Annie and Raymond's communication, Text

[PatientOne]

Hi everyone! Texting vs. other means of communication doesn't seem to be significant to me under the circumstances.

However, are thorough forensic investigations of any PCs used by perps routinely done? Besides it being worth knowing if Annie was the rare recipient of undue attention regarding lab protocol, and of course any personal communications would be of interest, will investigators be able to determine if he visited or more importantly frequented websites featuring HER (personal/social sites as well as academic/professional sites)?

Has it been determined yet if RC actively expresses himself on the Internet, or is it his gf or other people who've posted photos, info, etc? It's been thought here that his MySpace page could've been a prank. Has the extent to which he even uses the Internet been revealed, other than the professional email/text exchanges he's had with Annie? Use of *advertiser censored* has been mentioned -- is this a fact?

Since I've never taken much interest in murder before I don't have a good sense of routine procedures, like seasoned sleuths here!

 

[Labrat]

I am going to bring one of my previous posts over to this thread.-

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/accused...8602492&page=2[/QUOTE

Quote:
Sources tell ABC News there were e-mails or text messages between Clark and Le regarding the cleanliness of the lab. Clark's job included cleaning the mice cages in the lab, and in his email to Le he complained that she had left the cages dirty, sources said.

I did some sleuthing today. I had posted earlier that I was a little perplexed that if he had concerns why he didn't go to his supervisor. I thought it a little puzzling that he had told her to come over immediately.

So I went and asked one of the room techs! Duh. I did confirm that my understanding was correct. Speak to the person if you are comfortable with it, or report it to your supervisor. multiple infractions- the supervisor handles it. I had been puzzled about why he was so involved.

So I asked the tech if there was any situation where he would call me up and tell me I had to meet him immediately about dirty cages. It turns out there is! I wasn't aware of this because it doesn't apply to me.

There are special cards you can put on the cages to let the tech know that you do not want them tampering with the cage- that you will take care of it yourself - you are required to put your contact number on these cards. The reasons for this are things such as medicated water bottles, special feed, recovery from surgery, pregnant mice, any case in which you do not want the mice to go through the regular changing schedule.

If the cages are dirty (ammonia build-up) flooded from a bad water bottle, out of food or water, or the mice appear to be in extreme physical distress, the animal technician is REQUIRED to call the investigator to come and correct the situation immediately as the health of the mice cannot be compromised. If the investigator can not be found or refuses to come, the technician can then correct the problem themself.

So it could very well be that he was not being overly controlling about the protocols, or using an excuse to get her over there.

I can not say that this was absolutely the case there- but the possibility that it could be the case clears some things up for me.
__________________
Character is destiny

 

[SuziQ]

I agree, he had Annie's number and she accepted is text.
Only my close associates and relatives have my number.
My employees always knew how to get me on my cell.
I only accept text from those I know.......
IMO, he did call about mice, she was going to leave for her wedding.
He prob left her believe he wanted instructions on what to do while she was gone.
When she started in as the boss and him the janitor (not lover) mode, he lost it.
IMO allot of men and women think if you say "hi" you love them.............
I don't think Annie thought him anything but a guy that takes care of her mice.
He though thought of her as a love interest and when rejected or told what to do, he could not accept it at all.
As far as dirty cages......well, that was HS job to clean them and not Annie's.
He was a nobody and that hurt his ego!

And in some cases people can only use their cell phone for business and only business related. Some people use their phones for both business and personal use. It depends on who's footing the bill and what restrictions they place on the phone.

My phone is set up to accept texts from anyone who has my phone number. I prefer that. On any given day I might send and receive a dozen texts msgs, and only one phone call.

I prefer texts because if I'm out in public other people can't listen in. I'm also not being rude to subjecting them to my phone call.

 

[MLE]

Use of *advertiser censored* has been mentioned -- is this a fact?

It likely is. I would bet that 99% of males look at some amount of *advertiser censored*. I only look at free *advertiser censored* and I'm sure there are other guys who only look at the free stuff too. Yet, the *advertiser censored* industry earns a truly enormous amount of revenue.

 

[TravelingBug]

I'd also think in a field where we KNOW AL and others were dividing time between at least two primary locations (office and lab area, nevermind classrooms, etc.) I would think it's virtually necessary for people to have cells they use to communicate with.

Needing to catch people when they're in another facility, and not necessarily even only in just one or two, when you need to be able to reach someone, it'd seem the easiest method.

Perhaps he's often running around moving animals between researchers and labs and place they're typically kept, you'd think if someone was starting their work (or finishing up for the day) and it wasn't just "start/end of the day," that they'd perhaps call someone like RC to get/return animals, etc. or deal with problems, etc.

I don't know protocol, but I don't find it at all surprising that at least HE would be on call - to some degree, and that AL had cause to contact him for needs (or whatever) in the lab and simply used her phone so he could be found easily, etc.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

In RC's opinion, her mice were distressed in some way, he decided to call her on it, she came over to meet with him and he ended up killing her. that's what i think.

 

[wanttohelp]

And in some cases people can only use their cell phone for business and only business related. Some people use their phones for both business and personal use. It depends on who's footing the bill and what restrictions they place on the phone.

My phone is set up to accept texts from anyone who has my phone number. I prefer that. On any given day I might send and receive a dozen texts msgs, and only one phone call.

I prefer texts because if I'm out in public other people can't listen in. I'm also not being rude to subjecting them to my phone call.

I agree now days people text alot, even for business. But do you have any type of relationship with coworkers?

I think its completely normal that the department would have her number as well.

IMO though you don't use text to communicate unless there is some familiarity with the person. How would you know who the message was from? Most likely there would be familiarity with the number or name, or the signature would be something like
raymond, from the lab, im working on the cage......

 

[sttct]

My husband is a store manager, his coworkers (not lower level) text him frequently about work related issues or heads up. Apparently its a growing trend in business to communicate via text.

 

[babycat]

I often use text to communicate, too, especially if I do not know if the person will be in a class. He might have known Annie was a TA, but didn't know her schedule, and texted her in case she couldn't answer her phone. Or maybe Annie had specifically written that text messaging was her preferred means of communication regarding lab matters. He might have had to contact her before.

What I'd like to know is if he said something in the text like "Hey, this is Ray, from the lab" or if he just texted her the message without including who he was. Even if his name/number was stored in her phone (which would automatically tell who the text was from) he would probably include his name, to make sure she knew who was texting from an unfamiliar number. In my opinion, if you know someone mostly on a professional level, you'd probably still state who you were in the text message.

But obviously that's just my opinion. A lot of factors could influence why he texted, but I don't think it necessarily illustrates a personal or more intimate relationship.

eta: or maybe he sent it via email and she had a smart phone? My emails show up looking kind of like text messages on my blackberry.

 

[Labrat]

I'd also think in a field where we KNOW AL and others were dividing time between at least two primary locations (office and lab area, nevermind classrooms, etc.) I would think it's virtually necessary for people to have cells they use to communicate with.

Needing to catch people when they're in another facility, and not necessarily even only in just one or two, when you need to be able to reach someone, it'd seem the easiest method.

Perhaps he's often running around moving animals between researchers and labs and place they're typically kept, you'd think if someone was starting their work (or finishing up for the day) and it wasn't just "start/end of the day," that they'd perhaps call someone like RC to get/return animals, etc. or deal with problems, etc.

I don't know protocol, but I don't find it at all surprising that at least HE would be on call - to some degree, and that AL had cause to contact him for needs (or whatever) in the lab and simply used her phone so he could be found easily, etc.

I have the cell phone numbers of all the researchers I do work for- and they have mine. Neither they or I are near an office phone all day.

 

[Waddles]

Hi everyone! Texting vs. other means of communication doesn't seem to be significant to me under the circumstances.

However, are thorough forensic investigations of any PCs used by perps routinely done? Besides it being worth knowing if Annie was the rare recipient of undue attention regarding lab protocol, and of course any personal communications would be of interest, will investigators be able to determine if he visited or more importantly frequented websites featuring HER (personal/social sites as well as academic/professional sites)?

Has it been determined yet if RC actively expresses himself on the Internet, or is it his gf or other people who've posted photos, info, etc? It's been thought here that his MySpace page could've been a prank. Has the extent to which he even uses the Internet been revealed, other than the professional email/text exchanges he's had with Annie? Use of *advertiser censored* has been mentioned -- is this a fact?

Since I've never taken much interest in murder before I don't have a good sense of routine procedures, like seasoned sleuths here!

True-do we know if he had any internet profiles for real? Maybe he didn't really have any close friends either -maybe just social on the surface-appear to be "nice" (as some have stated) on the surface, good team mate in sports but no one he's really close to?
OT Unlike many people I strongly disagree that generally speaking ponography has anything to do with a person having a deviant personality JMO

 

[Waddles]

I often use text to communicate, too, especially if I do not know if the person will be in a class. He might have known Annie was a TA, but didn't know her schedule, and texted her in case she couldn't answer her phone. Or maybe Annie had specifically written that text messaging was her preferred means of communication regarding lab matters. He might have had to contact her before.

What I'd like to know is if he said something in the text like "Hey, this is Ray, from the lab" or if he just texted her the message without including who he was. Even if his name/number was stored in her phone (which would automatically tell who the text was from) he would probably include his name, to make sure she knew who was texting from an unfamiliar number. In my opinion, if you know someone mostly on a professional level, you'd probably still state who you were in the text message.

But obviously that's just my opinion. A lot of factors could influence why he texted, but I don't think it necessarily illustrates a personal or more intimate relationship.

eta: or maybe he sent it via email and she had a smart phone? My emails show up looking kind of like text messages on my blackberry.

I agree with you word for word, texts are often more appropriate for many reasons-if a person might be in a meeting, class, not awake yet etc and a phone call can be more imposing sometimes. Does anyone know if we're likely to get any more info on the text message email communication or is sealed sealed?

 

[Waddles]

In RC's opinion, her mice were distressed in some way, he decided to call her on it, she came over to meet with him and he ended up killing her. that's what i think.

That's exactly what I think too but we're trying to fill in the blanks

 

[Waddles]

I have the cell phone numbers of all the researchers I do work for- and they have mine. Neither they or I are near an office phone all day.

do you text them?

 

[6angels]

most know my husband is a LE officer. most all the officers use Text when they want to ask another officer something. He knows all them but not all of them on a personal level.

 

[Labrat]

do you text them?

Yes, I much prefer it. If I'm in a lab or mouse room, often times the reception is not very good or the area is loud because of equipment running and I have trouble hearing what someone is saying over the phone.

Also, if they are in a lab meeting or class, they can't talk on the phone, but they can discretely answer a text.

 

[masscph]

It likely is. I would bet that 99% of males look at some amount of *advertiser censored*. I only look at free *advertiser censored* and I'm sure there are other guys who only look at the free stuff too. Yet, the *advertiser censored* industry earns a truly enormous amount of revenue.

Agree, 99% of males watch *advertiser censored* and the remainding 1% is lying - its as simple as that. And for a guy of 24 years of age - 120%.

But it would be interesting to get his email-address, his youtube-account, if he had blogs going on, abit sad that we havent been able to track his digital fingerprints on the net, other than the obvious myspace-account.

 

[ScorpRising]

Just want to share that texting is such an acceptable form of communication anymore that I (31) text my boss to let her know if I will be off or late.

It's so much easier than actually talking to the person. I text people that I have never had a phone conversation with...

 

[wicket]

I do know that our facility is visited off and on by the Governmental section dealing with live animals in labs. It is usually a surprise visit and we must comply especially if federal or state monies are involved. They are interested in conditions, cleanliness, ventilation, etc. One can be cited until corrections are made.

I thought someone mentioned that many of RC's relatives worked in the lab areas - could a relative of his actually be his boss? So, RC felt he had no need to get permission to demand (possibly) Annie's attention to detail.

Plus, since she was leaving for her wedding, she would probably want to meet with RC to discuss the research mice and their care over a few days. She was concerned no doubt that they be kept on schedule until her return.

 

[OHdoc]

I am going to bring one of my previous posts over to this thread.-

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/accused...8602492&page=2[/QUOTE

Quote:
Sources tell ABC News there were e-mails or text messages between Clark and Le regarding the cleanliness of the lab. Clark's job included cleaning the mice cages in the lab, and in his email to Le he complained that she had left the cages dirty, sources said.

I did some sleuthing today. I had posted earlier that I was a little perplexed that if he had concerns why he didn't go to his supervisor. I thought it a little puzzling that he had told her to come over immediately.

So I went and asked one of the room techs! Duh. I did confirm that my understanding was correct. Speak to the person if you are comfortable with it, or report it to your supervisor. multiple infractions- the supervisor handles it. I had been puzzled about why he was so involved.

So I asked the tech if there was any situation where he would call me up and tell me I had to meet him immediately about dirty cages. It turns out there is! I wasn't aware of this because it doesn't apply to me.

There are special cards you can put on the cages to let the tech know that you do not want them tampering with the cage- that you will take care of it yourself - you are required to put your contact number on these cards. The reasons for this are things such as medicated water bottles, special feed, recovery from surgery, pregnant mice, any case in which you do not want the mice to go through the regular changing schedule.

If the cages are dirty (ammonia build-up) flooded from a bad water bottle, out of food or water, or the mice appear to be in extreme physical distress, the animal technician is REQUIRED to call the investigator to come and correct the situation immediately as the health of the mice cannot be compromised. If the investigator can not be found or refuses to come, the technician can then correct the problem themself.

So it could very well be that he was not being overly controlling about the protocols, or using an excuse to get her over there.

I can not say that this was absolutely the case there- but the possibility that it could be the case clears some things up for me.
__________________
Character is destiny

Hi All,
Sorry - did not take the time to review all of the messages since I was on last (doesn't anyone on here sleep!).

In my experience, this arrangement, as Labrat describes above, is not uncommon and one that I have used myself. These cage cards are an important means of communication between the researcher and the animal/room techs (such as RC) and/or animal health techs. If you ask the techs not to feed the mice or change the cages, a vigilant room tech will check the cages to ensure that the investigator is keeping up with the care of the mice. Some techs are not so vigilant and sees the card as permission to ignore these cages. As we know, RC was quite vigilant about his "territory" - a good trait for an animal tech. The problem was the way in which he interacted with the researchers.