Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

[jjenny]

I don't know for sure he ever took the oral exam. Do you? From what I've read, I actually think he may've failed his prelims.

Oral exam is a part of prelims, I believe.

 

[Liz]

Ah, okay, then I misread the school policy regarding 6 more months.

I still think the Docs there would have helped him until he found a Doc, and even helped him find one, if he chose to see one.

Clearly, he had other plans, and did not want to see a Doc.

You could be right, but I really feel we can not state with definity that JH clearly didn't want to see a Dr. We've had no information to substantiate that. We really don't know. We need more facts. JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.

 

[21merc7]

We don't yet know where he got vicodin. I am not aware of many non-addictive anti anxiety meds, though. I believe xanax is also considered addictive.

Thanks, didn't know if that had been reported yet.

There are drugs that do not have the effects Vicodin does, that is what I was asking. I thought there were some that were not addictive, meaning, don't feel like a junkie needing a high.

 

[21merc7]

You could be right, but I really feel we can not state with definity that JH clearly didn't want to see a Dr. We've had no information to substantiate that. We really don't know. We need more facts. JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.

Oops, forgot to add another moo, going to fix it.

 

[jjenny]

Thanks, didn't know if that had been reported yet.

There are drugs that do not have the effects Vicodin does, that is what I was asking. I thought there were some that were not addictive, meaning, don't feel like a junkie needing a high.

I am not aware of such drugs. But if they exist, they most likely are much less effective.

 

[21merc7]

I am not aware of such drugs. But if they exist, they most likely are much less effective.

Xanax gives you a high?

The many people I know on anti-depressants for either anxiety or depression never said anything about getting a high or craving more. In fact, they just didn't like them. The only mentioned psychological side effect is just not feeling up or down.

I could be wrong, but none of their medications contained opiods as Vicodin does. Or so I thought, maybe I'd better go look them up.

ETA: Okay, a couple are benzos which you can get a high from, most are classified SSRI, so, I don't think you get high and crave them, but they are addictive, I still don't know about a high on those. I'm still wondering why give someone Vicodin instead of one of the others, but it is moot since we are not sure he had Vicodin much less a prescription for it.

 

[cece5300]

If I was JH Mom I would sue the therapist and school so bad they would be out of business permanently

For what? Not being able to tell the future? Not continuing to treat an adult student who voluntarily left the program and didn't seek further treatment? If the psychiatrist would have called the police (or whatever it is you expect them to have done), nothing would have happened. Nobody saw this coming.

 

[KMouse]

Ah, okay, then I misread the school policy regarding 6 more months.

I still think the Docs there would have helped him until he found a Doc, and even helped him find one, if he chose to see one.

Clearly, he had other plans, and did not want to see a Doc.

If somebody doesn't followup with their appointments there isn't much a doctor can do. Same with taking medication.
However if this psychiatrist reported the suspect to the threat assessment committee we don't know what the basis of that report was. If it were a threat to other people then it should have been followed up by being reported to LE.
Where I am from a doctor can go get a mental health warrant and the police will go and pick the person up and take them to the hospital for a psych. assessment.

I am not sure how JH's mother fit's into this or why she should sue. Sue who for what?

 

[jjenny]

Xanax gives you a high?

The many people I know on anti-depressants for either anxiety or depression never said anything about getting a high or craving more. In fact, they just didn't like them. The only mentioned psychological side effect is just not feeling up or down.

I could be wrong, but none of their medications contained opiods as Vicodin does. Or so I thought, maybe I'd better go look them up.

I don't know if xanax can give someone a high, but it is considered habit forming.
"Alprazolam can be habit-forming. Do not take a larger dose, take it more often, or take it for a longer period of time than prescribed by your doctor . "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000807/

 

[jjenny]

If somebody doesn't followup with their appointments there isn't much a doctor can do. Same with taking medication.
However if this psychiatrist reported the suspect to the threat assessment committee we don't know what the basis of that report was. If it were a threat to other people then it should have been followed up by being reported to LE.
Where I am from a doctor can go get a mental health warrant and the police will go and pick the person up and take them to the hospital for a psych. assessment.

She could report him to police if she knew about serious threat toward specific person or persons. We don't know if she knew anything like that.

 

[21merc7]

If somebody doesn't followup with their appointments there isn't much a doctor can do. Same with taking medication.
However if this psychiatrist reported the suspect to the threat assessment committee we don't know what the basis of that report was. If it were a threat to other people then it should have been followed up by being reported to LE.
Where I am from a doctor can go get a mental health warrant and the police will go and pick the person up and take them to the hospital for a psych. assessment.

I am not sure how JH's mother fit's into this or why she should sue. Sue who for what?

We don't know if he threatened harm to himself or others. We don't know what the report was. Could have been anything. We'll have to wait to find out why LE was not called. A team of people made that choice, so perhaps they did not see him as being a harm to self or others.

I know nothing about any lawsuits for parents to pursue, nor any reason for them to do so. In fact, we don't know much of anything yet.

 

[21merc7]

Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June

In a news conference last week, CU Anschutz Medical Campus Graduate School Dean Barry Shur said Holmes dropped out of the CU Ph.D Neuroscience program on June 10th. "My understanding he has not been back on campus where the program is since that time," he said last week.

During the period when, sources say, Fenton contacted fellow BETA team members, Holmes did not do well on an oral presentation on June 7. It is also unclear whether Holmes could find a mentor to help him as required for continuing in the Ph.D program. On the same day, June 7, Holmes legally purchased an AR-15 rifle, according to ABC News

A whole lot of info in this article, including the same conflicting thoughts we are discussing here.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html

 

[CARIIS]

It’s not like it’s about power and or control. At its core, duty to warn it’s a clinical judgment issue. It is evaluative. It a professional obligation to involuntary commit an individual who poses a danger to self or anyone else The notion that the individual has to concretely come out and say I am going to kill someone day after tomorrow is not accurate. MI is far too complicated.
.
There are so many variables in making a determination to proceed:

Does he have a support system? Are there people around him that are aware of his illness?

Is he being threatening?
What is his medication compliance history? What is this history of violence? Has he been involuntarily committed before?
How often, and for how long has he previously been hospiilized? Is his behavior escalating?
How is he sleeping? Eating?
What does he report to you as it relates to his medications?
How much insight does the display about his illness? What typically has happened in the past when he stops his meds?
Is he coming in looking more and more disheveled?

If employed is his performance deteriorating.
In this case the school. Does know who he is. ?
Does he know where he is? Does he know what date it is? What are his feelings and thoughts about taking his medications?
What about financial ability to obtain his medications?


Has he been missing appointments more frequently? How is he communicating? Is his affect congruent (if you say someone passed away does he giggle etc.?)
Is he ruminating/obsessing over something?
Is he having difficulty staying on task, focusing? Is he being loud? How is he sitting in the chair?

Is he making eye contact? Is he sitting in chair or pacing/fidgety?
Does he appear agitated?
Are his feelings changing rapidly from feelings of sadness, to anger, to frustration, to confusion?
What does tell you he has been doing recently? When asked how does he describe what he has been feeling thinking?
How is his memory?

Is he taking his medication correctly?
What is he experiecing in terms of side effects?
Has he had a recent med change?

If committed before how does he feel about it? (Some like it its safe place).

Does he have a history of drinking or drug abuse? How long has he remained stable? Does he have transportation to get to the pharmacy?

Is he verbalizing any intention to take as medications?
What is his diagnosis history? How long has he suffered with mental illness?
Have there been any profound changes or stressors recently?

Basically, duty to warn isn’t just a one dimensioned notion. It is a clinical, professional, highly variable judgment call. Howevertypically when that determination is made, involuntary commitment usually occurs.

Law enforcement is very unlikely not to transport any individual that mental health professional has determined is in need of further evaluation.

It is not viewed as forcing some one into treatment. In fact, if there is some level of rapport, and executed with compassion and caring very often that patient will, at some level, find a level of comfort in being in a structured, safe, environment.

Invoking it is not taken lightly, however, it is the right thing to do, when the above mentioned variables form a compelling need to do so.

Finally, law enforcement transporting an individual to a hospital, at that point, ONLY means, another professionial will evaluate - look at it as double safety net.



It IS the law.

It’s the old adage better to be safe than sorry, and in my opinion, were all pretty sorry the last couple of weeks.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Xanax gives you a high?

The many people I know on anti-depressants for either anxiety or depression never said anything about getting a high or craving more. In fact, they just didn't like them. The only mentioned psychological side effect is just not feeling up or down.

I could be wrong, but none of their medications contained opiods as Vicodin does. Or so I thought, maybe I'd better go look them up.

ETA: Okay, a couple are benzos which you can get a high from, most are classified SSRI, so, I don't think you get high and crave them, but they are addictive, I still don't know about a high on those. I'm still wondering why give someone Vicodin instead of one of the others, but it is moot since we are not sure he had Vicodin much less a prescription for it.

Girl, Benzo's were my drug of choice. I'd have passed up a Vicodin for a Benzo (pretty much any one of 'em) any day, all day. They treat two totally different things but both are highly addictive. I can't imagine any Doc giving someone Vicodin for anxiety, it's a pain pill.

 

[21merc7]

Girl, Benzo's were my drug of choice. I'd have passed up a Vicodin for a Benzo (pretty much any one of 'em) any day, all day. They treat two totally different things but both are highly addictive. I can't imagine any Doc giving someone Vicodin for anxiety, it's a pain pill.

Thanks OLG, I knew you had more knowledge here on this topic than I do. I had to do some research and the benzos were eye opening for sure!

The part I bolded is my question. WTH??? We don't know if JH was prescribed these, but he "said" he had taken some, I think I recall a report that was looking into his prescriptions - don't quote me on that one though. However, in the doc thread, she has prescribed it before for headaches and anxiety. Seems a bit over the top to me. I'm hoping he did not have a scrip for them for anxiety.

 

[zvzvzv]

Vicoden is commonly prescribed by dentists,
maybe 5 pills following a procedure like wisdom teeth removal.
He could have just had them in his medicine cabinet &
figured I'd be a good time (last chance) to take 'em.

 

[newsleuther]

Uh, that depends on many things.

I know 30 days before my daughter turned 19, our insurance requested some information about her. Where she working...McD's....and where she went to school. Then they dropped her on her 19th birthday. The reason, b/c she had a job. It didn't matter that she was part time and going to school full time. Mcd's offers insurance. Expensive insurance. Didn't matter to our insurance company.

Now, in 2014, if she still doesn't have insurance, I can add her back on ours. That when the law comes into full effect.

The law for allowing any child up to 26 to stay in their parents insurance went into place June of 2011... I know this because my brother was able to get back on my Dad's insurance, even while working part time at a job he could have gotten expensive insurance through. Certain parts of the healthcare law went into place early, and that was one of them.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Thanks OLG, I knew you had more knowledge here on this topic than I do. I had to do some research and the benzos were eye opening for sure!

The part I bolded is my question. WTH??? We don't know if JH was prescribed these, but he "said" he had taken some, I think I recall a report that was looking into his prescriptions - don't quote me on that one though. However, in the doc thread, she has prescribed it before for headaches and anxiety. Seems a bit over the top to me. I'm hoping he did not have a scrip for them for anxiety.

From what's being reported, I'm not too impressed with his supposed psychiatrist and if what's being reported is true I won't be all that surprised to hear she was mis-prescribing his meds. Sadly it happens more than people realize. But Vicodin for anxiety?! (For those who don't know me, I'm stating this as a psych patient not as a professional in any sense of the word)

 

[newsleuther]

Another few questions if anyone knows the answers.

Did he have a prescription for the Vicodin he allegedly said he took?

If so, why would a 24 year old have Vicodin? If for anxiety, why not prescribe one of the many other non-addictive anti-anxiety meds that do not have as many negative side effects? Vicodin is a very serious drug!

I seriously doubt he was scripted Vicodin for anxiety.

He probably didn't even have a prescription for it, it's very easy to get on the street or from a friend.

 

[newsleuther]

Xanax gives you a high?

The many people I know on anti-depressants for either anxiety or depression never said anything about getting a high or craving more. In fact, they just didn't like them. The only mentioned psychological side effect is just not feeling up or down.

I could be wrong, but none of their medications contained opiods as Vicodin does. Or so I thought, maybe I'd better go look them up.

ETA: Okay, a couple are benzos which you can get a high from, most are classified SSRI, so, I don't think you get high and crave them, but they are addictive, I still don't know about a high on those. I'm still wondering why give someone Vicodin instead of one of the others, but it is moot since we are not sure he had Vicodin much less a prescription for it.

Yes, Xanax/Valium, etc give you a high and are highly addictive. In fact, withdrawal from Xanax or any other benzo is much more dangerous than withdrawal from an opiate (vicodin), it can give you seizures.