Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[Holdontoyourhat]

It was actually in a book that John had been reading...a staged sexual assault, complete with murder. I think that it was by John Douglas...and...I believe that the book was true. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong. I will search for a link...

I don't know if you're wrong, but you could be a little less vague. How was the sexual 'assault' staged? Was the staging paradoxically covered up by clothing and blankets?

 

[BBB167893]

A fourth category, what we are told by experts.

Fair enough.

No matter if you're RDI or IDI, putting JBR's longjohns back on after violating her seems very odd. If its true she was wrapped in a blanket too, that's even more odd. It doesn't make much sense in IDI or RDI.

Actually it does make some sense in RDI: a gesture of love and remorse. And BEFORE you wave that off, HOTYH, I suggest you recall the case of Jeffery MacDonald, who murdered his baby daughter in a horrific manner, then went to the trouble of giving her a bottle.

While you can't ever corroborate witness testimony of finding the ransom note on the stairs, you can corroborate the witness testimony of removing duct tape and blanket. Thats because duct tape and blanket were found discarded on the basement floor.

Not just that. Fleet White was there when it happened. Sometimes I think that was intentional on JR's part.

 

[Tadpole12]

As for HOTYH, I see he's got three categories going now: what we know, what witnesses have claimed, and speculation. I wonder where he would put the eight pathologists.

Yes. Columnized under .... ? .... inapplicable. j/k

Still I was wondering about the critiques/division between posters here regarding source ... and well, the sheer number of books sold.
CW's book set the crime in stone. PMPT leads you to conclusions.
And the Ramsey's book is a finger pointer with no where to go.
How many books were sold?

When's JR gonna sue everyone?
When will CW and those eight pathologists retract their statements.
Ok, it's like Never land.


Still, that an interesting process ... @ Hotyh, taking the case back to its bare minimums?

Hey @ Hotyh, have you compiled any 1996 - 1997 headlines, info re any oddity re socialism in Boulder, bomb threats, vandalism, .....

I've been reading thru some headlines just to get the nuiances in Boulder.
Lots of headlines re Finance, a few crimes, community events ....
Lots of $ and elitisms in BC and lots of riff raff.

 

[Tadpole12]

It was actually in a book that John had been reading...a staged sexual assault, complete with murder. I think that it was by John Douglas...and...I believe that the book was true. I am sure that I will be corrected if I am wrong. I will search for a link...

Hi Ames.

Oh YES! Cool. I've been sooo interested in the JD "Mind Hunter" connection: and the LA Mind F'er statement about JR.

 

[BBB167893]

Then for what other purposes would somebody violate somebody else, if not for gratification? Is 'staging' the only other possibility?

I appreciate Ames' pinch-hitting greatly. She's the kind of friend you want to keep. But since you did ask me, here goes.

Is it the only other possibility? It's definitely the only one I can think of.

Is this the CASKU violation gratification/staging rule? Where if the evidence suggests there was no perpetrator gratification, then look to staging?

I suppose you'd have to ask them. But it makes sense to me!

I wonder if it has ever even happened before. That is, I wonder if there was ever a 'minor genital trauma associated with crime scene staging.'

As the Duke might say, "bet on it, pilgrim."

I take my hat off to Ames for this:

I just researched it. It HAS happened before...true stories...in the book Mind Hunter..by John Douglas.

That plain enough for you?

 

[Tadpole12]

Yep....you are right about one thing....
"No matter if you're RDI or IDI, putting JBR's longjohns back on after violating her seems very odd. If its true she was wrapped in a blanket too, that's even more odd. It doesn't make much sense in IDI or RDI."
Finally...we agree on something!

by wrapping someone in blanket, papoose style, its easier to drag or move a body.
The redressing ... all the IDI scenarios include irrationality of the perp.

 

[BBB167893]

Reasons to violate: gratification, concealment of one crime by staging another crime, OR, something else. Keep going. If you reread your own last post, you might think of it.

Speak plainly, HOTYH. Just come out and say what you've got on your mind.

To rephrase, why would somebody 'violate' somebody else, if not for gratification?

You got me.

I already know staging a sex crime, staging a botched kidnapping, staging, staging, etc. etc (talk about stuck records, SD).

I wish we didn't HAVE to keep saying it!

Why else, besides staging, would somebody violate somebeody else, not for gratification, and only cause minor genital trauma?

No reason I can think of.

Basically, I don't think there's an 'either/or' rule about gratification/staging.

I don't think anyone here said there WAS, HOTYH. CASKU just added it up, is all. They did exactly what I keep telling YOU to do: look at the big picture.

 

[Tadpole12]

@ Hotyh.

B&E to Kidnapping-Murder gone wrong, 'staged' as rape .... yet a continued attempt of extortion.

So why?
because the perp has an established criminal MO known to the police.
because he was known to JBR and family.
because JBR interupted a crime in process.
Sicko factor?
Two perps.


Also, Hotyh .... I was wondering about banking hours that week, post 26th ... will read more.

 

[Tadpole12]

To rephrase, why would somebody 'violate' somebody else, if not for gratification? -Hotyh

incapable of sexual gratification?

 

[Tadpole12]

Also, Hotyh .... I was wondering about banking hours that week, post 26th ... will read more. - TP

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/calendar/monthly.cfm?Year=1996&Month=12&Audience=SSEP

as the days are dispersed, would there have been limited banking hours on Friday the 27th, Satuday the 28th?

the payoff, 118 thou of non-sequential unmarked bills.
Would that have been possible for JR to obtain in one day?

 

[Solace]

Also, Hotyh .... I was wondering about banking hours that week, post 26th ... will read more. - TP

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/calendar/monthly.cfm?Year=1996&Month=12&Audience=SSEP

as the days are dispersed, would there have been limited banking hours on Friday the 27th, Satuday the 28th?

the payoff, 118 thou of non-sequential unmarked bills.
Would that have been possible for JR to obtain in one day?

I think the possibilities for JR are endless considering what he managed to get away with and the contacts he had. That is why it is inconceivable that anyone believes this 911 bs. He would not have called 911 if she were truly kidnapped.

So what happened with the money. I believe I read it was never picked up, delivered or however they do it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

To rephrase, why would somebody 'violate' somebody else, if not for gratification? -Hotyh

incapable of sexual gratification?

"The sexual violation of JonBenet, whether pre or postmortem did not appear to have been committed for the perpetrators gratification. The penetration, which caused minor genital trauma, was more likely part of a staged crime scene intended to mislead the police."

This statement I think sits at the core of what really happened to JBR vs. what is assumed to have happened.

It makes the assertion that the perpetrator was not likely motivated by sexual gratification because JBR's injuries were too minor. If her injuries were major, then the perp would've appeared to be sexually gratified by a child.

Did this really come from CASKU?

There is this assumption that a child is less likely to be the subject of sexual gratification when the trauma is minor. There is also the assumption that the perpetrator is the only one who would or would not be sexually gratified.

These are bad assumptions, because in the vast majority of cases where a child is the subject of sexual gratification, there is NO injury, and the person who is ultimately gratified may not even be there.

If all you knew about was JBR's 'minor trauma', it would be exponentially more likely she was the subject of somebody's sexual gratification.

 

[Tadpole12]

I think the possibilities for JR are endless considering what he managed to get away with and the contacts he had. That is why it is inconceivable that anyone believes this 911 bs. He would not have called 911 if she were truly kidnapped.

So what happened with the money. I believe I read it was never picked up, delivered or however they do it.

Hi Solace.
I'm not too sure if it was even arranged with the bank, can't remmember.

Yes ... I was also wondering how the perp/s would have known not to contact the Ramseys that day .... watching the house? listening to on air police traffic? Can you see the Ramsey house from considerable distance?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Also, Hotyh .... I was wondering about banking hours that week, post 26th ... will read more. - TP

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/calendar/monthly.cfm?Year=1996&Month=12&Audience=SSEP

as the days are dispersed, would there have been limited banking hours on Friday the 27th, Satuday the 28th?

the payoff, 118 thou of non-sequential unmarked bills.
Would that have been possible for JR to obtain in one day?

The rn stated "I'll call tomorrow between 8 and 10 AM..."

I think that meant the 27th. Somebody posted that there was a call at that time, but the caller hung up.

 

[Tadpole12]

Also, Hotyh .... I was wondering about banking hours that week, post 26th ... will read more. - TP

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/calendar/monthly.cfm?Year=1996&Month=12&Audience=SSEP

as the days are dispersed, would there have been limited banking hours on Friday the 27th, Satuday the 28th?

the payoff, 118 thou of non-sequential unmarked bills.
Would that have been possible for JR to obtain in one day?

2008, BC calender, Holiday closings, Dec 25, 2008:

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/dec/25/christmas-holiday-closings/

Markets, banks
Stock and commodity markets, banks and financial institutions are closed today, resuming normal hours Friday.
[Friday the 26th, 2008]

 

[Tadpole12]

The rn stated "I'll call tomorrow between 8 and 10 AM..."

I think that meant the 27th. Somebody posted that there was a call at that time, but the caller hung up.

hmmmm?
Ya right, in some scenarios of IDI the note was written on the 25th?
note to be found on the 26th.

 

[BBB167893]

"The sexual violation of JonBenet, whether pre or postmortem did not appear to have been committed for the perpetrators gratification. The penetration, which caused minor genital trauma, was more likely part of a staged crime scene intended to mislead the police."

This statement I think sits at the core of what really happened to JBR vs. what is assumed to have happened.

I would agree with that sentiment.

It makes the assertion that the perpetrator was not likely motivated by sexual gratification because JBR's injuries were too minor. If her injuries were major, then the perp would've appeared to be sexually gratified by a child.

Makes sense to me. (Given how that usually works out.)

Did this really come from CASKU?

No reason to think it didn't.

There is this assumption that a child is less likely to be the subject of sexual gratification when the trauma is minor. There is also the assumption that the perpetrator is the only one who would or would not be sexually gratified.

Oh, boy.

These are bad assumptions, because in the vast majority of cases where a child is the subject of sexual gratification, there is NO injury, and the person who is ultimately gratified may not even be there.

That may be true, HOTYH. But not in cases where murder is involved, by and large.

If all you knew about was JBR's 'minor trauma', it would be exponentially more likely she was the subject of somebody's sexual gratification.

Maybe, but that's not all we know, so no use harping on it.

 

[Anniegirl]

Totally off topic here -- I didnt want to start a new thread when could just ask opinions on an active thread.

After watching "little Miss Perfect" a few times ( moms and their little daughters doing pagents) I have to say IMO those moms are wacked--maybe not fair to say , ALL pagent moms are but it made me think how much Patsy Ramsey must have 'put a lot of pressure on ' Jonbenet to be her little miss perfect and how Jonbenet not being "perfect' with the bed wetting...etc. that Patsy very well could have 'lost it' .

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Maybe, but that's not all we know, so no use harping on it.

You're right. Thats not all we know.

We also know there was unknown male DNA found in three places on two articles of clothing JBR was wearing at the time she was murdered.

 

[BBB167893]

You're right. Thats not all we know.

My point was that it's no use trying to go back.

We also know there was unknown male DNA found in three places on two articles of clothing JBR was wearing at the time she was murdered. ?

Quite so, given the circumstances.

Could we get back to the subject at hand?