very strong about it they STILL can analyze, comment and discuss about the possibility of a pedo ring kidnapping Maddie EVEN if most of us do not believe in that possibility but we can still discuss it.

By the other hand, why those who believe they are innocent cannot even discuss the possibility of the parents being involved? I have the impression (by reading the messages posted here) that is non-existence (in their eyes) that this possibility can be real.

Hi SleuthMom

I am one of the few here who don't think the parents had anything to do with their daughters disappearence.

I have seen just the opposite of what you have described, I find that most posters here are Mums and therefore can't get past the fact that Kate left her kids alone that night as that is incomprehensible in alot of peoples minds.
Mine also I have no idea what Kate (as the Mum) was thinking leaving her kids alone each night especially when the sitter service was available, that will never make any sense to me.
But everyones standards are different and just because the McCanns standards are different than mine that doesn't mean they killed Maddie accidently or otherwise.

I havent found anyone here who thinks the parents are guilty to be able to disscuss any other options, posters who are on the fence can but posters who have already made their mind up definetly do not want to entertain the idea that maybe someone else was responsible for Maddies disappearence.

 

[ThoughtFox]

They cannot have the same emotions invested as the McCanns who went through IVF to get Madeleine,who waited 9 months for her,who rejoiced at her arrival.Being emotionally involved has many connotations IMO.

daffodil: You are entitled to that opinion, but I disagree. The police are individuals with families and most of them probably have children or grandchildren, and want to help Maddie. No one would be happier than they would be if they could find her, I'm sure of it.

 

[txsvicki]

I absolutely agree. There are posters who take very seriously any statement or questioning that isn't their thought process, and several posters appear as if they are almost seeking a verbal confrontation. I, too, tread lightly and have often deleted statements I was about to post to avoid problems.

That is exactly why that there is really not that much actual discussion going on. It's all posts defending posts and on and on in every thread.

 

[april4sky]

A source for this admission would be helpful, please. I do recall reading that the PJ were very frustrated with the secrecy laws which have made it difficult to defend themselves from some of the attacks. Leaking informaton to the press may be standard practice as a way around the legal muzzle. Just a guess...

I find it very difficult to believe that the British detectives and police that have been assisting the PJ with this case have not come out and expressed these types of concerns. In fact they all seem to be working quietly and all the "lies and smears" on both sides, are coming from the media in both countries.

British body-finding expert sent to help Madeleine detectives
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491124&in_page_id=1770

"They are believed to have been part of a wider British police team helping with the case."

Why would the current head of the investigation "consult" with a "suspect"??

Madeleine McCann police 'consult sacked chief'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/01/wmaddy101.xml

I think the PJ/British LE team have information we have no idea about. I think it is unfair to label them "incompetent" without more information on how they have conducted the investigation.

Chief Madeleine detective charged over 'beating' of suspect in another missing girl case.

Also shows a picture of the "beaten" missing childs mother.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=461111&in_page_id=1770

Portugal's top police officer has reportedly confessed that his officers did leak information on the Madeleine McCann case to the press.

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria, told top Spanish daily El Pais: "There have certainly been leaks but less than what it seems.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=488887&in_page_id=1811

The leaks were admitted to a few times and posted here. I'm sure if you go back you will find more.

I don't believe the PLE are frustrated with the secrecy laws.
It works for them. They have used this law to gag "suspects" while abusing it themselves.

The smears and the "rogue" cops are only part of why I believe they have been incompetent in this case.
There is also..Not securing the crime scene, and so contaminating any DNA. The same goes for the car, including Murats. They drove both instead of protecting "potential evidence". They even crashed Murats car!!

I think they were way out of their depth with this case and wouldn't have blamed them if they had gone about it professionally. Or accepted the help offered which they clearly needed. They wouldn't accept that help from the British police for many weeks.
Madeleine may have paid the price for that.

I think this is way beyond mistakes but they do seem to be get a free pass no matter what.
Hopefully the new man will make the difference.

As I have said before I agree with everyone that the children should not have been left alone.

Having said that I don't know if the McCanns are guilty of harming Madeleine. I don't believe so at this point because I have seen no evidence that they did.

All the rumours so far are exactly that and have led to nothing.