Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[BBB167893]

I agree, because IMO checking CODIS for a match will never work.

Finally, something we can agree on!

 

[BBB167893]

Hi Hotyh.

I've got this one covered!
I'm not good with those riddle me this type questions ...

but this query .... is answerable?



A:Trip DeMuth's page, headed 'Baggage List on Slow Train'.


http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2009/feb/02/boulder-police-take-back-jonbenet-ramsey-case/
"Trip DeMuth, a former Boulder prosecutor who worked on the Ramsey case, said he doesn’t believe Beckner can handle the case without prejudice, and it is “less likely to be solved” unless the department approaches it without baggage"

Ha! Trip's the LAST person to talk about approaching this case without baggage! He needs a damn skycap!

 

[Sophie]

Ha! Trip's the LAST person to talk about approaching this case without baggage! He needs a damn skycap!

LOL :clap:

 

[Sophie]

I agree, because IMO checking CODIS for a match will never work.

If the indisputable parts of the RN are true, then CODIS will not show a match, because a "small foreign faction" that is "respectful of a business but not a country" does not fall within the scope of CODIS DNA collection activities. Not even close.

Indisputable meaning that there has been no discovery that can rule the RN authors' claims as invalid.

I know what you mean, HOTYH, but I sort of thought that police in different jurisdictions regularly shared DNA. Er, so to speak. So, if police thought that say, an EU citizen did it, they could ask EU countries to run the DNA through their databases. Anyhow, I know your LE is helping police in Wales over a murder/rape in 1946 so you'd assume that sort of help would be reciprocal.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I know what you mean, HOTYH, but I sort of thought that police in different jurisdictions regularly shared DNA. Er, so to speak. So, if police thought that say, an EU citizen did it, they could ask EU countries to run the DNA through their databases. Anyhow, I know your LE is helping police in Wales over a murder/rape in 1946 so you'd assume that sort of help would be reciprocal.

Different jurisdictions is probably an understatement.

Sharing CODIS DNA information to solve crimes in reciprocity is the exception, not the norm, globally. Besides, a foreign faction that 'respects the business not the country' is most likely to reside in a country that is not sharing. Thats probably why the perp(s) were not worried about not only leaving DNA evidence behind, but scads of handwriting also.

 

[KoldKase]

HAHAHAHA

Yeah, it was a foreign faction! They were so NOT worried about leaving DNA, they left an entire few cells after hours of roaming the home, murdering a child, staging the crime scene, and practicing the ransom note in Patsy's handwriting!

Clevah devils, aren't they? No wonder we can't win this war on terror!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HAHAHAHA

Yeah, it was a foreign faction! They were so NOT worried about leaving DNA, they left an entire few cells after hours of roaming the home, murdering a child, staging the crime scene, and practicing the ransom note in Patsy's handwriting!

Guess what...

No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author.

Thats right. Not one of the experts hired by local LE identified PR as the RN author. What do you make of that? Do you still want to blurt that PR wrote the note when experts haven't? Experts that were hired to do that very thing?

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Patsy-Ramsey-as-RN-Author

Dusak Findings. "Richard Dusick (sic) of the U.S. Secret Service concluded that there was "no evidence to indicate that Patsy Ramsey executed any of the questioned material appearing on the Ransom Note." (SMF P 200; PSMF P 200.)" (Carnes 2003:26, note 14).


Wow. The US Secret Service expert goes even further: NO EVIDENCE, he says. Are you sure we're discussing the same case?? I mean, how do you write off these experts? Arbitrarily? How do you go from 'no evidence' to 'someone was copying PR's handwriting'?? Are you just making stuff up?

 

[BBB167893]

Guess what...

No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author.

Thats right. Not one of the experts hired by local LE identified PR as the RN author. What do you make of that? Do you still want to blurt that PR wrote the note when experts haven't? Experts that were hired to do that very thing?

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Patsy-Ramsey-as-RN-Author

Dusak Findings. "Richard Dusick (sic) of the U.S. Secret Service concluded that there was "no evidence to indicate that Patsy Ramsey executed any of the questioned material appearing on the Ransom Note." (SMF P 200; PSMF P 200.)" (Carnes 2003:26, note 14).


Wow. The US Secret Service expert goes even further: NO EVIDENCE, he says. Are you sure we're discussing the same case?? I mean, how do you write off these experts? Arbitrarily? How do you go from 'no evidence' to 'someone was copying PR's handwriting'?? Are you just making stuff up?

I can tell you that KK is making up nothing. Other than that, I'll let KK handle it. Then maybe I'll jump in fully.

 

[KoldKase]

There's nothing to handle, SuperD.

HoldOn, you're just holding on to the one and only person who said Patsy didn't write the note.

There are half a dozen OTHER experts who say either she DID write it, and they're ready to testify in court she did, or that THEY CAN'T ELIMINATE HER--including her own paid experts.

If you want to know the politics being played in that "battle of the experts" game, read more closely. It's not a mystery.

Which is why I say do you believe what someone tells you, or your lying eyes? LOOK FOR YOURSELF. The exemplars of Patsy's are available for everyone to see and compare to the ransom note, which is also available. They have in fact been compared ad nauseam by countless experts, amateurs, and everything in between, if you don't have the patience to make the comparisons or need some help knowing what to compare. If then you can't see the blatant similarities yourself, then I guess you can't. Keep quoting the Ramsey party line.

I can see that Patsy wrote that note. Even John said that Patsy couldn't be eliminated as the writer. Even Pam Paugh said it looked like Patsy's writing. Even Patsy said it "looked like" a woman wrote it. She would know, after all.

But go ahead and believe WHAT A COINCIDENCE it was that the intruder so CLEARLY wrote like Patsy, talked like her, knew inside info and linguistics common to the family, AND HAS NEVER BEEN EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IDENTIFIED.

Me, I look for the truth, not spin and propaganda.

 

[KoldKase]

Michelle Dresbold - Handwriting Analysis Expert Trained by the U. S. Secret Service:

“The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent.”

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner:

“Based on the presently available documents, there are strong indications that Patsy Ramsey is the author of the ransom note.”

David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner:

“There are far too many similarities and consistencies revealed in the handwriting of Patsy Ramsey and
the ransom note for it to be coincidence. In light of the number of comparisons and similarities between Patsy Ramsey and the ransom note writer (51), the chances of a third party also sharing the same characteristics is astronomical. In my professional opinion Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer.”

Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents:

“Based upon available exemplars compared to the purported "ransom" note in the JonBenét Ramsey murder, the handwriting is probably that of Patsy Ramsey.”

Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert:

Chet Ubowski wrote, "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' He is said to have found 24 of 26 letters in the ransom note which matched exemplars from Patsy Ramsey.

Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner:

“I have made careful examination and comparison of the ‘ransom’ note and the exemplars of Patsy Ramsey. I have reached the conclusion that the handwritings and ‘ransom’ note were very probably written by the same person…it is my professional opinion that Patsy Ramsey very likely wrote the ‘ransom’ note.”

Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner:

“It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note.”

[I'd give credit to the person who compiled this at one point for us, but I don't have the original poster's identity handy. Sorry.]

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Wellll, when you state as fact that PR wrote the note, apparently its not a universally accepted idea. That is, there's no ABFDE 'consensus' that PR wrote the note. There's apparently not enough of your professionals willing to testify that PR wrote that note. Otherwise there would've been an arrest. See what I mean? And, its more than a little short.

If you want to state she wrote the note as if it were an established fact, go ahead. But then, where's the arrest?

In the face of new DNA evidence, you could be beating a dead horse, though.

 

[KoldKase]

It's a bit of an accepted idea that no one has been arrested for this murder but the red herring John PERV Karr. I also would bet the farm that Patsy Ramsey will NEVER be arrested for this murder. Do you want to take that bet?

I didn't think it was a secret that the arguments for every piece of evidence, behavior, and theory are disputed somewhere, by someone, "experts" and amateurs alike, so sorry if I led you to believe I thought otherwise.

I can only state what my OPINION is, and I am about as amateur as a person can get. So never think that I'm sending anyone to trial or prison just for what "I believe" about this case. I don't have that power, authority, nor expertise. So again, if you thought I was portraying myself as any of those, I apologize. Not even close!

As far as what I believe, what anyone's opinion is, expert and amateur, I don't think it matters anymore because I don't believe anyone can be successfully prosecuted for anything in this case now. Patsy and that ransom note are reasonable doubt, even if there are those who will swear in court she didn't write it. The evidence and those who will swear she DID write it are going to keep anyone other than her from a "guilty" verdict for all time.

So when I say Patsy wrote the note, I believe that everything I have seen when researching it proves that--TO ME. [See the bottom of my posts: "My opinions, nothing more."]

So I consider this just an exercise in discussing information I have gathered for 12 years, which is worth exactly not much. If only I had spent this much time on my doctorate.... sigh :boohoo:

 

[BBB167893]

There's nothing to handle, SuperD.

HoldOn, you're just holding on to the one and only person who said Patsy didn't write the note.

There are half a dozen OTHER experts who say either she DID write it, and they're ready to testify in court she did, or that THEY CAN'T ELIMINATE HER--including her own paid experts.

If you want to know the politics being played in that "battle of the experts" game, read more closely. It's not a mystery.

To me, that sums it up well.

Which is why I say do you believe what someone tells you, or your lying eyes? LOOK FOR YOURSELF. The exemplars of Patsy's are available for everyone to see and compare to the ransom note, which is also available.

I think even Hunter felt that way.

I can see that Patsy wrote that note. Even John said that Patsy couldn't be eliminated as the writer. Even Pam Paugh said it looked like Patsy's writing. Even Patsy said it "looked like" a woman wrote it. She would know, after all.

Her own mother couldn't tell the difference!

But go ahead and believe WHAT A COINCIDENCE it was that the intruder so CLEARLY wrote like Patsy, talked like her, knew inside info and linguistics common to the family, AND HAS NEVER BEEN EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IDENTIFIED.

Me, I look for the truth, not spin and propaganda.

One or two of those I could pass off as someone going to lengths to imitate her. All of them...well...

 

[BBB167893]

Wellll, when you state as fact that PR wrote the note, apparently its not a universally accepted idea.

Neither is evolution, but it seems to be an established fact! LOL. In all seriousness, I'm hard-pressed to think of any case where an idea is universally accepted. If that were the case, there wouldn't be defense attorneys. And I'm absolutely NOT being a wise-*advertiser censored** in saying that.

That is, there's no ABFDE 'consensus' that PR wrote the note.

I'd like to see a case where there WAS, HOTYH. And again, I'm deadly serious.

There's apparently not enough of your professionals willing to testify that PR wrote that note.

On the surface, that's true. But again, you have to consider the politicking that I mentioned earlier.

Otherwise there would've been an arrest.

NOT necessarily. At one point, it seems that ADA Pete Hofstrom was convinced she wrote it, but went on to say, and I quote, "so what if she wrote the note? That doesn't mean she killed her kid." And as a matter of legal course, he's correct.

See what I mean?

Not really. But then, I don't think you quite understand what we mean.

And, its more than a little short.

Could you be more specific? (I'm serious.)

If you want to state she wrote the note as if it were an established fact, go ahead.

Since when do we need your permission? LOL (Sorry, folks. I'm in a jaunty mood today!)

But then, where's the arrest?

How much time have you got, HOTYH?

In the face of new DNA evidence, you could be beating a dead horse, though.

Maybe. Maybe.

 

[Tadpole12]

Ransom note: http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

IMO As the note progresses the 'french flavour' diminishes.


First Page:

1. "Mr.[Monsieur] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/monsieur Ramsey.
2. Listen [ Ecoutez] carefully!
ecoutez isn't usually said with a 'qualifier', no need, but it has compound forms, bien ecoutez ...
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/ecoutez & ecoutez



We are a group of individuals [un groupe d'individus],

source: headline http://www.casafree.com/modules/news...p?storyid=3511

3. a small [ petit ,~e ], little, small http://www.wordreference.com/fren/petite

foreign faction [faction , feminine noun] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/faction

We xx (xx = 'ne', see post 655)

respect [respecter, transitive verb] your bussiness
4. but not the country that it serves. At this time [Maintenant ,adverb = now= at this point in time] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/maintenant,

we have
5. your daughter in our posession [possession, feminine noun; compound form = en possession] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/possession ,.

She is safe and unharmed *, [safe :http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/safe
sauf: http://www.wordreference.com/fren/sauf
sain: http://www.wordreference.com/fren/sain
sound: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/sound]

6. if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to
7. the letter.
8. You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be
9. in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure
10. that you bring an adequate size


attache [ attache, feminine noun; attache = anglification of porte-docements] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/attache


to the bank. When you get
11. home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you
12. between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The
13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to


15. arrange [arranger, transitive verb ] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/arrange

an earlier delivery of the



Second Page:


money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.

17. Any deviation [deviation, feminine noun: English: diversion - perversion ] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/deviation





of my instructions will result in the immediate
18. execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains


19. for proper burial. The two gentlemen [Monsieur, English: gentleman ]
http://www.wordreference.com/fren/Monsieur%20

watching over [ garder, transitive verb, English:guard - watch ] http://www.wordreference.com/fren/garder

your daughter
20. do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
21. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I.,
22. etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you
23. talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she
24. dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
25. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she
26. dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar
27. with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99%
28. chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow
29. our instructions



Third Page:

and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.
30. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the
31. authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only
32. fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't
33. underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours.
34. It is up to you now John!
35. Victory!
36. S.B.T.C."




Ransom Note, image: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ransom1.html

 

[JMO8778]

Neither is evolution, but it seems to be an established fact! LOL.

LOL.O my..you SO hit the nail on the head with that one...3.3 BILLION base pairs of nucleotides inside every microscopic human cell,and some ppl still can't see the truth when it's right in front of them.GREAT comparison! :clap::clap::clap:

 

[Tadpole12]

re: suggested french connection in rn.

the words 'out smart',

28. chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us.
http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

visually, http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

it appear as two words, doesn't look like the tail of the g withinin the word killing obscures a hyphen?
so that would be an error?

outsmart should be written as one word.
outsmart: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/outsmart

not an exact translation or concept in french vocab
and is an expression, transitive verb? of english origin.

 

[Tadpole12]

re: stand a chance, english origin

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

29. our instructions and you stand a 100% chance

'stand a chance', not exactly translatable
http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/stand a chance

in french, you have/possess (avoir un chance) http://www.wordreference.com/fren/une chance

not an interchangeable concept between the languages

 

[Tadpole12]

re: getting her back, english concept

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

29. our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.


to get http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/get "no equivalent'

get back:
~ back

1. (return) rentrer;
   (after short time) revenir;

1. (move backwards) reculer;

 

[Tadpole12]

re: that killing will be difficult

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

32. fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult.

shouldn't it read, killing her?

lots of references to JBR; your daughter, she, her,
but why not that specific reference in the sentence?

The line,

31. ...............................................You are not the only
32. fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult.

I don't understand it? No continuity of thought, what does the state of JR, ie being a 'fat cat' have to do with the ability of the writer/group to kill. I guess I don't understand the inference? you are not ... so don't think ... it (an action) will be (adj).

maybe it's the inclusion of the negative, will be difficult, rooted in french word difficile, difficult (being difficult)=etre difficile,

common expression in french .... It's not difficult ... il n'est pas difficile.

will be difficult = ca va etre difficile