Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #14

[UnfoldingTruth]

In my personal life I judge a person's character by what they do. It's hard for people to say exactly what they think and feel. Even if you consciously attempt to be totally frank, your subconscious has a huge bearing on the words you choose, on how you say them and on your body language. Skilled detectives seem to have almost a sixth sense for knowing not just when a person is lying, but what that person's body is saying.

Very true. There is often alot said in the 'unsaid'- body language and how things are said. And Police and Detectives in particular are very skilled at being able to pick up on all these subtleties and reactions to various questions. Its not always what you say.

 

[mountainhigh]

I believe records showed he has ceased trading so I would say he wouldnt be in a position to start up elsewhere.

Bayside, can you expand on this? I havent heard any referencce to 'records showed'. just curious what you mean here. thanks...

 

[linette]

Very true. There is often alot said in the 'unsaid'- body language and how things are said. And Police and Detectives in particular are very skilled at being able to pick up on all these subtleties and reactions to various questions. Its not always what you say.

Yes... some people can say so much, yet it means so little.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Couldnt give you a 100% factual answer on this CC, but I highly doubt that there is 'a business' to be 'moved' somewhere else quite frankly.

no staff left as are as we know
no physical premises that we know of
no listings (well nearly no listings)

Someone asked the Qn the other day about his rental role. I think you will find its insignificant. I don't believe it was an area that they concentrated on until just recently. you need hundreds of these rentals to make it worthwhile anyway. (But I bet even some of them are running for cover now also)

I don't think he will be running to reopen an office in kenmore, brookfield area anytime soon.

I highly doubt it is being moved also. But obviously don't know for sure.

 

[Watsonian Institute]

Missed the meaning? All of this is happening within The Law as each and every one of us is entitled to hold an opinion about these things - as long as we state that it is our opinion only.

Fuskier, the point is that that statement is actually incorrect. People may wish it to be otherwise, but in all truth, the only defence you could use is honest opinion and fair comment. However, people can't just add IMO or JMO to a statement and be covered, and it is very concerning to see that people still seem to hold fast to this idea, despite warnings.

There are very specific underlying facts that need to be proved in order to use the appropriate defamation defence.

Here is another link that might be useful: https://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html

Cheers

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Yes... some people can say so much, yet it means so little.

lol.. Do I have a complex..are you referring to me? (I know I waffle sometimes ;P)

 

[Fuskier]

It's your lucky day, linette. It's called the Queensland Criminal Code: http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/ACTS/1995/95AC037.pdf

Cheers

Sans IMO, AAMOF

WATSONIAN INSTITUTE: Thanks for reminding us that there is a leglislated Criminal Code in QLD. However, we have been learning the finer things about it also from a very learned contributor over these threads, about the criminal process, evidence, beyond reasonable doubt, prosecution and defence lawyers strategies, etc. We have learned that it can also be a flawed system, in that, sometimes the innocent are found guilty on evidence before The Court and sometimes the guilty are found innocent by evidence before The Court. Much depends upon the skills of the Lawyers handling the case etc. We have been developing more realistic expectations about 'truth' and 'justice'.

 

[Watsonian Institute]

Thanks Watsonian for all your info.

I think you'll find that the implied freedom protects anyone who wants to communicate on a political issue whether it be by writing, speech, protest. It is not just for politicians, it is for the press, anyone as I just noted above.

As for whether this is a political issue, that's more debatable.

The point I was trying to make was Hawkins use of the Rule of Law as a 'nicety' when in actual fact it underpins so many of the rights and freedoms we take for granted. It is a doctrine that has a number of principles attached to it such as against Bills of attainder and a whole lot of other things.

Apologies indogwetrust, I wasn't meaning to imply it related only to politicians. The different types of qualified privilege give a range of people a level of limited protection, but I agree - this case does not seem to be a political issue.

I also whole-heartedly agree that the Rule of Law is not a "nicety".

Cheers

 

[linette]

lol.. Do I have a complex..are you referring to me? (I know I waffle sometimes ;P)

Hahahaha :floorlaugh: No way was I referring to you. At least when you 'talk' on here, we can all understand what you are saying.

 

[linette]

WATSONIAN INSTITUTE: Thanks for reminding us that there is a leglislated Criminal Code in QLD. However, we have been learning the finer things about it also from a very learned contributor over these threads, about the criminal process, evidence, beyond reasonable doubt, prosecution and defence lawyers strategies, etc. We have learned that it can also be a flawed system, in that, sometimes the innocent are found guilty on evidence before The Court and sometimes the guilty are found innocent by evidence before The Court. Much depends upon the skills of the Lawyers handling the case etc. We have been developing more realistic expectations about 'truth' and 'justice'.

I must say, that was well said !

 

[Fuskier]

Fuskier, the point is that that statement is actually incorrect. People may wish it to be otherwise, but in all truth, the only defence you could use is honest opinion and fair comment. However, people can't just add IMO or JMO to a statement and be covered, and it is very concerning to see that people still seem to hold fast to this idea, despite warnings.

There are very specific underlying facts that need to be proved in order to use the appropriate defamation defence.

Here is another link that might be useful: https://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html

Cheers

WATSONIAN INSTITUTE: Thank you for educating us on this important point. Anything I have stated is my 'honest opinion' which I believe to be fair comment. The reference is very helpful.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Hahahaha :floorlaugh: No way was I referring to you. At least when you 'talk' on here, we can all understand what you are saying.

:floorlaugh: SOmetimes I am not so sure that my 'talk' makes a whole lotta sense! AT least I can sleep sound now, knowing you weren't talking about my waffle.fftobed: Off to the land of nod..I hope.

 

[mountainhigh]

Hmmm... I think I recall reading a post today saying how it was up for lease... but he hadn't had permission to move... something like that. :/ Also, something about the naming rights of the building were up for lease?? Just what I remember reading.

he will have a lease, probably 3-5 years and I think he has only been in there for a year, so a long time left on the lease. In a NORMAL situation he would have to find another tennant to come in and take over the lease (sub-let), but until such time he would still be responsible for the monthly payments on the lease.

However under the circumstances and on compassionate grounds, perhaps the landlord has waived his right to demand the lessee (GBC) continues to pay rent until another tennant is found. Or perhaps the landlord may simply think that it could in the end prove a little 'futile' to receive rent mone from him???
:jail:

 

[Heyerdahl]

Yes EVERYONE in 'her circle' feels like this, its a 'big circle' with jagged edges and you can only really live on the outer parts of 'the circle' because its too arrad in the middle of 'the circle'.....the circle is called Australia!!

Too deep for me I'm afraid!

 

[indogwetrust]

I also whole-heartedly agree that the Rule of Law is not a "nicety".

Cheers

Yes, Hawkins comments didn't add up to me. It's been a while since I've read any of his posts but some of his early ones were really informative and seemed to be based in a working knowledge of the law.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone who knows the law as Hawkins appears to, could pen a post such as the one we're referring to.

I was rather taken aback.

 

[CJ60]

Hahahaha :floorlaugh: No way was I referring to you. At least when you 'talk' on here, we can all understand what you are saying.

Absolutely! no latin in your posts! Not quite sure of the point in that - other than it makes me look like the simpleton I am!

 

[CaseClosed]

Apologies indogwetrust, I wasn't meaning to imply it related only to politicians. The different types of qualified privilege give a range of people a level of limited protection, but I agree - this case does not seem to be a political issue.

I also whole-heartedly agree that the Rule of Law is not a "nicety".

Cheers

So, how long has the "internet" been around for access by normal households? 20 years or so? It's time that the Laws covering social media outlets like this forum and FB, for example, where adjusted to reflect that these places are like "holding a conversation" with "friends" in the comfort of your own 4 walls, where Freedom of Speech and privacy should be respected. Is there a precedent somewhere?

 

[Watsonian Institute]

WATSONIAN INSTITUTE: Thanks for reminding us that there is a leglislated Criminal Code in QLD. However, we have been learning the finer things about it also from a very learned contributor over these threads, about the criminal process, evidence, beyond reasonable doubt, prosecution and defence lawyers strategies, etc. We have learned that it can also be a flawed system, in that, sometimes the innocent are found guilty on evidence before The Court and sometimes the guilty are found innocent by evidence before The Court. Much depends upon the skills of the Lawyers handling the case etc. We have been developing more realistic expectations about 'truth' and 'justice'.

I agree that truth and justice are not interchangeable terms in the legal system.

I also believe courts will not refer to the expertise of internet contributors when making their rulings.

I would urge you to consider why people pay hefty fees for the services of lawyers who specialise in defamation. If it was as easy as tagging an IMO on to a statement, that would certainly put many legal eagles out of work. It is great to see you have been learning the finer things from a learned contributor. However I would urge caution when making assumptions about *any* person's background and authority to speak on topics on the internet.

Cheers

 

[imamaze]

I didn't know if this had been posted or not...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...truggling-office/story-e6frep2f-1226367888088
Gerard Baden-Clay packs up Taringa real estate business, office goes up for lease

THE future of Gerard Baden-Clay's troubled real estate agency is uncertain after his office was put up for lease and his staff left the business amid ongoing fallout from the death of his wife Allison.
Mr Baden-Clay's large Century 21 Westside office at Taringa was offered for lease, along with naming rights to the building, through the Knight Frank property agency last week. Key sales staff have left over the past fortnight and the franchise's website has removed references to the remaining team, listing only three homes for sale.
According to friends, Mr Baden-Clay was left with no salespeople and the business has only office and rental staff who have been assisted by his parents, Nigel and Elaine.
Mr Baden-Clay removed a trailer full of goods from the business yesterday. His lawyer declined to comment and the building's owner could not be contacted.

More...

The link about also has a good timeline of the case as well...

 

[mountainhigh]

Too deep for me I'm afraid!

ok, sorry about that.