Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#16

[LauraMars]

A huge thank you to KG1, who in the previous thread, was kind enough to find a link for me, re one of the reports with GBC's sister.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-baden-clays-sister-in-law-says-husband-gerard-baden-clay-left-completely-devastated-by-wifes-mystery-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711

I really appreciate it KG, as I was searching for that one to no avail.

Crazy thing is I have just realised it was the link I had posted myself when I requested help finding it - I had read parts of that article several times, just obviously not the whole thing lol - I'm such a wally sometimes!

 

[mouse detective]

yep they reported that she wore adult diapers as worn by astronauts so that she didnt have to pull over for a leak while driving cross country to get her target....lol

"During a check of the parking lot, an officer followed Nowak and watched her throw away a bag containing the wig and a BB gun. They also found a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, rubber tubing, rubber gloves, $600 in cash, love letters all in bags and in her car, the police said.

the things we do for love.....

:blowkiss:

I wouldn't be surprised to learn someone else is wearing diapers these days. He must poop in his pants every time he sees a police office heading towards him.

:behind::behind::behind:

 

[spratsmum]

I think, TM also had a quite strong reason to get rid of Allison. She could have conspired with somebody to kidnap and murder Allison, provided she knew a lot about her lifestyle, what she does, when, etc.

If Allison was indeed found with her knees bent, it could indicate that she was for at least several hours in the boot of a car.

do you think she did have a strong reason to want Allison gone?

There is a big difference between being the mistress and the good times that go with that role and being the step mother of 3 girls and the wife, helpmate partner of a proven adulterer.

He is not much of a catch in my opinion. A lot of women marry again for security and children, can't see either of them on TM agenda.

 

[Thinking]

I was just reading about the delay to the Corryn Rayney trial and read this little gem

'During the hearing this morning, Mr Edwardson said one of the things the defence was waiting on was a translation from Germany of computer data downloaded from Mrs Rayney's damaged Ford Fairmont, which was found dumped in nearby Kershaw Street in Subiaco.'

Considering Corryn's murder took place 5 years ago it is hard to believe this information is only just being obtained.

I wonder what data can ben gleaned from the cars used by the BC's and TM?

A local poster in an earlier thread mentioned that the satellite navigation history in gbc's car had indicated the car had been at Anstead on the night in question, does anyone recall this? Again, I'm not so sure about this being fact as it would be fairly incriminating if true (although of course they would still have to prove GBC was actually driving the car).

 

[marlywings]

My apologies in advance if this has been posted before, even recently. I thought I was caught up on everything, but the posts come thick and fast and when you have to go to work it makes it difficult to catch up.

ANYWAY. Can someone confirm to me (by providing a source or link) that GBC did NOT have an Accountancy degree and has lied about it all this time.

If it is true this speaks volumes to me as to his character and shows that he is a lier and a fraud from way back not just in the past few months of a failing business. I can understand being under so much pressure with owning your own business that when things start to get tight with no light at the end of the tunnel a person could stoop to lies and fraud in desperation. However, lieing and carrying the lies on for years shows far more deceitfulness IMO.

Personally, having gone to Uni as a mature age student and working my butt off to get my qualifications, it really annoys me that people can put out this type of c r a p and get away with it for so long.

End of rant.

There was quite a bit of discussion some time back on here about the "degree"...that he didn't finish the course/didn't attain the degree.

This has been posted numerous times...his "professional experience"...

http://www.yatedo.me/p/gerard+baden-clay/normal/4c2ebf5b0612eff57a455714b077cea3

 

[mouse detective]

do you think she did have a strong reason to want Allison gone?

There is a big difference between being the mistress and the good times that go with that role and being the step mother of 3 girls and the wife, helpmate partner of a proven adulterer.

He is not much of a catch in my opinion. A lot of women marry again for security and children, can't see either of them on TM agenda.

Does anyone know how old TM is? She might have seen GBC as a perfect father - the kind of man she would like to have as a father to her own children. Time may be running out for to have her own kids. Just a thought.

 

[Fuskier]

Motive - well there were a range of financial and relationship reasons.

...This of course, is JMO. If it is true, makes me so sad to think of how someone can be considered so disposable, and used as a scapegoat for everyone elses mistakes and failings.

...Have considered other options but I can't see anything unless the entire police case is wrong.

ITSTHEVIBE: Thanks for articulating ideas which correspond closely with my hypothesis: that financial interests and family relationshiip problems are fundamental here.
Allegedly, money was invested into the RE business from a few sources i.e. B-C parents (who had mortgaged their home in their retirement) and 2 works colleagues. A divorce could threaten the finances through settlement and child support payments. Allegedly Allison's name as co-signatory on important documents could impact finances in the event of a divorce. There is allegedly the Superannuation money belonging to Allison and an Insurance cover allegedly taken out for $600,000.00 on Allison payable in the event of her death following a 13 month waiting period which is believed to be up now.

Another factor is Allison's place in the In-Law family. Allegedly she had been replaced by TM who was accepted by the In-Laws and who had developed a relationship with the 3 little girls. Allegedly TM had attended social outings with them as a psuedo family unit. Surely after the alleged two/three years of relationship between Gerard and TM, OW would have known about TM, which makes her statement that "Gerard loves Allison" suspect in my opinion. This is only my opinion on sleuthing this case with known public information, not fact.

We can ask questions such as:
Who would suffer financially in the event of a divorce? Who was frustrated with the family name being tarnished and solved the problem? Whose way was Allison standing in? Whose greed calculated financial gain from a death deemed suicide or an unknown crime - which would make several secondary victims eligible for Victims of Crime compensation. Who would not want their parents to 'lose' the family home in their retirement? Who would want TM in the family and in the business? Would a divorce ruin the family image as well as the family/business finances? Who among the close others had become 'enraged' enough to take control of the situation and end someone's life? Had Allison become a 'scapegoat' for all the financial/family problems and became 'disposable' in the eyes of close others to the point whereby they could also benefit financially from her demise? Not beyond the realm of possibility given greed has motivated many a murder IMO.

Without extrapolating further, herein lies several other possible motives involving close others.
These are hypothetical questions only for sleuthing purposes.

 

[Thinking]

From previous thread itsthevibe posted....

[I don't know why, but i have always thought that Allison was thrown over the bridge, despite fairly logical explanations of how she could have been dumped further downstream and being swept down by the rain. I can't really explain it other than the position of the body. Also someone who lived very close to the Kholo bridge pointed out that you wouldn't throw a body 'over' the railings, you would put them 'through' the railings, which would be easier. Apparently the spaces between the railings/guard rail are very wide so the poster was saying you could fit a body through and it would be easier than trying to heave it over. Alternatively I think the body was placed there by the murderer, with assistance.]

When I first looked at the bridge photos & where Allison's body was underneath it...my first thoughts were that she'd been thrown over the side of the bridge. But those banks of the creek seem very steep & it seems quite a height from the top of the bridge. I think if her body was thrown from that height it would have rolled further down the bank & possibly into the creek...keeping in mind at that stage there hadn't been much rain for some time so the banks would have been quite dry & not muddy.

I remember one local saying how the creek becomes a raging torrent when there's a deluge of rain...like there was the weekend just prior to Allison's body being found. Plus he/they would be taking a huge risk of being seen stopped near or on the bridge if another car travelled past. Also..the cars were four wheel drives...easy to go off-road so they'd remain unseen.

So now I think her body was dumped further up stream somewhere near the scout grounds...which I think is where police seemed to be concentrating their searches after Allison's body was found.

MW I'm leaning more towards your line of thinking on this too - however, out of interest, I am not so firm in my thinking after seeing that report about the captiva drivers. Didn't the woman interviewed say that the police had asked her if she had parked her car near the kholo creek bridge that night? Which makes me wonder if a car was sighted parked there. Sorry, will try to find link to the article I mean.

 

[spratsmum]

Does anyone know how old TM is? She might have seen GBC as a perfect father - the kind of man she would like to have as a father to her own children. Time may be running out for to have her own kids. Just a thought.

I seem to remember that she is old than GBC, he is 41, so perhaps 43/44. I think she has grown up children, not certain of that, but it does seem to be tucked in the back recesses of my memory.

 

[marlywings]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm sticking to GBC as the main suspect. Too much evidence points to him whether it is local gossip or media related information based on police fact. I think that the idea of the BC's assisting in the disposal of the body is far more believable than a hired killer who killed ABC as she was some secret multi-lingual intelligence agent. He has the means, the motive and the opportunity. Nothing else really makes as much sense. The idea that TM was involved does not sit either. If she were so confrontational, why would she have quit century 21 as soon as the affair had been exposed. No she is not quite the homicidal queen Bee that fits the profile. This stinks of domesticity gone wrong. IMO.

Yes I agree...have pretty much thought that since day 1...then with all the rumours on here about domestic violence I can't see it as being anything else. It could have quite possibly been booze fuelled too....which so many of them are.

 

[grannie]

He is not much of a catch in my opinion. A lot of women marry again for security and children, can't see either of them on TM agenda.

I agree with you. I would not give him a time of a day. But you are coming from the position of a sensible person. Sensible people do not commit murders. We do not have a clinical history of either GBC, his father or TM. Who knows what that could offer..

 

[spratsmum]

ITSTHEVIBE: Thanks for articulating ideas which correspond closely with my hypothesis: that financial interests and family relationshiip problems are fundamental here.
Allegedly, money was invested into the RE business from a few sources i.e. B-C parents (who had mortgaged their home in their retirement) and 2 works colleagues. A divorce could threaten the finances through settlement and child alimony. Allegedly Allison's name as co-signatory on important documents could impact finances in the event of a divorce. There is allegedly the Superannuation money belonging to Allison and an Insurance cover allegedly taken out for $600,000.00 on Allison payable in the event of her death following a 13 month waiting period which is believed to be up now.

Another factor is Allison's place in the In-Law family. Allegedly she had been replaced by TM who was accepted by the In-Laws and who had developed a relationship with the 3 little girls. Allegedly TM had attended social outings with them as a psuedo family unit. Surely after the alleged two/three years of relationship between Gerard and TM, OW would have known about TM, which makes her statement that "Gerard loves Allison" suspect in my opinion. This is only my opinion on sleuthing this case with known public information, not fact.

We can ask questions such as:
Who would suffer financially in the event of a divorce? Who was frustrated with the family name being tarnished and solved the problem? Whose way was Allison standing in? Whose greed calculated financial gain from a death deemed suicide or an unknown crime - which would make several secondary victims eligible for Victims of Crime compensation. Who would not want their parents to 'lose' the family home in their retirement? Who would want TM in the family and in the business? Would a divorce ruin the family image as well as the family/business finances? Who among the close others had become 'enraged' enough to take control of the situation and end someone's life? Had Allison become a 'scapegoat' for all the financial/family problems and became 'disposable' in the eyes of close others to the point whereby they could also benefit financially from her death? Not beyond the realm of possibility given greed has motivated many a murder IMO.

Without extrapolating further, herein lies several other possible motives involving close others.
These are hypothetical questions only for sleuthing purposes.

there is so much thought in this article and it is very well written= thank you Fusker.

Just replying to one small part of it though, what type of family "welcomes" the mistress, when there son is still married and supposedly living with his wife. Surely any decent parent would sit there adult child down and have a conversation about what is going on. Similarly if I was the mistress I wouldn't want to be at family events and as for building a relationship with the young girls, if my husband did this it might happen once but I would never let it happen again.

In my mind there is a difference in being the mistress as opposed to the prospective alternative wife. As the BC's were still living together and putting on a family persona, then I don't see TM fitting with that image.

My ideas are probably old fashioned, but is their no moral code here. Olivia Walton is married to a minister, surely that counts for something.

 

[Fuskier]

Just rethinking possible motives if this crime was premeditated.

1. Life insurance. Why would someone be so obvious and take out a recent life ins policy for what could be perceived as relevantly piddling amounts (rumours from $250k to $600k)?
Maybe it was to 'topup' existing policies? As given the reported mortgage drawn upon Nigelaine's home of $300k? Wonder if GBC had similar 'keyman' insurance taken out at same time?
2. Until potential beneficiaries are fully excluded as persons of interest, no Ins Coy is going to pay out anything in the near future.
3. Property settlement issues - looks to me there may not be much to split, given their financial situation other than whatever financial interest remained in the business. After payback of family loan, payout of staff entitlements, ATO obligations, breaking of commercial lease etc could not be much..
4. Children.
5. New 'happy family' with potential new partner well accepted by GBC family and no 'reminder' around to make someone's fantasy awkward. More sympathy for GBC as a widower trying to raise those 3 little girls 'on his pwn' than being like everyone else having shared care arrangements and arguments over child support etc.

These are just my rambling 3am thoughts and just speculation.

WOOMBITE: I was not on the site last night, so this morning my timing is a little slow as I attempt to catch up. I read Inthevibe's post and responded. I then went back and read yours. Good post. Sounds possible.

 

[grannie]

They also found a steel mallet, a 4-inch folding knife, rubber tubing, rubber gloves, $600 in cash, love letters all in bags and in her car

That's right. All common ladies accessories..

 

[marlywings]

MW I'm leaning more towards your line of thinking on this too - however, out of interest, I am not so firm in my thinking after seeing that report about the captiva drivers. Didn't the woman interviewed say that the police had asked her if she had parked her car near the kholo creek bridge that night? Which makes me wonder if a car was sighted parked there. Sorry, will try to find link to the article I mean.

Yes I think this is the one...

May 28, 2012

POLICE are questioning western suburbs residents with cars similar to those driven by Gerard Baden-Clay about their movements on the night the real-estate identity's wife disappeared.
The Courier-Mail understands one local woman, who owns a silver Holden Captiva, was questioned at the weekend on whether she had driven through the Kenmore roundabout at the intersection of Moggill and Brookfield roads on Thursday, April 19 - the night Mrs Baden-Clay was last seen alive.

In an apparent bid to clarify reported sightings and rule out various vehicles in the area, the woman was also asked whether she had recently pulled her car over to the side of Mt Crosby Rd.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...llisons-murderer/story-e6freoof-1226368676196

Though I still wonder why all the searching seemed to be going on up around the scout camp area.

 

[LauraMars]

when i first looked at the bridge photos & where allison's body was underneath it...my first thoughts were that she'd been thrown over the side of the bridge. But those banks of the creek seem very steep & it seems quite a height from the top of the bridge. I think if her body was thrown from that height it would have rolled further down the bank & possibly into the creek...keeping in mind at that stage there hadn't been much rain for some time so the banks would have been quite dry & not muddy.

I remember one local saying how the creek becomes a raging torrent when there's a deluge of rain...like there was the weekend just prior to allison's body being found. Plus he/they would be taking a huge risk of being seen stopped near or on the bridge if another car travelled past. Also..the cars were four wheel drives...easy to go off-road so they'd remain unseen.

So now i think her body was dumped further up stream somewhere near the scout grounds...which i think is where police seemed to be concentrating their searches after allison's body was found.

I've always thought it more likely that Allison's body was placed further upstream too, either in or near the water.

I'm not sure if her body was found directly underneath the bridge, but if so, I think it would be really hard to throw a body off the bridge, yet have it land under the bridge, and a lot more risk of someone seeing you, whereas up nearer the scout camp seems a lot more secluded, and you'd have more time.

I remember that very wet weekend just before she was found, and being annoyed with the rain, but then thinking maybe somehow it might help with the discovery of her body, and praying that it would. I felt she'd been placed in or near water. I was also worried though that the rain might hinder discovery, due to washing the body away forever, eg. into the Brissy river.

The bridge is so close to the Brisbane river, so it's a small miracle that she was found, as awful as that discovery was.

RIP Allison

All IMO

 

[grannie]

If she were so confrontational, why would she have quit century 21 as soon as the affair had been exposed.

Because it affects business.

 

[spratsmum]

That's right. All common ladies accessories..

Is that why my handbag is so heavy?

 

[Fuskier]

I think, TM also had a quite strong reason to get rid of Allison. She could have conspired with somebody to kidnap and murder Allison, provided she knew a lot about her lifestyle, what she does, when, etc.

If Allison was indeed found with her knees bent, it could indicate that she was for at least several hours in the boot of a car.

GRANNY: Thats another possibility about the bent knees. There was a post in thread 13 with a link about what happen to a human body when placed in water, how it bloats with gases in 3-7 days, floats with head down, knees bent etc. That could be an alternative possibility, that when the water under the bridge receded, she was left on the bank in the position the water left her.

 

[Keentoknow]

A huge thank you to KG1, who in the previous thread, was kind enough to find a link for me, re one of the reports with GBC's sister.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/allison-baden-clays-sister-in-law-says-husband-gerard-baden-clay-left-completely-devastated-by-wifes-mystery-disappearance/story-e6freoof-1226338290711

I really appreciate it KG, as I was searching for that one to no avail.

Crazy thing is I have just realised it was the link I had posted myself when I requested help finding it - I had read parts of that article several times, just obviously not the whole thing lol - I'm such a wally sometimes!

Thanks for link Laura Mars.


Here is another one where GBC's sister claims that GBC face was scratched because of a fall that he had. ????????

http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/29087181/police-search-husbands-office-for-clues/