ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 2

[Elley Mae]

GVG's reputation is down the tubes because of women's statements from previous relationships. The thing to remember is that even though rape is alleged and police have a video of that alleged rape, police chose not to file charges agains GVG. That suggests that the allegation of rape is not as clear cut as suggested. If he did something to Robyn, I would like to see justice served. However, I wouldn't want to see him convicted on the basis of claims made by women he angered in previous relationships.

He has a record- domestic violence Ex-wife I wonder if she dropped charges for the sake of the children

 

[otto]

Out of curiosity, what experience or knowledge are you basing all that on?

Can you think of a rape prosecution that has been brought when the victim was unwilling to testify?

Of course, you are correct that prosecutors do not need the "permission" of a victim to prosecute a crime. But in a rape case, where state of mind and victimization are central to the case, the cooperation of the victim is generally essential.

I also happen to agree that this is even more true when the victim and the perp already had a relationship, than with complete stranger cases.

I think it's pretty clear the prior instances of sexual aggression by GVG were not prosecuted because the victims did not want any more pain or trouble.

No, I'm not going to search for cases where an alleged rape was filmed from beginning to end and police decided to press charges even though the victim was unwilling to testify. I'm basing my opinion on assumptions about the criminal code, responsibilities of police and evidence. The entire event was caught on camera. That evidence was obtained by police and reviewed by the prosecution. Evidently, that evidence did not stand up on it's own because no charges were filed. If the evidence was clear, the victim would not need to testify.

 

[otto]

He has a record- domestic violence Ex-wife I wonder if she dropped charges for the sake of the children

There are no domestic violence charges ... only 4 theft under $500 charges. Both husband and wife in the first marriage alleged some form of abuse. I think the wife said that he hit her with a metal spoon and he said she threw the phone at him. The second wife said that there were marital problems of some sort (don't think details were given).

Still, the fact remains that there are no charges against GVG regarding any kind of domestic abuse, rape or violence.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

There is only one woman that has alleged rape. Police don't need permission from a victim to bring rape charges. There is a video of the alleged rape and police obtained that video. If it was a clear case of rape, that much would be obvious, so police would have the responsibility to take a rapist off the streets. The fact that police did not file rape charges suggests to me that whatever happened was not clearly evident to Maryland police as a rape.

If the contents of the video did not indicate a clear rape, then indeed the victim would be required to testify and it has been said that she was afraid to testify. I suppose that means one of two things: she did not have confidence in a conviction; or, she did not believe that a sentence would be long enough to keep her safe.

Either way, police had a video of the alleged assault and did not conclude that it was sufficient to bring rape charges against GVG.

BBM. Not that I know of. Where did you hear that? What video?

 

[otto]

I dont know whats going on in this case..well, I mean yeah, im following along with everyone, but still some how confused as to various reports, etc..

what I want to say is this..per snorkel gear..

My husband and I have had the pleasure to snorkel in the Bahamas, in Cancun, In hawaii, and we always take our own snorkel gear with us, we never rent it..

Same here ... if you're used to snorkeling on vacation, you have the gear and take it along ... much easier than trying to get a good fit with rented fins and goggles.

 

[Starfish]

I dont know whats going on in this case..well, I mean yeah, im following along with everyone, but still some how confused as to various reports, etc..

what I want to say is this..per snorkel gear..

My husband and I have had the pleasure to snorkel in the Bahamas, in Cancun, In hawaii, and we always take our own snorkel gear with us, we never rent it..

I'm sure a lot of folks take their own, if for no other reason, they don't want to put a snorkel in their mouth that some stranger had in theirs...disinfected or not! But fins do take up a TON of room in your luggage. We're divers so we have our own equipment too, fortunately, we own a home on Bonaire & are just able to leave it there instead of lugging it around like we used to especially with the airline baggage fees now! But I did rent fins (I had extra masks & snorkels) for 2 of my friends in May when we went to my place & the shop took cc numbers.

 

[otto]

BBM. Not that I know of. Where did you hear that? What video?

I'll look for it. I read that the woman filed the complaint, so police got a warrant and got the video.

"Family law attorney Gail Landau represented one woman who swore out a Peace Order against Giordano in 2010. According to an application for a search warrant, Giordano was arrested April 28, 2010 after one woman accused him of strangling her during sex, an encounter investigators said was on video. According to the application, the victim "was struck several times in the head, face buttocks and legs." She was also "digitally choked and subjected to manual strangulation during the event.

The search warrant ordered investigators to seize any other tapes in the home -- which has a security camera on the roof and a sign warning visitors they will be video and audio recorded at all times -- that might depict other victims of Gary Giordano.

In the end, prosecutors dropped both cases when victims declined to go forward."

http://wusa9.com/news/article/162086/373/Details-Surface-About-Missing-Womans-Traveling-Partner

The other complaint was from a woman that claimed GVG secretly filmed her.

 

[Elley Mae]

There are no domestic violence charges ... only 4 theft under $500 charges. Both husband and wife in the first marriage alleged some form of abuse. I think the wife said that he hit her with a metal spoon and he said she threw the phone at him. The second wife said that there were marital problems of some sort (don't think details were given).

Still, the fact remains that there are no charges against GVG regarding any kind of domestic abuse, rape or violence.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=21280FL&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI case# 21280FL

 

[Just-a-Guy]

No, I'm not going to search for cases where an alleged rape was filmed from beginning to end and police decided to press charges even though the victim was unwilling to testify. I'm basing my opinion on assumptions about the criminal code, responsibilities of police and evidence. The entire event was caught on camera. That evidence was obtained by police and reviewed by the prosecution. Evidently, that evidence did not stand up on it's own because no charges were filed. If the evidence was clear, the victim would not need to testify.

Possibly. But what if the victim affirmatively did not want the case to be prosecuted, out of fear, emotional pain, embarrassment, or whatever? I just think it's a bit of a stretch to say that, because no prosecution was brought, it must not have been rape. I happen to know people who have been raped (I'm sure we all do, what do they say, 1 in 4?), but who simply could not bear the pain of a court proceeding. And in this guy's case, it's clear he threatens and intimidates those who challenge him....

 

[imawitch]

I'm sure a lot of folks take their own, if for no other reason, they don't want to put a snorkel in their mouth that some stranger had in theirs...disinfected or not! But fins do take up a TON of room in your luggage. We're divers so we have our own equipment too, fortunately, we own a home on Bonaire & are just able to leave it there instead of lugging it around like we used to especially with the airline baggage fees now! But I did rent fins (I had extra masks & snorkels) for 2 of my friends in May when we went to my place & the shop took cc numbers.

I agree about the fins taking up space...we stopped using fins tho, lol for some reason, I do better with out the fins? dunno why? lol

I hope they find robyn soon.

 

[Tugela]

It was the boyfriend that claimed Robyn would never get into the water, but who also claimed that she was a strong swimmer. Both can't be true. If she is indeed a strong swimmer, I'm sure her mother has cleared that up. If she's a strong swimmer, then I think it's more likely that she went snorkeling with him and it's also quite possible that they were unaware of the riptides in the area.

Maybe RG would not get into the water with *him*, that doesn't mean that she would not get into the water. The boyfriend does not seemed to have known what makes RG tick, if the Aruba trip was a big surprise to him. I suspect that her relationship with the BF was as a potential future husband/source of support, whereas GG was more her kind of party guy. If that is the case she would be presenting very different faces to the two of them. She might not do the adventurous/fun stuff with the BF because she would be trying to maintain an image with him (at least until they got married), whereas with GG should could let her real self run free since she wouldn't need to bother about cultivating appearances with him.

 

[otto]

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiryDetail.jis?caseId=21280FL&loc=68&detailLoc=MCCI case# 21280FL

For some reason, that's not coming up with anything. I did a search earlier on that site with entering his full name and the only cases that came up were the 4 theft cases. Is that case number pertaining to something else?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I'll look for it. I read that the woman filed the complaint, so police got a warrant and got the video.

"Family law attorney Gail Landau represented one woman who swore out a Peace Order against Giordano in 2010. According to an application for a search warrant, Giordano was arrested April 28, 2010 after one woman accused him of strangling her during sex, an encounter investigators said was on video. According to the application, the victim "was struck several times in the head, face buttocks and legs." She was also "digitally choked and subjected to manual strangulation during the event.

The search warrant ordered investigators to seize any other tapes in the home -- which has a security camera on the roof and a sign warning visitors they will be video and audio recorded at all times -- that might depict other victims of Gary Giordano.

In the end, prosecutors dropped both cases when victims declined to go forward."

http://wusa9.com/news/article/162086/373/Details-Surface-About-Missing-Womans-Traveling-Partner

The other complaint was from a woman that claimed GVG secretly filmed her.

Thank you very much. There is also ANOTHER woman who filed a protection order against him in Feb of 2010.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1496/courtorder.jpg

There is a guy who says he knows this woman (VP), and says she got involved with Giardano via a swingers site and chose not to pursue criminal charges of assault (he says he beat her and choked her) because she didnt want all the dirt about her lifestyle as well as the things she was involved with surrounding Giordano to get out in public, which would have happened had she pursued criminal charges. He says GG then stalked and harassed her, made threats, posted the photos, videos, put things about her in her neighbors mailboxes etc, and in the end while she got the restraining order, she chose not to take it any further with criminal charges.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

For some reason, that's not coming up with anything. I did a search earlier on that site with entering his full name and the only cases that came up were the 4 theft cases. Is that case number pertaining to something else?

Choose the Frederick circuit court when putting in the case number.

 

[otto]

Possibly. But what if the victim affirmatively did not want the case to be prosecuted, out of fear, emotional pain, embarrassment, or whatever? I just think it's a bit of a stretch to say that, because no prosecution was brought, it must not have been rape. I happen to know people who have been raped (I'm sure we all do, what do they say, 1 in 4?), but who simply could not bear the pain of a court proceeding. And in this guy's case, it's clear he threatens and intimidates those who challenge him....

In the olden days, when a woman was beaten or raped by her husband, the woman had the choice of bringing charges. The problem with that was that the women were either afraid, or they were "honeymooned" into forgiving their attacker. That meant that it happened again, but the violence was escalated. That cycle repeated itself until someone was dead. Today, police can bring charges without permission from the victim. In fact, it is the responsibility of investigators to bring charges when there is a rape, if only for the safety of society. Investigators would be extremely irresponsible if they were aware of a rape and decided to let the rapist carry on and rape more women.

He has two ex-wives, so not all the women in his life were afraid to challenge him. In fact, the women most familiar with him, and at most risk in challenging him, did so without a problem and are still alive to talk about it. Neither of them made allegations of rape.

 

[Elley Mae]

For some reason, that's not coming up with anything. I did a search earlier on that site with entering his full name and the only cases that came up were the 4 theft cases. Is that case number pertaining to something else?

domestic violence

 

[annalia]

Out of curiosity, what experience or knowledge are you basing all that on?

Can you think of a rape prosecution that has been brought when the victim was unwilling to testify?

Of course, you are correct that prosecutors do not need the "permission" of a victim to prosecute a crime. But in a rape case, where state of mind and victimization are central to the case, the cooperation of the victim is generally essential.

I also happen to agree that this is even more true when the victim and the perp already had a relationship, than with complete stranger cases.

I think it's pretty clear the prior instances of sexual aggression by GVG were not prosecuted because the victims did not want any more pain or trouble.

My bolding

Exactly. Reportedly, Prosecutors were intent on pursuing charges but only got so far, once the victim was too terrified to go any further their hands were tied and had no choice but to drop it. Otherwise they would go to trial, show a video with no testimony and GG's defense attorney says, it was all fun and games, end of trial. Doesn't mean that prosecutors thought it wasn't really a rape.

That isn't unheard of, when a victim refuses to testify at trial out of fear of possible retribution or other reasons that the case winds up getting dropped. It doesn't mean the police weren't convinced a crime had occurred.

 

[otto]

Maybe RG would not get into the water with *him*, that doesn't mean that she would not get into the water. The boyfriend does not seemed to have known what makes RG tick, if the Aruba trip was a big surprise to him. I suspect that her relationship with the BF was as a potential future husband/source of support, whereas GG was more her kind of party guy. If that is the case she would be presenting very different faces to the two of them. She might not do the adventurous/fun stuff with the BF because she would be trying to maintain an image with him (at least until they got married), whereas with GG should could let her real self run free since she wouldn't need to bother about cultivating appearances with him.

I completely agree. I've also been thinking that the guy that thought he was the boyfriend didn't know what was going on with Robyn. She had another guy that she was seeing for a year and he had no idea about the guy other than thinking he was gay. Clearly there was a bit of deception in that relationship.

 

[otto]

Thank you very much. There is also ANOTHER woman who filed a protection order against him in Feb of 2010.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1496/courtorder.jpg

There is a guy who says he knows this woman (VP), and says she got involved with Giardano via a swingers site and chose not to pursue criminal charges of assault (he says he beat her and choked her) because she didnt want all the dirt about her lifestyle as well as the things she was involved with surrounding Giordano to get out in public, which would have happened had she pursued criminal charges. He says GG then stalked and harassed her, made threats, posted the photos, videos, put things about her in her neighbors mailboxes etc, and in the end while she got the restraining order, she chose not to take it any further with criminal charges.

I don't know anything about the swingers lifestyle, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is a place where people act out whateve fantasies they have. It's obviously not about love and a relationship, so it's purely about sex ... and perhaps crazy-out-there sex. I suspect it's a buyer beware situation where people have to size someone up quickly before they decide to swing, and if they swing without checking it out ... most likely unpleasant things can happen.

 

[otto]

Choose the Frederick circuit court when putting in the case number.

Thanks. I guess there are some peace orders, but aren't those uncontested orders where everyone agrees on the contents? It's not related to criminal charges.