Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[DingDing7]

Now that is a sensible post. Read it slowly, read it again and understand it. Then move on.

As I've mentioned b4 he, in more recent pics looks dystonic and somewhat oedemic and I would like to know his medical and psychiatric history and am wondering if he is on anti-psychotics? High blood pressure meds?

 

[BReVeTTe]

Agree with both points. I think the reason 'this one' hasn't quite gone away is that it was reported that LWs brother was asked by police something such as 'have you ever seen LW dressed as a woman?' If this is true, then I imagine there *might* have been some kind of cross dressing element to the crime. *Maybe*. I just don't know why they'd have asked that otherwise, but then I'm not a homicide detective.

I suppose also that since the dropped kimono was linked to BRE, this potential element has even more momentum.

apparently unidentified item(s) of clothing were found with the discovered victims. I don't know any more than that, or whether it is actual fact, but if the kimono was taken from one event and 'dropped' at another, it could be part of the killer's ongoing behaviour, ie. souvenir an item from one incident and use it at the next (although not necessarily in any order)


[emoji887]

 

[BReVeTTe]

Thanks, I just offered information on the Conti/Claremont bar. There's was and is a back entrance. I've been drilled about it and been provided with links to a drawing that is not accurate. In my defence, and for all it's worth, maybe nothing, there is, was and always has been a back entrance to the venue. In my days working in bands - as I've said, you loaded from the back, no one asked what you were doing... if you were there doing something, it was a given you were suppose to be there. Chefs, staff, bands and sometimes patrons made their way out the back.... we all assumed we were there for a reason..... no one checked us... no one asked.. might be irrelevant, but after being drilled about it, I just wanted to reiterate... people had access from the back door.

I gathered when you didn't reply that you probably had a life you were tending and that you'd be back later. All good.
I'm also familiar with bands and back doors at venues, with being recognised and accepted as one of the team, and the fact that no one would have batted an eye if you had a mate in tow if you looked familiar.
For all the angst concerning the resurfacing of old topics that some had decided were discussed to death, it does go to show that new eyes can sometimes lead to discussion on old topics resulting in new information.
What greater testimony to that than the most recent of investigators who have delivered an alleged perpetrator on existing evidence rather than on nothing but suspicion.
Whether others think it important or not, we've established that there were seemingly some discrepancies with the previous floor plan, and that there is, and more importantly WAS, a back exit that could be utilised by staff without (too much) scrutiny.
phew, I got it out.
If you are able to amend and upload a rough layout,
I for one - and I know there are others - would still appreciate your effort. Perhaps take a photo of a sketch on paper - I wouldn't be at all concerned with any recent bar tending improvements
cheers Maz [emoji1360] and TiA
There's been a lot of emotion on here during the past few days.
Since the heat's turned up, tempers have run from warm to very hot, everyone's feeling impatient wanting to know what's going on.
Some users are taking a necessary break. I may even take one too.


[emoji887]

 

[JoeDetective]

3. The surveillance of L.W., The Police went to the Parliament and asked for additional money to continue surveillance. They would have has to have sufficient cause to justify the 10 million dollars they were allocated. Although we are unaware of there reasoning it must have been apparently solid as they were successful..

He was picking up people(some have posted on here) and offering others lifts in and around the same area before and after the crimes occurred, not to mention almost certainly not having a solid alibi as he was a loner, additionally drove a white car and lived close by.
He ticked a lot of simple boxes but there was no actual solid evidence, if there was he would have been charged.



Additionally there was nothing linking him to KK, probably why the cops did not want to link the crimes, though most experts I spoke to were adamant there was no way you should/could possibly rule it out, unless DNA did not match, which we believe now based on WAPOL statements to not be correct.

 

[aspiringsleuth]

Continuing on from MrsNathanDrake, our court system is adversarial (so the 'adversaries', if you wish to see it like that, are the prosecution and defence), and the burden of proof rests on the prosecution (beyond reasonable doubt). The defence doesn't have to prove their clients innocence- just create reasonable doubt..
So whichever side wins, is essentially up to the prosecution's ability to establish facts beyond a reasonable doubt... however it is not unheard of for the both sides to be 'blindsided' by the introduction of witnesses, etc.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

FYI: I have a contact who is a relative of the lad who discovered CG's body. With some hesitation, I can potentially find out more information regarding the specifics of the CG site at the time of discovery. However, I'm not sure how helpful that would be in the grand scheme of things beyond what is already public knowledge other than theorising over the psychology behind the choice of dump site.

Personally, I'm leaning towards the areas being chosen due to a previous familiarity with the area/access routes from his work life and/or knowledge of fishing spots or accessible illegal dumping spots. These are the three most logical explanations, particularly in relation to Pipidinny Road (which I am currently virtually revisiting on street view - what a wonderful thing technology is).

It really is such a desolate and lonely place. Completely devoid of infrastructure for the most part (although I note there is an image of what appears to be technicians of some description with a utility working at some kind of structure - possibly related to future land releases). One would have to be quite callous to dump a body in such a manner in such a location. It really is very indicative of a person completely removed of empathy and with nil emotional attachment to the victim or the crime itself.

Before I speculate and theorise any further I'd like to say this: I'm as eager as the next person for SS to be found, at least for closure if not justice too. However, we also need to remind ourselves that the likely truth is, sadly SS may never be found without a confession. There hasn't been any real revelations since the arrest that give much or any clue that narrows down any location more likely than before the arrest. However, it's a given that a location is going to be speculated with fresh perspective now that there is someone charged in relation to JR and CG and a connection between those two has been allegedly proven. Now to resume the speculating...

I'm still in two minds over whether or not I believe the dumping grounds were pre-planned. The location JR was found is unique in that Woolcoot Road in general seems to be a more densely foliaged area than much of its surrounds. At night time everything would look the same out there, however pre-existing familiarity during the day would make this extra foliage quite apparent. Then there is the galvanised road barriers close by, where Woolcoot road crosses a drainage ditch. One could speculate that this little crossing served as a personal marker for the alleged.

As for Pipidinny Road, the CG site was at (what seemed to be at the time) a somewhat unique spur of sandy area immediately off where the parallel trail links with the road. Perhaps these are both inconsequential. Otherwise, for a third site assuming the MO was similar enough, we ought to be looking for similar criteria: Something unique about it in terms of access or a landmark; Somewhere that stands out with nothing but for a light source but a vehicle's headlights; Either besides a graded road, or a besides a gravel road not too distant from graded road.

 

[JoeDetective]

apparently unidentified item(s) of clothing were found with the discovered victims. I don't know any more than that, or whether it is actual fact, but if the kimono was taken from one event and 'dropped' at another, it could be part of the killer's ongoing behaviour, ie. souvenir an item from one incident and use it at the next (although not necessarily in any order)


[emoji887]

I think this might be being overplayed.

One of the questions the police had to answer regarding LW was how did all these girls agree to go with him, which I believe was their working theory not the blitz attack, an old lady offering a lift is non-threatening in the mid 90's.
I think its a fair question, if he did cross dress and was proficient at it then it explains how he may have lured the girls into his car.

 

[GreenE]

Good post TheSecondLaw. That was the word i was looking for...rat run. I remember that route also that you mentioned. I think the bodies were dumped in familiar locations to the killer. I'll do some digging around and see what route you may have taken from Freeway to Huntingdale and possibly see if theres any remote areas of bushland.

About the boat theory, one would have to confirm if the Telstra vehicle or the vehicle that the killer may have used had a TOW BALL. No tow ball no boat and one would assume it would be too hard to swap vehicles. It would mean more potential evidence.

Nice thoughts

1> can anyone confirm whether on not the 1995 Commodire the police seized was his Telstra car or another employer's vehicle?

2> it was earlier said BRE worked on the side in other electrical/communications related jobs. Is this confirmed?

3> have there been any proven other employers of BRE other than Telstra?

4> were Telstra vehicles using removable magnetic logos on vehicles regularly at this specific time

5> where would coaxial cable have been most commonly used in Telstra services?

Im curious about how that vehicle looked and what kind of cables might have been in that vehicle.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

I think this might be being overplayed.

One of the questions the police had to answer regarding LW was how did all these girls agree to go with him, which I believe was their working theory not the blitz attack, an old lady offering a lift is non-threatening in the mid 90's.
I think its a fair question, if he did cross dress and was proficient at it then it explains how he may have lured the girls into his car.

This theory sounds absurd on the surface, however that said - A driver with sinister motives only needs to impersonate being somebody who they are not (i.e. Cop, or even a different gender entirely) long enough to convince a potential passenger up until the moment that the passenger has taken a seat and closed the car door. I'm not so sure that this cross-dressing theory being bandied around holds any credence or relevance to this case and not interested in discussing it much further at this stage, but time will tell as more facts are revealed publicly in due course.

 

[isisaw]

This theory sounds absurd on the surface, however that said - A driver with sinister motives only needs to impersonate being somebody who they are not (i.e. Cop, or even a different gender entirely) long enough to convince a potential passenger up until the moment that the passenger has taken a seat and closed the car door. I'm not so sure that this cross-dressing theory being bandied around holds any credence or relevance to this case and not interested in discussing it much further at this stage, but time will tell as more facts are revealed publicly in due course.

This is a persisting rumour that has emerged in the last few weeks. From what I have been told, this originated from the word of an individual who lives in the same Kewdale neighbourhood and claims BRE was notable for some strange behaviours, one of those being claims that he has been witnessed wearing women's clothing. Utterly unverifiable gossip, of course, so make of that what you will.

I suppose it is interesting to consider such a theory in the context of the clothing theft link and the Kimono evidence but I think there is a huge danger here of fiction being confused with fact, defamation of character and should probably just be avoided. IMO, there is certainly more to be gained here from sleuthing possible links to known historic clothing thefts rather than theorising about highly dubious claims that cannot be verified and are based on literally nothing but Perth gossip that seems to thrive in the vaccum created by the silence and current lack of public information exchange in this case.

 

[BReVeTTe]

extract >...an old lady offering a lift is non-threatening in the mid 90's... I think its a fair question, if he did cross dress and was proficient at it then it explains how he may have lured the girls into his car.

I'v never accepted lifts from strangers, not even other women ... different strokes, I guess. I wouldn't usually pick up a female either, I mean you just never know who it could be. Now how TALL must he be, BRE? Has it been mentioned yet? I reckon he looks about 6'6"? and maybe 180? or more? sorry, I didn't mean to keep it going.
My baddest bad[emoji48]
I'v just seen Meticulously's articles covering the clothing.
_______________

A funny thing happened to me a while back - a very frail 87yo woman jumped right out in front of my car, she was thumbing a ride to the pokies -the Gospel truth- you'd have thought she'd know better at her age. She had absolutely NO idea who I was ...although I did recognize her from a nearby complex, so I gave her a lift and took the opportunity to deliver a very stern talking to.
Unbelievable, ha ha.


[emoji887]

 

[aspiringsleuth]

Hi everyone,

I apologise profusely if this query has been chased down before, but this has been confusing me for a while now.

CrimeStoppers/ the CIA documentary describe how JR's friends walked to a nearby taxi rank in order to get a taxi;

Jane and her friends didn’t enter the nightclub, instead they decided to catch a cab to a friend’s place where they would continue to party. As they got to the taxi rank near the Continental Hotel, Jane informed her friends that she didn’t want to go home and without any more explanation, she walked off back to the Continental.

Her friends jumped in a cab and pulled up outside the Continental and yelled over to Jane who was standing outside to join them but she declined.
.

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/jane-louise-rimmer/

If anyone has any knowledge of where this was located in 1996/1997 (or around the time of the CSK) I would very much appreciate it. I have looked on Google Maps, and in 2007 there were parking spaces (?) clearly marked for taxis directly opposite the Continental, additionally Google searches show a so called "secure taxi rank" opposite the Conti. I do believe that in the JR CCTV, you can see people hailing (I believe that they do hail the cab, it didn't look to me like they had called it before hand) cabs. If so, why not go to the taxi rank? (this is more so for SS) Taxis didn't like going to the Claremont area due to the abuse they received from the intoxicated younger people.

Also, I have read this a few times that SS had the night before she disappeared (so the 25th January) gotten into a cab with another woman and man, who got off with her at the Windsor. But she had called a cab from inside the Club, which she didn't get into (having gotten into and shared one with two other people)- so why not call one from inside the Club the next night? Also, SS left before her friends, as we know, and I'm assuming they got into a taxi- but how? I don't think I have ever come across this.
Once again I am sorry if this has been solved already. :tyou:

SaveSave​

I was just wondering if anyone else had questioned this?

http://www.watoday.com.au/zoom/arch...jbGVzLzIwMDQvMDkvMjQvMTA5NTk2MTg2MjE5My5odG1s

^ link to Steve Ross saying how he picked up SS the night before she disappeared

 

[user29]

Hello from a new poster, I have been reading through ALL of the posts over the past three weeks. I would like to bring up a few points. I was a member of WAPOL from 1986-2001, never having any dealings with the MACRO task force. I was doing country service during the relevant time,

1. <modsnip>
2. Has anyone any thoughts on there being male victims as well? Having looked through the lists of missing people in W.A., N.T, and S.A. of males during the past twenty years, there are MORE males than females. Several matching the known M.O. /

3. The surveillance of L.W., The Police went to the Parliament and asked for additional money to continue surveillance. They would have has to have sufficient cause to justify the 10 million dollars they were allocated. Although we are unaware of there reasoning it must have been apparently solid as they were successful.

<modsnip>

Not sure diverting away from one of the more interesting artefacts released by WAPOL is what i want - what i want

why did WAPOL wait so long before publising
what did WAPOL really hope to gain by publishing
what WAPOL didnt publish and why (its obviously been edited to hell)

i do agree everything /. anything said could be speculation until the trial - but that covers off most of the items on this forum.
I think there has been great progression on the video (gait / ideas) in the last few weeks.

 

[Sutton]

Hello from a new poster, I have been reading through ALL of the posts over the past three weeks. I would like to bring up a few points. I was a member of WAPOL from 1986-2001, never having any dealings with the MACRO task force. I was doing country service during the relevant time,

1.<modsnip>

2. Has anyone any thoughts on there being male victims as well? Having looked through the lists of missing people in W.A., N.T, and S.A. of males during the past twenty years, there are MORE males than females. Several matching the known M.O. /

3. The surveillance of L.W., The Police went to the Parliament and asked for additional money to continue surveillance. They would have has to have sufficient cause to justify the 10 million dollars they were allocated. Although we are unaware of there reasoning it must have been apparently solid as they were successful.

<modsnip>

Nice first post.

1. <modsnip>

2. I think it's possible, but not likely. Anyone specific you are thinking about?

3. I hope so. What was released to the media was not encouraging: he failed a polygraph, he went to a sex workers home during the day, no one could verify his middle-of-the-night alibi, he claimed a woman he went on a date with was his gf, he had the discipline to give up smoking, drinking and gambling, he offered a policewoman a ride, he always drank chocolate shakes, he 'stalked' women by following them with his car.

 

[aspiringsleuth]

Nice thoughts

1> can anyone confirm whether on not the 1995 Commodire the police seized was his Telstra car or another employer's vehicle?
2> it was earlier said BRE worked on the side in other electrical/communications related jobs. Is this confirmed?
3> have there been any proven other employers of BRE other than Telstra?
4> were Telstra vehicles using removable magnetic logos on vehicles regularly at this specific time
5> where would coaxial cable have been most commonly used in Telstra services?
Im curious about how that vehicle looked and what kind of cables might have been in that vehicle.

1> can anyone confirm whether on not the 1995 Commodire the police seized was his Telstra car or another employer's vehicle?
Can&#8217;t confirm that for definite, but some possible evidence that supports that:

#750, thread 10
Some timing confirmation regarding Telstra VS wagons. Text from a recall notice:
"In December 1995, a recall was issued for Holden VS Commodore wagons that were originally sold to Telstra fleets, fitted with Rhino roof rack ladders and in the product serial number range L818835 to L857194. For these vehicles, the Rhino roof rack was supplied with a standard nut on the ladder restraining strap instead of a Nyloc nut. If the nut came loose and the bolt fell out, the ladder could become unrestrained (PRA 1995/2648)"

2> it was earlier said BRE worked on the side in other electrical/communications related jobs. Is this confirmed?
Not that I know of, sorry- if anyone can confirm this, it would be great

3> have there been any proven other employers of BRE other than Telstra?
Not that I know of, no.

4> were Telstra vehicles using removable magnetic logos on vehicles regularly at this specific time:

The Weaver post #733 thread #10:
"Telstra Techs usually took their work cars home. A lot of those people were on call etc etc so needed continuous access to vehicle and tools. The thing with a lot of them was that the Telstra/Telecom logos on the things were often magnetic. Saved the cost of having signage removed when disposing of them. I worked for a large company in Perth who refused to have stickers put on their (extensive) fleet for the same reason. Without the signs it was just another white VS Wagon..."

Shinboner: post 712 thread #10
"My partner was actually working at a Perth Ford dealership around this time, and is certain that Telecom (as they were called) had a large fleet of Econovan vehicles, and more interestingly they also had a large fleet of XF Falcon Panelvans, which were used by their technicians. These vehicles were all serviced at the dealership as part of the warranty service schedules, and usually traded once out of warranty. The XF Panelvans were in production from 1984 - 1993. The Econovans have been in production longer from about 1983 onwards. These Telecom vehicles were white with both magnetic and stick-on Telecom decals."

5> where would coaxial cable have been most commonly used in Telstra services?
Short answer: Foxtel.

Longer answer:
The HFC would have involved it. HFC is the coaxial cable that provides Foxtel (by cable). In the 90s Telstra laid the cable to many houses across many suburbs (but not all streets in every suburb) to offer pay TV services.
"They were designed to carry PAY-TV (cable-tv) and developed by the cable TV industry to allow two-way, high-speed broadband content (video, voice and data) to be delivered to the home using a combination of fibre and coaxial cable."
http://www.itguyswa.com.au/hfc-hybrid-fibre-coaxial/
http://www.itguyswa.com.au/renting-a-home-did-you-check-this/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_fibre-coaxial

Hoping this helps you!

 

[Sillybilly]

If there are posts you find offensive or off-limits or crazy-making, use the Alert feature to let Mods/Admin know rather than filling up the threads with annoying posts complaining about annoying posts.

Please get back to discussing the case.

:tyou:

 

[AlwaysCurious77]

Do you mean this one Always Curious? I think it's a white 4wd ute with spotties.

Yes but in the image I am seeing you can see the front and back wheels of the car. Can someone please look through that footage and tell me I'm not crazy? I'm certain there is a car there.

 

[Wyke]

Yes but in the image I am seeing you can see the front and back wheels of the car. Can someone please look through that footage and tell me I'm not crazy? I'm certain there is a car there.

Not Crazy. This is from 00:04:19 (from the time-stamp within the CCTV) :

 

[lampformypath]

I gathered when you didn't reply that you probably had a life you were tending and that you'd be back later. All good.
I'm also familiar with bands and back doors at venues, with being recognised and accepted as one of the team, and the fact that no one would have batted an eye if you had a mate in tow if you looked familiar.
For all the angst concerning the resurfacing of old topics that some had decided were discussed to death, it does go to show that new eyes can sometimes lead to discussion on old topics resulting in new information.
What greater testimony to that than the most recent of investigators who have delivered an alleged perpetrator on existing evidence rather than on nothing but suspicion.
Whether others think it important or not, we've established that there were seemingly some discrepancies with the previous floor plan, and that there is, and more importantly WAS, a back exit that could be utilised by staff without (too much) scrutiny.
phew, I got it out.
If you are able to amend and upload a rough layout,
I for one - and I know there are others - would still appreciate your effort. Perhaps take a photo of a sketch on paper - I wouldn't be at all concerned with any recent bar tending improvements
cheers Maz [emoji1360] and TiA
There's been a lot of emotion on here during the past few days.
Since the heat's turned up, tempers have run from warm to very hot, everyone's feeling impatient wanting to know what's going on.
Some users are taking a necessary break. I may even take one too.


[emoji887]

Agree wholeheartedly BReVeTTe with the tempers running hot and everyone getting very impatient (with the legal process and each other!). We've waited 20 years for justice with this case, we can wait another 2 or 3 hey let the justice system all do their work? In the meantime let's concentrate on making a positive difference instead of negatively sniping at one another. We all CARE and want to HELP. There are many amazing minds on here, and everyone should be welcome, let's show mutual respect for each other, united we stand, divided we fall!:loveyou:

 

[meticulously]

Not Crazy. [/IMG]

Im having trouble seeing a car in the frame .but there are two lights ?

.