Any Elisa Updates At All?

[Conductor71]

I wish we could confirm more detail. Even if it's not easy to open/close, I've always wondered about the possibility that it was closed by a non-involved person in the days following the death, simply because they noticed the hatch was up and didn't think it should be.

Just a possibility I'm throwing out there, because the activity on the roof in general throws a lot of question into almost everything about this case.

Personally, I have been erring on the side of self-caused death due to either psychosis, drugs/intoxication, intentional suicide, or a combination. But I've definitely started to slide over to an equal possibility of foul play. There is a lack of information, and the totality of info we have leads in an ambiguous direction :twocents: Frustrating!

<snipped for space>

I had that thought too about the hatch, but it was designed (or should have been to meet bare minimum codes) so the lid would have to be off the hinges completely. It only opens completely, so no halfway opening to slam down and trap anyone. Further, it would be unlikely the lid would be left off because it is potable water, so the lid should some what form an air tight seal it order to keep out runoff and things like bird droppings. I decided to believe Andrew Smith, the LAPD media officer, when he said the lids were closed but not locked.

I know these lack of consistent facts is maddening. That is why I thought it strange that someone in the media did not try to at least clear up the misinformation floating around.

The only thing we have to go on with foul play as looking at the big picture mainly in how we both have noted media treatment of the case. Plus, I just learned that the LAPD told their CBC liaison when EL reported missing that they "had evidence that EL may be hurt or in danger". Sure this could mean she may have harmed herself but wouldn't we have heard that they think it more likely an accident by now? Not to mention a close friend of EL's has been quite open on Tumblr stating the police know of all her social media accounts. Friends think that in no way was this an accident and that given her personality she was most likely drugged.

The police, IMO, looked at foul play because they know that physically it would have been near impossible for EL to get herself into the tank. This is why they didn't pay a lot of attention to them when they first had dogs on the roof. I also heard in Canadian media that EL would have had to seek out a ladder and carry it over to the tank; it was not normally there. This all just seems like a lot for anyone to go through to hide or find water. EL would need a lot of pre-knowledge to make all this work. If she were suffering a psychotic break too many things would have to been in place: the door alarm did not sound; the ladder would have been at the tank, and the lid off for me to see this as possible.

This all just my opinion but based on looking at the totality, I am still thinking it is homicide.

 

[jetsetsam]

And if she was looking for water to put herself into, why would she go to the roof at all, if she hadn't been there before?

EL was from Vancouver, where water pressure and the availability of water is not as big a deal as it is in LA. We don't usually have water tanks on the roofs of buildings in Vancouver, old or new.

EL's experience of old buildings was the Bay building in downtown Vancouver, where she worked over Christmas. Take a look on Google; it doesn't have water tanks that are visible on the roof, even is she was ever up there. There a re condensers, but no visible and accessible tanks.

So its not just the alarmed door, or climbing up an exterior fire escape, or finding a ladder to climb up to the top of the tank, or opening a secured lid, it's really why would she go up to the roof to find a water tank to put herself into, when she wouldn't have know a water tank was there in the first place.

Oh wait.

The front desk clerk must have told her there was a tank on the roof, and how to deactivate the door alarm, and where the ladder was, and how to open the lid.

Or a hotel guest.

or a rooftop graffiti artist.

EL climbing into the rooftop water tank due to a psychotic break is dependent on such a sequence of events and prior knowledge that the scenario is beyond implausible.

 

[noodled1]

And if she was looking for water to put herself into, why would she go to the roof at all, if she hadn't been there before?

EL was from Vancouver, where water pressure and the availability of water is not as big a deal as it is in LA. We don't usually have water tanks on the roofs of buildings in Vancouver, old or new.

EL's experience of old buildings was the Bay building in downtown Vancouver, where she worked over Christmas. Take a look on Google; it doesn't have water tanks that are visible on the roof, even is she was ever up there. There a re condensers, but no visible and accessible tanks.

So its not just the alarmed door, or climbing up an exterior fire escape, or finding a ladder to climb up to the top of the tank, or opening a secured lid, it's really why would she go up to the roof to find a water tank to put herself into, when she wouldn't have know a water tank was there in the first place.

Oh wait.

The front desk clerk must have told her there was a tank on the roof, and how to deactivate the door alarm, and where the ladder was, and how to open the lid.

Or a hotel guest.

or a rooftop graffiti artist.

EL climbing into the rooftop water tank due to a psychotic break is dependent on such a sequence of events and prior knowledge that the scenario is beyond implausible.

There has been nothing normal about her death. Don't make the mistake of throwing out a theory because it doesn't fall into what you consider normal behavior

 

[LittleWing]

True Noodled1, water tanks could be something she learned about just in the same ways any of us learn about anything, especially in this age of technology and information a few taps and clicks away.

In addition, psychotic breaks are just that - psychotic. They don't make sense. So any "it just doesn't make sense that EL..." Statements could very well be nullified by the sheer fact that psychotic breaks make people do completely nonsensical things that make sense ONLY to them. It's been stated on this Forum many times by people with experience with the mentally Ill that these things just don't make sense to us because, well, we have our normal capacities. So of course.

That being said its good we play devil's advocate for both sides since we just don't know enough to go in either direction at this point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[four_seasons]

latest news from Chinese Media:
http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/04-10/4716555.shtml

it might take another month for toxicology test to come back because they don't have enough resources. This is according to LA coroner: July Wang.

 

[findinganatta]

latest news from Chinese Media:
http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/04-10/4716555.shtml

it might take another month for toxicology test to come back because they don't have enough resources. This is according to LA coroner: July Wang.

Ugh. I was afraid of that. It can take a number of specialized labs to perform a full test for all kinds of chemicals, and there aren't many of them out there that are capable of doing a detailed test. I'm not sure if degree of decomposition would make it an even more specialized task that even less labs can do, but it wouldn't be surprising.

So... another month of endless online speculation : / I'm just holding on to the tiny hope that some helpful new information will come out either from LE or (more likely) some other source that the media becomes aware of.

 

[Ghostwheel]

And if she was looking for water to put herself into, why would she go to the roof at all, if she hadn't been there before?

EL was from Vancouver, where water pressure and the availability of water is not as big a deal as it is in LA. We don't usually have water tanks on the roofs of buildings in Vancouver, old or new.

EL's experience of old buildings was the Bay building in downtown Vancouver, where she worked over Christmas. Take a look on Google; it doesn't have water tanks that are visible on the roof, even is she was ever up there. There a re condensers, but no visible and accessible tanks.

So its not just the alarmed door, or climbing up an exterior fire escape, or finding a ladder to climb up to the top of the tank, or opening a secured lid, it's really why would she go up to the roof to find a water tank to put herself into, when she wouldn't have know a water tank was there in the first place.

Oh wait.

The front desk clerk must have told her there was a tank on the roof, and how to deactivate the door alarm, and where the ladder was, and how to open the lid.

Or a hotel guest.

or a rooftop graffiti artist.

EL climbing into the rooftop water tank due to a psychotic break is dependent on such a sequence of events and prior knowledge that the scenario is beyond implausible.

Water tanks on roofs of hotels is not that common in LA, either. Which might have been a reason why she would have gone up to look, if anyone was trying to get her to the roof. Just a thought. Go to see something unusual.

 

[findinganatta]

Water tanks on roofs of hotels is not that common in LA, either. Which might have been a reason why she would have gone up to look, if anyone was trying to get her to the roof. Just a thought. Go to see something unusual.

The water tanks do cut an interesting shape even from street level, and are quite intriguing from an old-timey architecture/design perspective.

 

[margarita25]

latest news from Chinese Media:
http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/04-10/4716555.shtml

it might take another month for toxicology test to come back because they don't have enough resources. This is according to LA coroner: July Wang.

Thanks for the update. Ugh. Talk about Baffling Unsolved Mysteries. Poor Elisa. What on earth happened!
From the above article:

"&#20013;&#26032;&#32593;4&#26376;10&#26085;&#30005; &#25454;&#32654;&#22269;&#12298;&#20392;&#25253;&#12299;&#25253;&#36947;&#65292;&#21152;&#25343;&#21326;&#35028;&#22899;&#22823;&#23398;&#29983;&#34013;&#21487;&#20799;&#27931;&#26441;&#30710;&#37202;&#24215;&#31163;&#22855;&#36523;&#20129;&#26696;&#26696;&#21457;&#33267;&#20170;&#24050;&#26377;&#20004;&#20010;&#26376;&#65292;&#20294;&#27969;&#36893;&#30340;&#26102;&#38388;&#24182;&#26410;&#20943;&#24369;&#20154;&#20204;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#26696;&#20214;&#30340;&#20851;&#27880;&#65292;&#22823;&#23478;&#20173;&#26399;&#24453;&#26089;&#26085;&#30475;&#21040;&#39564;&#23608;&#25253;&#21578;&#12290;&#22312;&#23186;&#20307;&#30340;&#19968;&#20877;&#36861;&#38382;&#19979;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#27931;&#26441;&#30710;&#21439;&#35686;&#23616;&#39564;&#23608;&#21150;&#21326;&#35028;&#39564;&#23608;&#23448;&#29579;&#26417;&#21033;(July Wang)9&#26085;&#21578;&#35785;&#20392;&#25253;&#35760;&#32773;&#65292;&#34013;&#21487;&#20799;&#30340;&#23608;&#26816;&#25253;&#21578;&#36824;&#38656;&#19968;&#20010;&#26376;&#30340;&#26102;&#38388;&#25165;&#33021;&#20986;&#26469;&#12290;"

I have absolutely no idea what that says but that felt really cool to post in Chinese!!!

 

[jetsetsam]

"Beijing, April 10 United States the newspaper reported, Canadian Chinese female students blue child Los Angeles died mysteriously two months have passed since the incident, but the passage of time does not diminish people's concern in this case, we look forward to see the early autopsy reports. Under the media repeatedly asked, United States Chinese Wang Zhuli the coroner of the Los Angeles County coroner's Office (July Wang) 9th told newspaper reporters that blue child autopsy report also required one month time to come out."

 

[Ghostwheel]

Thanks for the update. Ugh. Talk about Baffling Unsolved Mysteries. Poor Elisa. What on earth happened!
From the above article:

"&#20013;&#26032;&#32593;4&#26376;10&#26085;&#30005; &#25454;&#32654;&#22269;&#12298;&#20392;&#25253;&#12299;&#25253;&#36947;&#65292;&#21152;&#25343;&#21326;&#35028;&#22899;&#22823;&#23398;&#29983;&#34013;&#21487;&#20799;&#27931;&#26441;&#30710;&#37202;&#24215;&#31163;&#22855;&#36523;&#20129;&#26696;&#26696;&#21457;&#33267;&#20170;&#24050;&#26377;&#20004;&#20010;&#26376;&#65292;&#20294;&#27969;&#36893;&#30340;&#26102;&#38388;&#24182;&#26410;&#20943;&#24369;&#20154;&#20204;&#23545;&#36825;&#19968;&#26696;&#20214;&#30340;&#20851;&#27880;&#65292;&#22823;&#23478;&#20173;&#26399;&#24453;&#26089;&#26085;&#30475;&#21040;&#39564;&#23608;&#25253;&#21578;&#12290;&#22312;&#23186;&#20307;&#30340;&#19968;&#20877;&#36861;&#38382;&#19979;&#65292;&#32654;&#22269;&#27931;&#26441;&#30710;&#21439;&#35686;&#23616;&#39564;&#23608;&#21150;&#21326;&#35028;&#39564;&#23608;&#23448;&#29579;&#26417;&#21033;(July Wang)9&#26085;&#21578;&#35785;&#20392;&#25253;&#35760;&#32773;&#65292;&#34013;&#21487;&#20799;&#30340;&#23608;&#26816;&#25253;&#21578;&#36824;&#38656;&#19968;&#20010;&#26376;&#30340;&#26102;&#38388;&#25165;&#33021;&#20986;&#26469;&#12290;"

I have absolutely no idea what that says but that felt really cool to post in Chinese!!!

Thank you, you just made my night.

ETA: It says: BEIJING, April 10 - According to the United States "newspaper" reported, the Canadian-Chinese female students blue children Hotel Los Angeles bizarre case of death of the incident has been two months, but the passage of time has not diminished the perception of thethe attention of the case, we can still look forward to see the autopsy report. Repeated questioning of the media, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department autopsy do ethnic Chinese the coroner king Julius (July), told the China Press reporter and blue can be child's autopsy report needed a month's time to come out.

Don't blame me, that was Google translator

 

[findinganatta]

I agree with much of what Conductor said, but Jetsetsam, I must disagree that the psychosis scenario is "beyond implausible." Littlewing makes an excellent point that I've tried to make in the past with less success: psychosis is not logical by any measure that the average person could necessarily understand.

I often read people responding to the psychosis theory with interpretations involving her hiding from imagined stalkers or seeking out water for some 'crazy' reason. But, while it's possible for motives like that to exist due to mental illness, I think the kind of psychosis that many of us see in the elevator video (and the kind that could likely be related to her previous behavior/writings) is not just a delusional experience that follows its own linear internal logic. While that kind of state might possibly explain her getting into the cistern, my psychosis-related theories have been more based on a highly-disorganized mental state that doesn't involve any particular logic at all.

If psychosis was involved, I don't necessarily think she thought she was running from anyone, or that she needed to get to water, or anything like that. I think it's possible she was simply acting out of a form of insanity that would be impossible for any of us to interpret, or even for her to interpret her more normal states of mind. She may have found her way to the roof, whether she had been there before or she stumbled upon the stairwell leading to it, and became motivated to enter the cistern after seeing them up there. Certainly people in states of psychosis have done equally scary and illogical things in the past, such as that Austin girl under drug-related psychosis who crawled into deeply into a building's air duct system (an absolutely terrifying thing to even imagine doing, in my opinion).

Anyway, to understand where some of us are coming from with that theory, you have to remove logic from the equation, and simply look at whether or not it was physically possible, as well as if there was any indication that Elisa might have been predisposed to such a breakdown. I'm not convinced of either of those answers, but I'm definitely open to the possibility.

Another thing to remember is that she was within the age range when the onset of schizophrenia is most likely. And schizophrenic symptoms are often misdiagnosed as other disorders, such as bipolar, especially in the early stages. So it wasn't necessarily psychosis that was related to bipolar manic or depressive states, but could have been a serious schizophrenic episode, which are often related to emotional states and life circumstances. She clearly was going through some emotional disruption according to her blog, in my opinion, and that coupled with being alone and far away from home for the first time could have significantly contributed to a serious episode related to either bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

Also, there is the possibility of schizoaffective disorder, which combines the distinct traits of both disorders, and can also be misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder until the schizophrenic traits begin to emerge clearly.

Just ideas... but mainly I wanted to back up what Littlewing was saying about psychosis not always being logical or explainable. Because I think that point has been overlooked in the conversations relating to this theory, which might have resulted in misunderstanding about how/why we could seriously consider any theory based in EL being responsible for her own death due to a psychotic state.

 

[Jessica222]

My conclusions and what I believed:

1) LAPD will not be able to solve this case.

2) This case will become a Cold Case.

3) Any tests or reports are no longer important, the reason they delayed all these tests due to the fact that LAPD wanted to cool down the heat and discussions of this case before any announcement is being made.

4) Elisa Lam was not suscide. How come she went to a bookstore to buy her family gifts nearby hotel and told the bookstore staff that these books were gifts for her family? It doesn't make sense at all.

5) Elisa Lam was murdered. What on earth could she died naked in the water tank without her personal belongings any where of the roof top? It doesn't make sense at all.

6) The fact is Elisa Lam was murdered by long-staying hotel guests and hotel staff at Cecil LA, these hotel guests are worshipping Satan, for more details, you can refer to a movie called 'Rosemary's Baby', I am sure everyone of us have watched the movie before and I am not going to say any further.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoXLXMbOgiU"]Three Reasons: Rosemary's Baby - YouTube[/ame]

7) Elisa Lam may have minor mental issues, but everyone of us have some, do you agree? Living in a city, society, community and country with lots of stressfullness at work, at school, people relationship, family life, as well as your past, we all have certain degree of mental problems, some people could manage and some people simply failed, however, I believed Elisa Lam was not died because of her mental issues. Elisa Lam was a teenager, she performed exactly what a teenager would do, in school, with friends or through internets. However, Elisa Lam's pleasant character and approachable personality kills her, she traveled alone, young and inexperienced, have minor mental issues which made her weak and be an easy target.

8) LAPD and the long staying residents lived nearby the hotel knew it clear, Cecil Hotel LA has a long history of practise for worshipping Satan and I have heard that it involved hotel staff and management of the Cecil Hotel LA, LAPD would not involved as they know they were dangerous, powerful and very very wealthy.

(Public Illuminati Ritual Revealed!? Crowley-Elisa-Lam (Lamb) 2013)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXIuH-iLoy0"]Public Illuminati Ritual Revealed!? Crowley-Elisa-Lam (Lamb) 2013 - YouTube[/ame]

(Uploaded by: TheScariestMovieEver on 4 March 2013)

McDonna's Illuminati Ritual at Superbowl

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSDqzYUtKms"]MADONNA SUPERBOWL HALFTIME ILLUMINATI RITUAL - YouTube[/ame]

Uploaded by: dodgydodds on 7 Feb 2012

Beyonce billboard performace (illuminati ritual)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcrODBw3kbw"]Beyonce billboard performace (illuminati ritual) - YouTube[/ame]

Uploaded by: RandomVideosMe on 18 July 2012

Whitney Houston Illuminati Sacrifice

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmxJe2IHYQo&feature=fvwp&NR=1"]Whitney Houston Illuminati Sacrifice. - YouTube[/ame]

Uploaded by: 101thedestroyer on 27 Feb 2012

9) It could properly the destiny of Elisa Lam to end her life like this, no matter what she had been through, RIP, Elisa Lam, hope you have a peace in mind in heaven.

10) I know it is very difficult for general public to believe, but this is what I believed.

One last thing, NO Cecil Hotel Staff, Public Relations Staff, Spokeperson or hotel management have given any speech in this case, not a word, everyone keep their mouth shut.

 

[BlueShoe]

The water tanks do cut an interesting shape even from street level, and are quite intriguing from an old-timey architecture/design perspective.

I find this much more probable than the "desperately seeking water" hypothesis. I also think a psychotic episode is possible based on the elevator video. I still find it hard to think she would go through all those difficult steps to get into the tank while in any kind of psychotic break. Although I think it could make it easier for someone to lure her onto the roof, and possibly even into the water tower willingly if there was another person involved.

 

[tapu]

I don't know, Jess... Other than the Rosemary's Baby marketing team, a few Maury Terry devotees, and some Santeria types in and near Mexico, there have not been a lot of devil-worshipping killer gangs in the real world. I have trouble imagining a group getting together, say via Meetup, to congregate in a downtown hotel and kill a Chinese-Canadian girl in such a specific non-devil worshipping way.

 

[Jessica222]

The death of Whitney Elizabeth Houston has some similarities with Elisa Lam:

Part 1:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xH_0w5H9tM"]The Whitney Houston Sacrifice Exposed (1/2) - YouTube[/ame]

Part 2:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpejsEsN8EE"]The Whitney Houston Sacrifice Exposed (2/2) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Conductor71]

If psychosis was involved, I don't necessarily think she thought she was running from anyone, or that she needed to get to water, or anything like that. I think it's possible she was simply acting out of a form of insanity that would be impossible for any of us to interpret, or even for her to interpret her more normal states of mind. She may have found her way to the roof, whether she had been there before or she stumbled upon the stairwell leading to it, and became motivated to enter the cistern after seeing them up there. Certainly people in states of psychosis have done equally scary and illogical things in the past, such as that Austin girl under drug-related psychosis who crawled into deeply into a building's air duct system (an absolutely terrifying thing to even imagine doing, in my opinion).

I only have mentioned seeking a hiding place or needing water in response to statements made here; some by our experts, that EL was reacting to command voices telling her to do these things, if I recall correctly. I think they alluded to paranoia and hiding from what was in her head. <poor paraphrase but that was gist.> As for seeking out water, I believe that was reference to the article by the Ecstasy specialist who said it may make her gravitate to water. Either way, I was only referring to the observations previously made; I did not mean to imply these inner drives applied to every sort of psychotic episode whether organic or drug induced.

I know there is no logic to a state of dissociation, and I accept the idea that EL could have gone to the roof for anything really; we don't know, and at this point it feels like we may never know. It seems to me though that this logic thing goes too far. I agree it definitely means we do not need a reason for EL to be found in a water tank; stranger things have happened I am sure.

This is where I dig my heels in. I just do not see how physically and circumstantially it is possible for EL to have made it into that tank and trapped herself. It presumes too many unlikely things and ignores the judgement of seasoned law enforcement professionals who are eminently more informed to look at the bigger picture whereas we just have a blog and a short video to go on. I think that when they say very bizarre accident it means highly unlikely.

 

[Conductor71]

Certainly people in states of psychosis have done equally scary and illogical things in the past, such as that Austin girl under drug-related psychosis who crawled into deeply into a building's air duct system (an absolutely terrifying thing to even imagine doing, in my opinion).

As for the Austin case, if we are referring to Jamie Minor, maybe I am misreading details or have the wrong person, but I am not sure how it substantiates EL having an organic psychotic break. She was fired from waiting tables at a hotel, witnesses say she was acting erratically, then she disappeared. She was found a month later in heating ducts. Initially Autopsy showed no drugs, but it was found two months later after toxicology report, she had bath salts in her system.

This might support idea that EL was drugged by someone, but I cannot see connection to mental illness. Also, it seems that there was a very real logical intent to her motivation to enter the HVAC system; no logic in using that instead of the elevator and a door, but according to reports she was trying to enter a nearby restaurant to visit a friend. So she had a very lucid intent and even tried conventional means like an alley door first. I honestly think it pretty clear thinking to (and clever) to consider the duct system as an alternate point of entry when clearly she wanted to avoid the front door.

The only thing I see as really off is that the drugs made her feel she was invincible enough to pull it off. Keep in the mind that I used to go cave exploring or spelunking when I was a kid so crawling around like that seems not unusual for someone to conceive of or attempt. She was still easily physically able to enter into the ductwork, and she did not need to thwart alarms, or find a ladder, plus remove a tricky lid to gain access. Had they not had a heatwave at that time putting temps at 115 degrees where she was found she would might have made it. Am I wrong on the details? In essence, it looks like this girl knew what she was doing to a large extent, so I am not getting the EL connection beyond the stretching the limits of what we see as "normal", I do see that is evident in both events. Maybe I am overlooking something?

 

[walklikeacat]

This is according to LA coroner: July Wang.

I think the name of the pathologist is Yulai Wang, he is a Deputy Medical Examiner in LA. LA Coroner got 20 pathologists and he is on of them.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Water tanks on roofs of hotels is not that common in LA, either. Which might have been a reason why she would have gone up to look, if anyone was trying to get her to the roof. Just a thought. Go to see something unusual.

- After reading about " water tanks/cisterns" , a few artists have used them for inspiration,

In 1998 the British artist Rachel Whiteread installed Water Tower on a roof in the Soho neighborhood of New York City. The piece was commissioned by the Public Art Fund and was the artist’s first public sculpture to be conceived and displayed in the United States.

Water Tower is now installed on the rooftop above the Museum of Modern Art’s sculpture garden. The sculpture is a resin cast of the interior of a once-functioning cedar water tower, chosen specifically for the texture this type of wood would impart to the surface.

The translucent resin captures the qualities of the surrounding sky. On a blue day the tower appears blue, but on an overcast day, like the day I visited the museum, the tower is whispery white. On a moonless night it will disappear, but if you catch the water tower on a night when the moon is full, Whiteread’s piece has a luminescent, pearly sheen. At times, the tower seems to be composed entirely of water, as in these images…

http://www.gwarlingo.com/2012/artists-transform-new-york-citys-water-towers-into-works-of-art/

(Just trying to understand why the tank?.... If she did go to the roof on her own....)