Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #11

[Greg]

Hello all,

The vast majority of people on here seem happy to assume GBC and/or the Senior BCs are guilty purely on the basis of how they have behaved in the media since ABC went missing, the fact that he had at least one extramarital affair at some point, and a whole lot of unverified rumor and hearesay. GBC has been quickly summed up as a violent cheating liar and ABC as an emotionally and physically abused wife.

GBCs guilt is a sound theory based on what frustratingly little information is available to us, and you would imagine it takes up a pretty prominent position on the whiteboard of theorys at Police HQ. It is definitely the most obvious scenario.

But what is frustrating me is seeing anyone who remotely dares to suggest any other theory on here, gets immediately shot down in flames, under some guise of protecting ABC's beautiful legacy and bringing an alleged abusive monster to justice. As alluded to by another poster earlier, I can almost hear the clanging of the pitchforks and cries of the angry mob.

However I think the fact that Police have not arrested GBC (or any other BC for that matter), and allowed them to continue caring for the three daughters is significant. If it is as cut and dried as laid out above, with a history of DV as people have claimed (not sure where this has come from - haven't seen it in the media myself) then he would be in jail by now.

For those who feel an outpouring of sympathy for ABC, what if GBC is innocent and ABC loved him dearly? What if he is a really great dad? What if the two had worked hard of late to get their marriage back on track, only for it all to come unstuck at the hands of some other 3rd party? What would poor ABC think of the vast majority of people ready to string up GBC without a trail, robbing her daughters of a loving doting and innocent father? Just because it was the most convenient theory available.

This website seems to be all about sleuthing with a view to constructively analysing criminal theories. I think the GBC guilty theory is now well covered, we've all read it. But something tells me the Police moved on to other theories long ago.

How about some genuine sleuthing now by putting all other plausible theories on the table without prejudice to see if we can't find another angle on this?

Cue the angry mob!

Sounds Good, do you have any plausible theories that you would like to put forward?

cheers

 

[coolcat]

Yes. IMO, GBC's sister displayed nervousness and uncertainty.

As a psychologist, I do tend to closely observe body language, even when I'm having a casual conversation with a friend (I know, my poor friends, family etc!). However, there are a couple of things I'd like to say about this: Firstly, IMO, most people don't need a "piece of paper" from a university to prove that they can read another's body language - this is typically a trait that humans develop through their formative years, with some people being better at it than others (and, without wanting to sound stereotypical, it has been acknowledged that women are better than men at this!). So, for many of us looking at media photos/videos, we immediately get a "feel" for whether or not a person is being honest with us. The amount of information that is presented through non-verbal means makes up approximately 90% of our communication.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that we are only getting small snippets in time, of images of different members of the BC family. The problem with this is that there is always the possibility that the media is trying to sway public perception one way or another. So, if they want us "believe" that someone is guilty, the photos or videos that are published will promote that line of thought. MOO.

In saying the above, I still believe that GBC's one and only media interview speaks volumes. And, unfortunately for him, the image that he has projected in this video is very negative. MOO.

What spoke volumes to me was the fact that he never attended the Command Point nor did any of his family (Probably because the Dickies knew he had cheated on their daughter - But No excuse!) and also that he was at work of all places when he was notified of Allison's body being discovered....he has spent alot of time WITHOUT his children in all sorts of places and yet NO time was spent looking for his wife and the Mother of his children - The very same children that he professed to be Taking care of during all of this????? THIS IS WHY I AM DOUBTFUL OF HIS INNOCENCE!

 

[minni]

The Police have a job to do and they don't stop and think for one second of 'how much we think of her', or the next person to be honest.
They don't generally need to assist anybody or show appreciation to anyone for answering Qn's in relation to a murder. And certainly not to someone who has been having an affair with the spouse of the victim!

of course you are right on this point, whether they think much of her or not is moot. but they must have built some opinion of her character. still you're right, its neither here nor there. I just thought if she was assisting them and not a POI, it might have been mentioned by them that she has been assisting them. The media certainly put their spin on things, but I also thought they communicated to a degree with police. Thanks MH

 

[Hillsdon]

Hi, long time follower and occasional poster. This case has me on the edge of my seat, purely because I dont think that a murderer should get away with this. It just shouldnt happen in a civilised society. She didnt vanish into thin air.

I just tried to come up with a new theory, as I typed it got more and more difficult to join any of the dots together. I am sorry, but I believe that there is only one scenario, and that involves GBC.

 

[Mani]

What spoke volumes to me was the fact that he never attended the Command Point nor did any of his family (Probably because the Dickies knew he had cheated on their daughter - But No excuse!) and also that he was at work of all places when he was notified of Allison's body being discovered....he has spent alot of time WITHOUT his children in all sorts of places and yet NO time was spent looking for his wife and the Mother of his children - The very same children that he professed to be Taking care of during all of this????? THIS IS WHY I AM DOUBTFUL OF HIS INNOCENCE!

I agree but I also thought he stayed away from the command post so that he avoided being questioned by the locals and avoided public scrutiny re his reactions.

 

[LillyPilly]

What spoke volumes to me was the fact that he never attended the Command Point nor did any of his family (Probably because the Dickies knew he had cheated on their daughter - But No excuse!) and also that he was at work of all places when he was notified of Allison's body being discovered....he has spent alot of time WITHOUT his children in all sorts of places and yet NO time was spent looking for his wife and the Mother of his children - The very same children that he professed to be Taking care of during all of this????? THIS IS WHY I AM DOUBTFUL OF HIS INNOCENCE!

Yep, coolcat, his absence at the command post certainly raises doubts about GBC having no connection to, or knowledge about, ABC's disappearance and death.

I've tried to put myself into GBC's potential mindset at the time (i.e. my loved one is missing, presumed dead) and I just cannot imagine myself NOT getting heavily involved in a search, or asking the public for their assistance. However, if I had something to do with my loved one's demise, then I would probably be too frightened of the public glare; I would want to hide away from potential questions, stares etc. MOO.

So, when considering the above, I was definitely surprised to read that GBC attended the Brookfield Show. I wondered how he was able to place himself in such a spotlight, where he would inevitably have many people watching his every move, trying to listen in on his conversations, assessing his body language when hanging out with ABC's parents etc. Yet, at the time when many of us believed that he should have been in the spotlight (i.e. when his wife was declared missing), he was absent. It is all too incongruent for me. MOO.

 

[Mani]

Hi, long time follower and occasional poster. This case has me on the edge of my seat, purely because I dont think that a murderer should get away with this. It just shouldnt happen in a civilised society. She didnt vanish into thin air.

I have enjoyed reading your posts Hillsdon, welcome back. :rocker:

 

[wakeskate]

One thing is for certain about this case, the media and sites like this have managed to ruin one business (C21 Westside) and two careers (GBC and TM).
I know when I go to sell my house in the area I wont be using any of them (if any of them are still around). Not because of what they may or may not have done, but because of what others will think.

 

[kiwi50]

Something a couple of posters said earlier really got me thinking. It always puzzled me why GBC would have rung the police so early in the morning. Waytoo early. It would have been better for him and brought him more time if he was able to say he last saw her leaving for the conference, then call the police late Friday night, and let the police find her car in some wayout place, or over a cliff.
If it was a neighbour who called police I'm sure the police would treat it confidentially and not let GBC know who it was.

It fills in lots of gaps for me if it was the neighbours or a friend of Alison who rang the police. Maybe they did not only hear something but see something that worried or frightened them.
The police may have arrived unexpectedly, and like a poster said possibly did find GBC or another family member cleaning cars or vacuuming, especially when your wife's car is there but you can't produce her. Maybe saying she went for a walk was the best he could come up with.

 

[Ixnaye]

Hi, long time follower and occasional poster. This case has me on the edge of my seat, purely because I dont think that a murderer should get away with this. It just shouldnt happen in a civilised society. She didnt vanish into thin air.

I just tried to come up with a new theory, as I typed it got more and more difficult to join any of the dots together. I am sorry, but I believe that there is only one scenario, and that involves GBC.

Yes Hillsdon, ditto for me too. I really wish for those 3 young girls sake that I could put forward any sort of plausible alternative scenario but I just keep coming back to GBC and possibly one or both of his parents.

Personally I do not think any mistress/es were involved, I just can't see a woman killing another woman to be able to get GBC all to themselves. Any of his lovers probably know he is by all accounts in dire financial straits and while he is not bad looking (IMO) he is no Brad Pitt.

 

[Mani]

Just wanted to give a big shout to posters today regarding their knowledge/experience regarding rainfall and creeks etc.

The information the locals have provided us with regarding the creeks before/during/after Allison's disappearance helps us to paint a picture of what it might have been like during those times.

If my memory serves me correctly (is there an acronym for that one? lol) I remember one post saying that the Kholo creek was swollen and running fast past their place in the weekend directly after Allison disappeared.

 

[mountainhigh]

Yes. IMO, GBC's sister displayed nervousness and uncertainty.

As a psychologist, I do tend to closely observe body language, even when I'm having a casual conversation with a friend (I know, my poor friends, family etc!). However, there are a couple of things I'd like to say about this: Firstly, IMO, most people don't need a "piece of paper" from a university to prove that they can read another's body language - this is typically a trait that humans develop through their formative years, with some people being better at it than others (and, without wanting to sound stereotypical, it has been acknowledged that women are better than men at this!). So, for many of us looking at media photos/videos, we immediately get a "feel" for whether or not a person is being honest with us. The amount of information that is presented through non-verbal means makes up approximately 90% of our communication.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that we are only getting small snippets in time, of images of different members of the BC family. The problem with this is that there is always the possibility that the media is trying to sway public perception one way or another. So, if they want us "believe" that someone is guilty, the photos or videos that are published will promote that line of thought. MOO.

In saying the above, I still believe that GBC's one and only media interview speaks volumes. And, unfortunately for him, the image that he has projected in this video is very negative. MOO.

thanks for that post. really imformative. and yes you lot are extremely good at it....sigh sigh..i think its in your DNA..

moving along though, we have all spoke about 'that interview'.. I have often asked myself recently how I would react if my wife had been missing for 3 days and how I would behave in an interview provided i was innocent of courrse.

welll i guess firstly i woulddnt be lying in a freaking hospital bed with a sore rib for 2 days...pric*!

Without really knowing i suppose but I guess I would be very forceful rather than a little whimpy like he was (and even at that it looks put on!) because lets face it, you don't know that anything sinister has happened as yet (if innocent) so in my opinion and if I am like any other of my mates or male family members I reckon I would be like,

"listen i cant talk long because i have to go help find my wife and bring her back to our daughters, she was last seen on such and such, please come home darling if you are listening to this,,we need you"
right media get out of my way, I have to go search!
and knowing me I would also shout out to them, "yes and i know you think its me but it aint, so get that our of your heads right now"! (but thats just me)


i would refuse to believe anything bad had happened to her by day 3!!!
his demeanour had already accepted that!! wonder why..derr..

 

[Happymedium]

What spoke volumes to me was the fact that he never attended the Command Point nor did any of his family (Probably because the Dickies knew he had cheated on their daughter - But No excuse!) and also that he was at work of all places when he was notified of Allison's body being discovered....he has spent alot of time WITHOUT his children in all sorts of places and yet NO time was spent looking for his wife and the Mother of his children - The very same children that he professed to be Taking care of during all of this????? THIS IS WHY I AM DOUBTFUL OF HIS INNOCENCE!

I would like to know his reason for not attending Allison's Vigil Service...wonder what great plans he had on that night??

 

[minni]

when someone has an affair especially over several years, It tends to get talked about, whispered about, locals know, work associates know etc. This 'fact' that we know about GBC makes it very easy to connect the dots and assume that somehow this character flaw must be related to the extremely suspect disappearance and murder of his wife. Naturally.
If someone is having financial problems, someone who only a short 18 months ago, was considered to have the best real estate business in Qld, and therefore used to the lifestyle that came with the success, well, this is not something that is common knowledge through the grapevine. perhaps there are some telling signs, downgrading the car etc but all in all, it doesn't really warrant as much gossip. A man in this position would be looking for a way to get back on top.
Today I am looking into financial dealings as being the basis that brought about Allison's death. I have no fact, no idea and no reason to go down this path, other than to entertain other ideas not connected to the affair. On ACA they mentioned the floods as being the crucial time that things began to fall apart as far as real estate business went. A poster earlier said that the triads were buying up cheap in brisbane (can't remember but am going to find it in a minute), they were dealing with brisbane bikies (don't know which club). another poster said that her friend contacted crimestoppers after seeing a white man with blond hair and tattoo, wearing GLOVES on the roadside looking suspicious in the days following Allisons disappearance (again, I have to find the post and reshare it because I cant remember it exactly)so with these two suggestions in mind, I thought I'd take a stroll down this lane and see what I can come up with. Any thoughts or back up would be great...or laugh me right out the door, Im cool with any of the above!!

 

[Hillsdon]

Something a couple of posters said earlier really got me thinking. It always puzzled me why GBC would have rung the police so early in the morning. Waytoo early. It would have been better for him and brought him more time if he was able to say he last saw her leaving for the conference, then call the police late Friday night, and let the police find her car in some wayout place, or over a cliff.
If it was a neighbour who called police I'm sure the police would treat it confidentially and not let GBC know who it was.

It fills in lots of gaps for me if it was the neighbours or a friend of Alison who rang the police. Maybe they did not only hear something but see something that worried or frightened them.
The police may have arrived unexpectedly, and like a poster said possibly did find GBC or another family member cleaning cars or vacuuming, especially when your wife's car is there but you can't produce her. Maybe saying she went for a walk was the best he could come up with.

Hi Kiwi50, that has always concerned me as well. In GBCs eyes, she was only 1hr missing at the most when he spoke to police. Plus he hadnt had a quick look for her in the car? Plus why did the police act so quickly and in such a huge mannor? For these reasons I put credit to the theory that someone else notified the police and when they got there .... all concerned were shocked!

 

[Hawkins]

Food for thought. How do we see the world through the eyes of a sociopath?
"Sociopathic Tendencies Checklist

The trouble with these checklists is that untrained people may look at their loved ones or work colleagues through this limited list. This is unfair to anyone. Diagnostic categories are not definitive. It takes a trained person to apply them to formulate a diagnosis of character pathology. Sometimes someone may have some of these traits, but not all. All this information is contextual. Sociopaths usually end up before the Criminal Courts as murderers as HAWKINS has borne witness to.

Some clarification is due I think. From my discussions with psychiatrists and mental health professionals, sociopathy is something which can be observed and measured on a scale, like many illnesses and disorders. Whether a particular behaviour is sociopathic is both a matter of degree and of judgment. Like many mental health phenomena it tends to get used in both colloquial and professional senses. As has been said, we (including me) all should probably be circumspect in using the term. To label a particular person as a 'sociopath' I think should only occur after professional diagnosis. That is not to say that there are not sociopathic behaviours and traits that the average lay person cannot pick up on. We are often encouraged to look out for signs of depression in the behvaiour of loved ones for example. And there are some users of this forum who probably have a better idea of how some personality disorders really manifest themselves than the 'experts', because they have had experience with them on the receiving end. I couldn't condone the silencing of those voices on the grounds that they are not 'qualified'.

Some of the murderers I have come across have definitely displayed sociopathic attitudes and these just happened to be those who were more careful in carrying out the offence and who never made any admissions. I am not a psychiatrist and am not qualified to make assessments of any person's mental health. But, in my view, some of the circumstances of this killing, even without knowledge of any suspect(s) appear to indicate the actions of offender(s) with some sociopathic traits. I am sure that in the profiling of the offender(s) in this case, that people with far more expertise than I will have thrown that into the mix and it would be of no surprise to investigators.

If anyone ever goes to trial charged with this killing then it would probably be a very valuable experience for those who are interested in the forensic and legal processes to sit in the public gallery for the whole trial and listen to all the evidence. It would almost certainly be an open court. Testing your own perceptions, biases and opinions against what plays out in court can only be a good thing.

 

[Inanna]

so much of this is like a paradox...what sort of man would go along to a councellor with his wife, pretending to care whilst doing the things confirmed in the press? If it is the case, I am starting to really feel the sociopathic tendencies of this man....it gives me goosebumps

I'm at work so I'll be fast... IF GBC is a sociopath - he loves therapists. He can learn the "lingo" he can get a bit more clued in on his partners weaknesses & he can charm the therapist...
Remember IF he is a sociopath/psychopath he isn't doing "all the right things" - he is feigning doing the "right things"...

 

[Acer]

*disclaimer*
This could be due to the amount of fabulous painkillers I have running thru my body right now due to major surgery or it could just be me having a MOO

I woke up at 3.30 this morning to have a pee and suddenly thought "the girls.. There's something about the girls"

I tossed and turned for ages playing it all thru my head and this is what I came up with.

Child hears whispers of daddy's flings at school - parents talk kids overhear and share.
Child confronts daddy and he says it's all lies but people like mum and grandma (mrs D) might try to say otherwise.

^^ that point to me is important. Girls think the sun shines out of daddy's bum - doesn't matter how many ballet lessons, school functions etc my OH misses our girls still think daddy is their hero.

Child confronts Allison who in the most child friendly way confirms daddy has been hanging out with <modsnip>

Child does not want to hear this and pushes Allison in rage - push leads to fall and hits head or similar.

GBC assists with cleaning up the mess and attempts to protect child.

Someone once posted the perp is close to the family but unexpected.

Media reporting of affair also offers motive - yes the affair is true but we tried to protect child iykwim

This is all making sense in my head, I'm hoping others can piece together what I am trying to say too.


I think I may be in trouble for posting about a minor but I had to get it out of my system.

I understand what you are getting at but I do think that if the child pushed her, causing fatal injuries, then GBC would have called the police, ambulance etc.
No reason for him to cover it up the way they did- even to protect the child.
Easier to just say the child bumped against her by mistake.

 

[minni]

*disclaimer*
This could be due to the amount of fabulous painkillers I have running thru my body right now due to major surgery or it could just be me having a MOO

I woke up at 3.30 this morning to have a pee and suddenly thought "the girls.. There's something about the girls"

I tossed and turned for ages playing it all thru my head and this is what I came up with.

Child hears whispers of daddy's flings at school - parents talk kids overhear and share.
Child confronts daddy and he says it's all lies but people like mum and grandma (mrs D) might try to say otherwise.

^^ that point to me is important. Girls think the sun shines out of daddy's bum - doesn't matter how many ballet lessons, school functions etc my OH misses our girls still think daddy is their hero.

Child confronts Allison who in the most child friendly way confirms daddy has been hanging out with <modsnip>

Child does not want to hear this and pushes Allison in rage - push leads to fall and hits head or similar.

GBC assists with cleaning up the mess and attempts to protect child.

Someone once posted the perp is close to the family but unexpected.

Media reporting of affair also offers motive - yes the affair is true but we tried to protect child iykwim

This is all making sense in my head, I'm hoping others can piece together what I am trying to say too.


I think I may be in trouble for posting about a minor but I had to get it out of my system.

I think that if that were the case...the subsequent cover up is just too far fetched. The child wouldn't forget something like this, and it would be too difficult and unfair to try and coach her into bottling it up. If it happened this way, I would have thought it would be classed as a horrible accident and the child would not be held accountable? If he loved his kids enough to cover up for them, he surely wouldn't put them through this awful tangled web of lies IMO

 

[mountainhigh]

*disclaimer*
This could be due to the amount of fabulous painkillers I have running thru my body right now due to major surgery or it could just be me having a MOO

I woke up at 3.30 this morning to have a pee and suddenly thought "the girls.. There's something about the girls"

I tossed and turned for ages playing it all thru my head and this is what I came up with.

Child hears whispers of daddy's flings at school - parents talk kids overhear and share.
Child confronts daddy and he says it's all lies but people like mum and grandma (mrs D) might try to say otherwise.

^^ that point to me is important. Girls think the sun shines out of daddy's bum - doesn't matter how many ballet lessons, school functions etc my OH misses our girls still think daddy is their hero.

Child confronts Allison who in the most child friendly way confirms daddy has been hanging out with <modsnip>

Child does not want to hear this and pushes Allison in rage - push leads to fall and hits head or similar.

GBC assists with cleaning up the mess and attempts to protect child.

Someone once posted the perp is close to the family but unexpected.

Media reporting of affair also offers motive - yes the affair is true but we tried to protect child iykwim

This is all making sense in my head, I'm hoping others can piece together what I am trying to say too.


I think I may be in trouble for posting about a minor but I had to get it out of my system.

you need some sleep confuddled
OR
I'll have what she's havin....