Ask Super Part 3

Agreed - she wore the same clothes often, did not bathe JB everyday or herself for that matter.

I don't know what to believe anymore.

If JR did it and I mean all of it the molestation included and enjoyed the twisting of the garrote in a sick way - then why would Patsy write the note and cover for him? Unless she was afraid of losing her husband, fortune and reputation or afraid of him.

If Patsy did it and was lying to everyone including her husband and staged everything - why the garrote? Why make it look like such a painful torturous death? Why not just leave it at the hitting of the head and then the fake sexual assault for the evidence of intruder. Why the twine and twisting of it? Unless she hated her child and enjoyed this too after hitting her so hard by accident out of anger. I wonder if Patsy had ever heard, read or seen a story somewhere of someone staging a crime scene and she knew she had to make it seem like a monster did it rather than a simple accident staged like a murder? Like somehow she knew the only way to make it believable was to make it look or seem gruesome.

If it was Burke's game and he was a sick child who enjoyed the twisting and had the strength to hit JB so hard over the head and also commit the sexual assault - then why no other trouble in his teens? Why would such a sick child not re-offend? How did he not make a mistake throughout his young life that revealed more about what he knew? A confession to a friend over drinks? An inappropriate joke, gesture etc.

If an intruder did it - then how on earth was he not found and how did he get in and out and how did he know so much about the family? We have to believe this intruder was either a neighbor or someone who knew them. How did he escape LE and his own friends and family? Maybe a loner who obssessed over JB who made himself invisible and planned this to the exact moment? Watched for fun from a far?

It is hard to make a firm guess on what happened for me. I will always wonder. MO.

Maybe... if it was Burke, he was content after JonBenet was out of the picture. He got what he wanted. He did whack her twice with a golf club. That's not normal. Maybe he sexually assaulted her to hurt her only, without being caught not really sexual at all in his mind?
 
Maybe... if it was Burke, he was content after JonBenet was out of the picture. He got what he wanted. He did whack her twice with a golf club. That's not normal. Maybe he sexually assaulted her to hurt her only, without being caught not really sexual at all in his mind?

Well we are saying here that he made the garrote and twisted it himself and sexuality assaulted her - if we are saying this then we are saying he is sick, not just a kid who wanted his sister dead and was happy to be rid of her and then lived a happy life afterward.

Or another Burke possibility is that he did cause the head injury and the head injury alone and then PR or JR or both - staged the rest to protect Burke. However, this is the same issue of - why not call police as maybe it was an accident and take their chances that Burke because he was a minor would not be punshed - or was the fear of their reputation and losing both their children enough to drive them to stage such a sick crime scene?

I am just not sure.
 
Well we are saying here that he made the garrote and twisted it himself and sexuality assaulted her - if we are saying this then we are saying he is sick, not just a kid who wanted his sister dead and was happy to be rid of her and then lived a happy life afterward.

Or another Burke possibility is that he did cause the head injury and the head injury alone and then PR or JR or both - staged the rest to protect Burke. However, this is the same issue of - why not call police as maybe it was an accident and take their chances that Burke because he was a minor would not be punshed - or was the fear of their reputation and losing both their children enough to drive them to stage such a sick crime scene?

I am just not sure.


I can imagine the insertion of the paintbrush handle, then head bashed when she either screamed or was going to tell...parents do the rest of the staging. Maybe Patsy heard the scream and started the staging thinking she was dead, maybe Burke woke them. I have no idea.
 
I disagree. She was only a perfectionist when putting on a show for others, in public. At home Pasty was a slob. IMO It was all about apperances.

So you mean she wanted JB to be the perfect beauty queen only in public?
Why dressing her like that when they burried her then,the silly crown and stuff.Her funeral was a show too,why didn't it matter in the staging then.Staging is about appearances.Someone was careful enough to pick out the wednesday pair but wasn't paying attention to the size?extremely careful with one detail and not careful at all with another?sounds like two people again.
 
So you mean she wanted JB to be the perfect beauty queen only in public?
Why dressing her like that when they burried her then,the silly crown and stuff.Her funeral was a show too,why didn't it matter in the staging then.Staging is about appearances.Someone was careful enough to pick out the wednesday pair but wasn't paying attention to the size?extremely careful with one detail and not careful at all with another?sounds like two people again.

When picturing in my head PR being the one to put on the too big underwear - I imagine that it was the easier thing to do rather than go up to her room and search for underwear - clean underwear and that PR just knew those were there and used them. MO - both being lazy put picking out the right date.
 
So you mean she wanted JB to be the perfect beauty queen only in public?
Why dressing her like that when they burried her then,the silly crown and stuff.Her funeral was a show too,why didn't it matter in the staging then.Staging is about appearances.Someone was careful enough to pick out the wednesday pair but wasn't paying attention to the size?extremely careful with one detail and not careful at all with another?sounds like two people again.


or maybe the size 12 panties were some sort of weird offering to JonBenet? Patsy said she really liked them, perhaps she and JonBenet even argued about them when Patsy said she couldn't wear them. In death, Patsy would dress her in the panties, giving into JonBenet wish.
 
or maybe the size 12 panties were some sort of weird offering to JonBenet? Patsy said she really liked them, perhaps she and JonBenet even argued about them when Patsy said she couldn't wear them. In death, Patsy would dress her in the panties, giving into JonBenet wish.

No idea,so many possibilities,it drives me nuts.
I asked this but never got an answer,did LE find the remaining set ,where the large panties came from?
What was in the partially wrapped/unwrapped gifts boxes/packages??Interesting to know.
 
I have tried to also look at this from the angle of how would I do it. I think John is smarter than me anyway so if I could think of it he could too. Patsy the same.

Why not let the police find her body? It is much easier and the time of death being when it was, makes the parents look even less guilty. The house is searched and every room in the house including the wine cellar has been looked at. Fleet didn't see her in earlier search. Regardless if the body was moved there later as some have proposed, the wine cellar has been "covered" by SOMEONE OTHER THAN A FAMILY MEMBER. JR PR BR are covered as long as it was someone else who searched that area.

The longer it takes even days because of the odor to find her the more innocent they look.

Why? Because when the police find her body it will appear as if the killer brought her back. The home has been searched and the R's cannot be the ones to find her. The ONLY way to make it work is if someone else finds her body after the police have certified the house "clean". Once the house has been searched it will appear as if the killers brought her back.
In Johns" tell tale heart" do you think he found out that it was Fleet who searched the WC and not the police. Maybe he expected someone other than a friend, needed someone other than a friend to have peeked in there and not seen her or not seen her. Not only would the guilt of JBR be weighing on his mind but the fact that now he has to cast suspicion on Fleet he has further elaborations on his mind. No matter who finds her now Fleet is going to be investigated as he was the one to search the area.

OK if he is the killer /assistant what ever role he plays in an RDI, he has a great ASSET. An automatic investigation of someone not a family member. If Fleet didn't kill her then no evidence is going to point that way as fibers from him didn't get close enough to JBR to even see her. DNA unless he sneezed could only get on the blanket not on her body. (That sneeze DNA test didn't even exist back then). He gets the benefit of the doubt and he knows who the killer is so he knows his friend will be exonerated.

I see no reason to deviate from the original plan let the police find her. Stay with the our daughter has been kidnapped story as long as possible. Searches like were done for other missing children(outside the home). The FBI did say to look for a body and thought the parents likely suspects due to the RN note. Why didn't JR just do that. Demand searches be done, and the police in turn are saying yes great lets do that and start LOOKING anywhere. The longer that body stayed hidden the harder to pin a TOD too.The police finding her body better for everyone if an RDI is true.

I can't tie up all the loose ends as it requires such elaborate staging in the RDI's and the holes in their stories according to said scenarios make them leave out some of the most obvious things( things I would stage to cover up) that make them look guilty. Like JR finding the body.

I don't think guilt is what could have driven JR to find the body, to spare Patsy going through this anymore, the cover up has to go as planned or the risk is too great. Someone going to jail.
 
I wouldn't have written a RN(especially one that contradicts everything else).Would have called 911 "help,I just found my daughter dead(not in the basement,but downstairs somewhere),there's a broken window,help"
+a staging that screams pedo.(she was a target/beauty queen)
 
Patsy got her "beauty queen". She was laid out in that frilly pink pageant gown, complete with tiara and make-up. Patsy's words to BR as they looked at his sister in her coffin: "See, she looks perfect."

As far as Patsy's dressing habits, people who knew her said she never wore the same clothes two days in a row. The only time Patsy did that was AFTER the murder, because LE had made a point of questioning why Patsy was wearing the same clothes she had worn the day before as LE arrived to the home that morning (real reason? Patsy never went to bed that night and she knew police suspected that). SO- she went on CNN wearing the same outfit she had worn to speak to LE the day before.
 
We may be missing a very important point with these theories. If Patsy did the staging, she absolutely did not want anyone to think of her first. Think about it, if JonBenet had been found looking like the little beauty queen we have seen so much of, there would be NO denying that Patsy did the staging. I also have to think one or both of them had read John Douglas' book on profiling and then realized they had to hire him for their team or they would be exposed as the stagers. He was hired to point the finger away from them when he himself knew it had to be them. I don't care what he said in print and in public. Mr. Douglas had to know they were the culprits. Either that or everything he wrote about profiling was hogwash.
 
I have tried to also look at this from the angle of how would I do it. I think John is smarter than me anyway so if I could think of it he could too. Patsy the same.

Why not let the police find her body? It is much easier and the time of death being when it was, makes the parents look even less guilty. The house is searched and every room in the house including the wine cellar has been looked at. Fleet didn't see her in earlier search. Regardless if the body was moved there later as some have proposed, the wine cellar has been "covered" by SOMEONE OTHER THAN A FAMILY MEMBER. JR PR BR are covered as long as it was someone else who searched that area.

The longer it takes even days because of the odor to find her the more innocent they look.

Why? Because when the police find her body it will appear as if the killer brought her back. The home has been searched and the R's cannot be the ones to find her. The ONLY way to make it work is if someone else finds her body after the police have certified the house "clean". Once the house has been searched it will appear as if the killers brought her back.
In Johns" tell tale heart" do you think he found out that it was Fleet who searched the WC and not the police. Maybe he expected someone other than a friend, needed someone other than a friend to have peeked in there and not seen her or not seen her. Not only would the guilt of JBR be weighing on his mind but the fact that now he has to cast suspicion on Fleet he has further elaborations on his mind. No matter who finds her now Fleet is going to be investigated as he was the one to search the area.

OK if he is the killer /assistant what ever role he plays in an RDI, he has a great ASSET. An automatic investigation of someone not a family member. If Fleet didn't kill her then no evidence is going to point that way as fibers from him didn't get close enough to JBR to even see her. DNA unless he sneezed could only get on the blanket not on her body. (That sneeze DNA test didn't even exist back then). He gets the benefit of the doubt and he knows who the killer is so he knows his friend will be exonerated.

I see no reason to deviate from the original plan let the police find her. Stay with the our daughter has been kidnapped story as long as possible. Searches like were done for other missing children(outside the home). The FBI did say to look for a body and thought the parents likely suspects due to the RN note. Why didn't JR just do that. Demand searches be done, and the police in turn are saying yes great lets do that and start LOOKING anywhere. The longer that body stayed hidden the harder to pin a TOD too.The police finding her body better for everyone if an RDI is true.

I can't tie up all the loose ends as it requires such elaborate staging in the RDI's and the holes in their stories according to said scenarios make them leave out some of the most obvious things( things I would stage to cover up) that make them look guilty. Like JR finding the body.

I don't think guilt is what could have driven JR to find the body, to spare Patsy going through this anymore, the cover up has to go as planned or the risk is too great. Someone going to jail.

Since it was starting to get late, do you think it's possible that JR was afraid the LE was never going to really search the house from top to bottom? The Ramseys were anxious to leave the house and actually to leave Boulder. The longer this "wait for a call" scenario went on the worse things were going to get. I'm sure they didn't want JB to lay in that basement and start to smell really bad and decompose so badly that they couldn't have an open casket funeral. I believe JR started to think that they had hidden the body too well since at least two others had searched down there and not found her. He may have been thinking all day about how to proceed and finally just went and found her himself when Arndt basically gave him permission. I'm sure it was getting pretty obvious that the plan to have her body left on the porch (or whatever the plan actually was) was not going to work.
 
There are a lot of great, even fantastic theories I have read. It comes down to motive, opportunity and knowledge. So who has all three?

The ransom note SHOULD prove motive. In this case it has so much personal information pertaining to the Ramsey's finances, that it is more about knowledge. If it wasn't written by a Ramsey, who would have such intimate knowledge of his bonus amount etc. Also, there are some difficult words for a foreigner to be able to spell and mis-spellings that seem out of place. One other thing. When an event happens, involving a 'foreign faction', someone will take the responsibility, for 'the glory' of the crime, the notoriety and fear is what they are after. To me, this RN adds up to intimate knowledge of the contents of the goings on of the family. If there was an intruder, it had to be someone who had very intimate family knowledge.

Motive, obviously a cover up. If Burke was responsible for some part of this, there should have been prior clues. I have red many times that Burke hit Jon Benet twice prior with a golf club, that is not exactly normal childhood aggression. Children will hit, bite, pinch, throw things, but not usually hit their sibling with golf clubs! He was sequestered away from LE and was not questioned until much later, again, even though he was the only other person sleeping on the same floor as his sister. What were the Ramsey's trying to do? Protect Burke, themselves, or all three of them? As for those that say that Burke surely would have shown other behaviors of violence later in life;

1) We have no knowledge if he has or has not

2) The Ramsey's wealth could have bought Burke private counseling (even on a daily basis if needed)

3) The jealousy and favoritism he most certainly lived with was gone.

I of course wasn't there, this is IMO only, but motive related to J & P could have been to cover activities by John, Patsy, Burke or all of the above.

I truly believe the staging was probably done by J and the ransom note written by P. This meant they were both involved to their eyeballs and could never turn the other one in. As for their child, I don't believe they would ever let him take responsibility for a crime.

Opportunity. Certainly the three Ramsey's all had opportunity to commit the crimes, in all or part of. There was not anyone else in the home, no absolute evidence of a break in, No noise heard, with someone walking throughout the house and wandering through the house and basement, taking time to write an overly dramatic RN and leaving the trial notes behind. The Ramsey's have lied numerous times concerning the events of the evening. They didn't, for reasons only they knew, didn't allow Burke, (the only person on the same level of the house at the time), to be questioned immediately AND they went against EVERYTHING the ransom note said NOT to do, which if it were truly a kidnapping they would have at least tried to do more quietly.

J & P repeatedly showed that they did not want this crime solved. I heard John say in an interview, that the police should have questioned he and Patsy immediately, individually. Well John, if you felt that way, why did you make LE jump hoops, wait months, demand previous statements to be given to you first? That and your reluctance to ever be interviewed alone tells me a lot about your motivation.

Do I think that anyone will pay for this crime? Highly unlikely. I do, however keep hope that I am wrong and that the guilty person(s), will be caught and prosecuted.

Patsy may have been a slob, as some people say, but she would have staged her daughters death, the same way she orchestrated her life. She would never have put her in size 12 undies, or done anything to 'mar' her little princess. I wonder what J thought about P's choice of burial outfits? Even in death JB couldn't be a little girl, she had to be a beauty queen.
 
The reason no one can make sense of all the threads in this case is that we are trying to attribute "normal" reactions and actions to JR and PR. Abusers are different that you and I; Their actions are reprehensible and foreign to us.
 
We may be missing a very important point with these theories. If Patsy did the staging, she absolutely did not want anyone to think of her first. Think about it, if JonBenet had been found looking like the little beauty queen we have seen so much of, there would be NO denying that Patsy did the staging. I also have to think one or both of them had read John Douglas' book on profiling and then realized they had to hire him for their team or they would be exposed as the stagers. He was hired to point the finger away from them when he himself knew it had to be them. I don't care what he said in print and in public. Mr. Douglas had to know they were the culprits. Either that or everything he wrote about profiling was hogwash.

John Douglas tried at least to make a profile that makes sense.I always agreed that if IDI it was no stranger but someone who knew them and the house very well and it was about the family&revenge and not JB.
But what was their answer?
"It must have been someone you know".
"Ah we don't know anyone that evil."
End of discussion.
DUH.


It's a big difference between JD's profile and L.Smit's (pedo).They chose to advertise LS's.Why?
Because JD's put them in danger.They would have needed to dig deeper into their friends lives and there are many reasons why they couldn't do that.
With LS's theory.....it's a pedo.......there are tons of them,a needle in the hay.Convenient.
 
It happend with Douglas like it happened with the poly's.You can't come out and say hey I found out that my client is guilty.You try to make the best outta what you found out even if it's not what you expected.This is your job,this is what you were hired for.But JD's IDI profile was a pretty good one IMO,at least the part where he says it was NO stranger.Did they listened to it?NO.That's the problem.He told them BR is at risk,what did they do,ah but BR hates bodyguards let's forget about it.He told them it's someone close,ah but they don't know anyone that evil.etc
IIRC JD said himself that he was called by the R's to lawyer's to find out if JR could have done it,says a lot IMO about what the lawyers were thinking and what they wanted to be prepared for.Then their investigators,who were hired to prepare JR's defence ,not to look for the killer.
 
JD "I first became associated with the case two weeks after the murder. The Ramseys’ defense team called and asked me if I’d be interested in consulting on the case. Like the rest of the world, I believed that the parents were guilty(I'd so like to know why,guess a profiler doesn't have such an opinion based on media bs,right?so he probably had good reasons to think that) and relished the opportunity to crack the case. I told the lead attorney: “You can buy my time, but you’re not going to buy my opinion.” this is what I don't believe.I mean he was paid,so he had to come up with something that's in their clients favour


"I concluded that the Ramsey’s were innocent of the murder. Why? For one simple reason: JonBenet’s murder was far too brutal and violent to have been perpetrated by her parents. When parents kill, it is extremely rare(???) for the victim to be brutalized in the way JonBenet was. She was also sexually assaulted and, just before she took her last breath, her skull was crushed with a blow so powerful that, according the coroner it would have “dropped a two-hundred pound man.”


This is not the real JD IMO,cause this is bs.This is the paid JD.
 
This is actually sad.JR said so many times that he hired JD because he wanted the best people to look for the killer.But JD was hired to help in a possible legal defense.(you can hear it from their own mouths,I got tons of links and quotes). Two weeks after the murder!

Only this and it says it ALL...............sorry JB:(
 

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