Any new news?

[tipper]

I think Patsy saying Help me Jesus is completely congruent to her situation, so to me it's a non-issue no matter what Lin Wood said or didn't say. I think she probably did say it. It doesn't change anything.

Why would VOR's be the only one to carry these voices? Is it not the same generation as Ginsberg's? He didn't pick up additional voices and he is an experienced, highly paid professional.

I think it's entirely possible for people to genuinely believe they hear things they want to hear hidden within noise. Until Aerospace releases their version and verifies it (preferably with cross-examination) I'll continue to wait and see.

 

[Voice of Reason]

IMO their refusal to cooperate is more myth than truth.
VOR , I HAVE read the books, perhaps if you read Douglas', "The Cases that Haunt Us", you will better understand HIS explanation of how he believes in the Ramsey's innocence and the purpose for which he was hired.

sissi,

i wasn't trying to be confrontational on the subject of john douglas. it just sounded like you made an honest mistake in your assessment of what he does. i wasn't sure that you had read the books. my apologies.

for anyone who hasn't read john douglas, please keep in mind that he examines the crime scene, which courtesy of JR, does not really exist. therefore, his reconstruction of how JB's body was found can only be left up to john's description. if JR's involved, he may not have been entirely truthful here. if JR's not involved, his details still may be inaccurate since he just found his daughter's body. john douglas pays attention to detail like no other. unfortunately, a lot of the detail is lost in this case since JR brought the body upstairs and disturbed the crime scene.

due to this, john douglas' assessment is not nearly as accurate as it could be. furthermore, he conceded afterwards that all his information came from team ramsey. it is to be taken with a big fat grain of salt. you will need a lot of water to wash it down...

 

[lawman]

thanks to everyone

i was just trying to clear up some of the events that happened early on after the crime.
after reading through posts on the board i believe bluecrab is very close with his theory.
although i don`t believe anybody other than those in the home were involved.
this was either proven at GJ or the authorities know this is what happened.
simply a family catastrophe where jbr was almost fatally wounded ,then the crime scene was staged ,which of course caused all kinds of confusion, because jbr wasn`t actually dead when the strangulation occured.
then patsy wrote the note possibly in connection with john.


lawman

 

[Kaly]

I disagree with the opinions that the Ramsey's hired attorneys right away, and that they held up the investigation, because they were guilty of something. I think they got the attorneys because they were rich! And John was smart.

If there was a murder in my house and I was wealthy, I would hire attorneys to advise me right away, too. Everyone knows that the parents are always the first suspects. They also saw how the police were so aggressively pursuing the Ramseys. If nothing had been done to intervene, the police would have probably prematurely arrested John and Patsy before they could be sure of a conviction.

BTW, I believe it was an intruder, maybe even a female - jealous from the pageants - and that Patsy looks guilty and does dumb things because she has a mental illness.

 

[BlueCrab]

I disagree with the opinions that the Ramsey's hired attorneys right away, and that they held up the investigation, because they were guilty of something. I think they got the attorneys because they were rich! And John was smart.

If there was a murder in my house and I was wealthy, I would hire attorneys to advise me right away, too. Everyone knows that the parents are always the first suspects. They also saw how the police were so aggressively pursuing the Ramseys. If nothing had been done to intervene, the police would have probably prematurely arrested John and Patsy before they could be sure of a conviction.

BTW, I believe it was an intruder, maybe even a female - jealous from the pageants - and that Patsy looks guilty and does dumb things because she has a mental illness.

Kalypso,

Why then were the Ramseys lying and covering up from day one, apparently to protect Burke? Why would they lie and cover up to protect the identity of an intruder?

 

[little1]

If this is the case, the Ramseys are even dumber than I thought. When your child is found dead in your basement, and there is no evidence of a break-in, you are going to be a suspect, whether you're guilty or not.

As for John Douglas, he is a specialist in examining a crime scene and the victim to make a psychological profile of the criminal. He has researched this by interviewing criminals to see what was going through their minds at the time of the crimes. However, he did not interview John and Patsy to determine if they could have done this. That is not really his line of work. It is true that the profile of the killer he put together does not match John or Patsy. However, he did not have direct access to the crime scene at the time of the accident, so he was not able to offer as accurate of a profile as he usually does. For more on his work, I recommend you check out "Mindhunter".

I want to add about profiling that certain things have come to light proving that profiling is not as accurate as has been implied. We know now, for example, that serial killers DO stop--whichwas impossible by all accounts of most profilers. I used to put stock into what John Douglas' profile said, I do not now. One reason is what you stated above----

 

[Toltec]

Any attorney would let the Ramseys know that they are the number one suspects. The problem I have with this is that if the Ramseys were innocent, then why didn't they clear themselves right away...like the Van Dams and Mark Klaas???

The above mentioned went through the ringer and especially the Van Dams given their lifestyle but they didn't care because they wanted to be cleared so that the police could proceed with the search for their daughter.

If John and Patsy were innocent...lawyers or not...they should have gone along with the interviews so that the police could move on with the investigation. Instead they hid behind their lawyers and I find that despicable and suspect.

 

[tipper]

Any attorney would let the Ramseys know that they are the number one suspects. The problem I have with this is that if the Ramseys were innocent, then why didn't they clear themselves right away...like the Van Dams and Mark Klaas???

The above mentioned went through the ringer and especially the Van Dams given their lifestyle but they didn't care because they wanted to be cleared so that the police could proceed with the search for their daughter.

If John and Patsy were innocent...lawyers or not...they should have gone along with the interviews so that the police could move on with the investigation. Instead they hid behind their lawyers and I find that despicable and suspect.

As I recall one or both of Polly Klaas' friends were treated so badly by LE that they refused to talk with them anymore. Don't forget the inexcusably ham-fisted interrogation Melinda and JAR were subjected to in the first couple of days.

 

[jubie]

Any attorney would let the Ramseys know that they are the number one suspects. The problem I have with this is that if the Ramseys were innocent, then why didn't they clear themselves right away...like the Van Dams and Mark Klaas???

The above mentioned went through the ringer and especially the Van Dams given their lifestyle but they didn't care because they wanted to be cleared so that the police could proceed with the search for their daughter.

If John and Patsy were innocent...lawyers or not...they should have gone along with the interviews so that the police could move on with the investigation. Instead they hid behind their lawyers and I find that despicable and suspect.

The usual response to this is that the ramseys aren't your average family (whoever is?) but rather saw themselves as being 'above' such 'common' places as the police dept and doing such demeaning things as interviews with police...

I agree, now imagine what a family like this would do IF an accident resulted in death to one of their children at their own hands? Call up the cops and lay it all out? NO WAY!! They went into self preservation mode long before that 911 call.


John kept saying how sorry he was to his friends, for what? John told Patsy he "needed her to be strong" at the funeral... why did he 'need' her to be "strong"? Odd choice of words in my opinion. "We'll get through this" or even "Be strong" but John needing Patsy to be strong at a time when a little falling apart would seem a little more expected. These are just a few of many many little quotes and actions that combined paint a very ugly picture.


Again, my opinion.

Jubie

 

[Kaly]

Kalypso,

Why then were the Ramseys lying and covering up from day one, apparently to protect Burke? Why would they lie and cover up to protect the identity of an intruder?

I still think that Burke was just a kid and was incapable of murder at that time. I'm not so sure that the off-the-hook telephone analyses have not been technically disputed quite a bit.

 

[BlueCrab]

I still think that Burke was just a kid and was incapable of murder at that time. I'm not so sure that the off-the-hook telephone analyses have not been technically disputed quite a bit.

Kalypso,

None of us were there, so we don't know for sure if it was an accident or a murder. Nevertheless, in either event a mountain of evidence points in Burke's direction.

And naturally the Ramseys are going to strongly dispute Burke's voice on the 911 call -- that evidence alone proves the Ramseys were lying to protect Burke even while the investigation was still in the starting gate. The Aerospace Corporation's original enhanced final several seconds of that 911 call with Burke's voice on it is safely tucked away by LE, and Keenan can trickily release all of the 911 tapes with nothing discernible on the end of them she wants, it still won't erase Burke's voice on the original 911 tape.