Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[petedavo.au]

I have 2 issues with there being something in this.
Firstly, the only thing the guy backed up that Steven Ross said was covered in the very first paragraph, that he had dropped Sarah where he said he did the previous night, in South Perth. The landlord claims he saw her in South Perth the following morning. There was nothing backing up anything else at all in their stories & there is no claims that backed up anything about the men she was supposedly with.
Not detailed in that article that Bret Christian would have been well aware of when he wrote it, & which we have discussed recently, it that the descriptions of the 2 men dont match.
SR: well dressed, tall, good looking, blonde man.
Mr Boudeville: tall, skinny, dark hair with curls at the back.

The second issue I have is that situation as told by Ross, isnt in that article either but it was detailed in others. The guy in his cab originally wanted to get out with the drunk girl in Dalkeith & he talked him out of it. Why then did he just allow him to push Sarah out, leaving the guy with her in South Perth when nothings open at that time of night. Makes no sense. Either she was happy to have him get out with her or SR did nothing to ensure that she was ok with it. Regardless, she was alive and well the following day and theres far more to indicate they were different men than the same man.
I know Ive written all this before but Im unsure if it was posted in the thread so I'll continue.
Id be interested to know exactly when this report was made to police & wonder if this Mr Boudeville either saw the MM video himself or knew of it prior to making this report. His description of the man is remarkably similar to that of MM. Or for a spanner in the works, even moreso matching Richard Dorrough. He died claiming he killed three women, who was the 3rd? Its possible he was passing through at the time of either of the first 2 murders. Just MO.

There's a few issues with this story that have been previously discussed at length in previous threads. One of which, is exactly what day the event happened? The witness Mr B from Jolimont. said he was hanging around the lobby in South Perth waiting since it was too early on a public holiday to go and collect rent. This might suggest that Mr R, the taxi driver got his days mixed up.
And of course the killer clown photo upon Mr B's facebook with one of his daughters taken at Claremont showgrounds is kind of spooky when you think that this killer clown has the same pennywise hair and make up used by Matteo Moroni's you tube channel DM Pranks, from which the accused purloined a picture of Matteo's killer clown to use upon his facebook page.

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[Frequant Flyer]

Aren't sociopaths masters of putting on a good mask in public? A bit of confidence, willingness to start talking and cool, calm demeanor, a funny joke here and there is all a person (particuarly a man) needs to get a woman's attention, at least initially.

I don't know that BRE is a sociopath , I have seen no reports of his mental status .... As I said I am only basing my view of him from what people who know him have said .... There is also a bit of a difference between telling someone a joke and getting them into your car at 2 am

I should let the female members answer that though , SS was 18 , BRE would have been about 10years older than her , driving a 6 year old Camry , I don't see George Clooney smiling back at me in his photos , so what were his chances ?

 

[janwa]

I don't know that BRE is a sociopath , I have seen no reports of his mental status .... As I said I am only basing my view of him from what people who know him have said .... There is also a bit of a difference between telling someone a joke and getting them into your car at 2 am

I should let the female members answer that though , SS was 18 , BRE would have been about 10years older than her , driving a 6 year old Camry , I don't see George Clooney smiling back at me in his photos , so what were his chances ?

That's why I think there were probably 2 offenders.just like in the case where the women escaped from the car and broke her ankle. Another oddity, there are no reports of other girls going up and down the street, didn't all the bench sitters and burger scoffers notice any one else get in a taxi. With 2 people they could lure and trap then drive off within minutes flick the back seat and begin the attack.All the poor girl could do was dig her fingers into any fabric she could feel. JMT

 

[Akai]

I don't know that BRE is a sociopath , I have seen no reports of his mental status .... As I said I am only basing my view of him from what people who know him have said .... There is also a bit of a difference between telling someone a joke and getting them into your car at 2 am

I should let the female members answer that though , SS was 18 , BRE would have been about 10years older than her , driving a 6 year old Camry , I don't see George Clooney smiling back at me in his photos , so what were his chances ?

Can only speak for myself as a female and female friends I have discussed this with, but an ordinary looking guy could definitely have a chance of sweet talking a woman into someone. If he's a good talker, charming, gives attention, appears interested - all of that suddenly makes him very attractive. Also, ordinary looking guys can appear less threatening.

Being older might work in his favour, too, as he might be a better manipulator of someone younger and a bit more naive. Some women have a preference for older guys.

It's very much a personal preference and situational thing as well. You mention Clooney - I don't find him attractive, but many others do. I don't know SS so don't know how she would have reacted to someone older charming her or trying to lure her into the car. But I think it's possible.


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[Bunnie]

Someone asked earlier if the taxi firm tracked the taxis riute... no, that technology wasnt available to us at that stage.

Someone else suggested that the lights going of was maybe a taxi picking up a fare... no. When traits pick up fares their to sign didnt turn off, it changed form vacant to engaged.

I've always ascribed to simplist theory is best. Any Perthite who frequented Claremont knew peoole started walking home along the main road after 1ish to try and hail a taxi, even if they phoned for one. Stirling Hwy was a main thoroughfare between perth and Fremantle and taxis travelled that when vacant to increase their chances of getting a walk up fare (no walk ups on the freeways).

A predator just needed to pull off into a carpark near the phone booth or the church in the dark and wait. A blitz from behind on a totally unsuspecting girl would take moments. He wasn't trying NOT to hurt her. Whack on the head with something, grab, drag, stuff in open boot, drive to cemetary or kings park and get her sorted then to wherever he did his work. A hard knock to the head takes a sore to recover your thought processes. Its not like in the movies where people take 5 or 6 cracks to get woozy. One punch deaths should give got a fair idea of his easy it can be to incapacitate someone.

 

[Akai]

I have 2 issues with there being something in this.
Firstly, the only thing the guy backed up that Steven Ross said was covered in the very first paragraph, that he had dropped Sarah where he said he did the previous night, in South Perth. The landlord claims he saw her in South Perth the following morning. There was nothing backing up anything else at all in their stories & there is no claims that backed up anything about the men she was supposedly with.
Not detailed in that article that Bret Christian would have been well aware of when he wrote it, & which we have discussed recently, it that the descriptions of the 2 men dont match.
SR: well dressed, tall, good looking, blonde man.
Mr Boudeville: tall, skinny, dark hair with curls at the back.

The second issue I have is that situation as told by Ross, isnt in that article either but it was detailed in others. The guy in his cab originally wanted to get out with the drunk girl in Dalkeith & he talked him out of it. Why then did he just allow him to push Sarah out, leaving the guy with her in South Perth when nothings open at that time of night. Makes no sense. Either she was happy to have him get out with her or SR did nothing to ensure that she was ok with it. Regardless, she was alive and well the following day and theres far more to indicate they were different men than the same man.
I know Ive written all this before but Im unsure if it was posted in the thread so I'll continue.
Id be interested to know exactly when this report was made to police & wonder if this Mr Boudeville either saw the MM video himself or knew of it prior to making this report. His description of the man is remarkably similar to that of MM. Or for a spanner in the works, even moreso matching Richard Dorrough. He died claiming he killed three women, who was the 3rd? Its possible he was passing through at the time of either of the first 2 murders. Just MO.

This reminds me of one of the major problems sleuthing this case.

The CSK was probably not the only person attacking women in the Claremont area (and certainly not the only person in Perth). Also not the only weirdo out there.

Plus there are people who come forward with irrelevant information, some of them well-meaning, some of them attention-seeking. Given the publicity associated with the Claremont disappearances I imagine that would mean more people than normal.

I suspect that a reasonable proportion of what has been reported in conjunction with this matter is irrelevant.

I don't think the taxi incident reported by the SR or the sighting by Mr B are linked to SS disappearance. However, I think they probably happened (maybe not exactly as or at the time SR reported it). It suggests to me that SS was quite a friendly, easygoing, trusting person.

It also ties in with something else. Though concerned, it's my understanding that SS sister and friends didn't report her missing when she wasn't locatable after the night out. It was only after she didn't turn up to work on Monday that she was reported missing. That suggests to me that it perhaps wasn't unusual for SS to spend time with someone unknown without notifying anyone.


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[Frequant Flyer]

Can only speak for myself as a female and female friends I have discussed this with, but an ordinary looking guy could definitely have a chance of sweet talking a woman into someone. If he's a good talker, charming, gives attention, appears interested - all of that suddenly makes him very attractive. Also, ordinary looking guys can appear less threatening.

Being older might work in his favour, too, as he might be a better manipulator of someone younger and a bit more naive. Some women have a preference for older guys.

It's very much a personal preference and situational thing as well. You mention Clooney - I don't find him attractive, but many others do. I don't know SS so don't know how she would have reacted to someone older charming her or trying to lure her into the car. But I think it's possible.


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My quote was just responding to a comment , the point I really wanted to make was that if he fancied himself as a pick up up artist he would have been known noticed and known , either for being good at it or bad at it , also his victims ages were not consistent , they got older

The clooney referance could have been anyone , the same as the car , it was not a current model BMW ... I say again , if he was trying to pick up women , he would have been known... I don't think for one second he got lucky with the only three women he talked to

 

[Frequant Flyer]

This reminds me of one of the major problems sleuthing this case.

The CSK was probably not the only person attacking women in the Claremont area (and certainly not the only person in Perth). Also not the only weirdo out there.

Plus there are people who come forward with irrelevant information, some of them well-meaning, some of them attention-seeking. Given the publicity associated with the Claremont disappearances I imagine that would mean more people than normal.

I suspect that a reasonable proportion of what has been reported in conjunction with this matter is irrelevant.

I don't think the taxi incident reported by the SR or the sighting by Mr B are linked to SS disappearance. However, I think they probably happened (maybe not exactly as or at the time SR reported it). It suggests to me that SS was quite a friendly, easygoing, trusting person.

It also ties in with something else. Though concerned, it's my understanding that SS sister and friends didn't report her missing when she wasn't locatable after the night out. It was only after she didn't turn up to work on Monday that she was reported missing. That suggests to me that it perhaps wasn't unusual for SS to spend time with someone unknown without notifying anyone.


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This is just a personal note , I do not think it is right to be implying anything about who the young lady may have spent Time with , unknown or not , and does this idea apply to all victims .... Seems to always be flavor of the month here to make them all the same
There is no need to suggest anything about this side of the their personal lives

 

[milamber182]

I don't know that BRE is a sociopath , I have seen no reports of his mental status .... As I said I am only basing my view of him from what people who know him have said .... There is also a bit of a difference between telling someone a joke and getting them into your car at 2 am

I should let the female members answer that though , SS was 18 , BRE would have been about 10years older than her , driving a 6 year old Camry , I don't see George Clooney smiling back at me in his photos , so what were his chances ?

My post was in reference to CSK and the generally accepted profile of serial killers, not BRE who is innocent until proven otherwise. This is excluding serial killers who use covert blitz method because their personality wouldn't be a factor.

 

[Akai]

My quote was just responding to a comment , the point I really wanted to make was that if he fancied himself as a pick up up artist he would have been known noticed and known , either for being good at it or bad at it , also his victims ages were not consistent , they got older

The clooney referance could have been anyone , the same as the car , it was not a current model BMW ... I say again , if he was trying to pick up women , he would have been known... I don't think for one second he got lucky with the only three women he talked to

Well you said that it was something female members should answer, so as a female member I was answering.

I built on the Clooney reference you used to make my point about different people having different preferences as to what they find attractive. I don't see how it can be pigeonholed that just because a person looks a particular way they automatically won't be successful in picking someone up. As a woman with friends with different physical preferences I know this to be true.

Moreover, I don't think that the CSK had to be a known pick up artist to lure women. He simply had to be a smooth talker in the right context at the right time. The CSK wasn't looking for a woman to take home for a fun night of sex; they were looking for a woman to brutally murder. Totally different mentality.

And as a woman, my personal experience is that a smooth talker can be very easy to fall for, especially when I was younger and had less life experience. (We were talking about SS specifically so I feel her age may have been a factor; the CSK may have become bolder and/or his approach changed subsequently with JR and CG.)

There are also people out there who have a very strong radar for who will make a good victim for their purposes.

Without knowing who the CSK is or anything about their attributes, we do know a few things from the situation:
1. The CSK was a predator with a heinous agenda;
2. The CSK was capable of abducting three women from a popular nightspot without clear witnesses or evidence of a struggle (not to say there wasn't a struggle, just no evidence of one);
3. The CSK has not let on what they have done in at least 20 years in such a manner that concerned someone enough to go to the police and led to an arrest;
4. The CSK was brazen enough to conduct the third abduction when publicity about a serial killer targeting women in Claremont was everywhere and police had formed a task force; and
5. One of the bodies has never been found.

What does that suggest if not someone with two very distinct personas, controlled, meticulous, determined, sinister and manipulative? That to me is exactly the sort of person who would know who to target and how to smooth talk (even if only because the CSK has managed to conceal the part of their personality that shows them to be the CSK for all this time).

JMO


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[Akai]

This is just a personal note , I do not think it is right to be implying anything about who the young lady may have spent Time with , unknown or not , and does this idea apply to all victims .... Seems to always be flavor of the month here to make them all the same
There is no need to suggest anything about this side of the their personal lives

Saying that SS spent time with people unknown is not a slight on her character. There's nothing wrong with that. Heck, I meet a guy in a bar and go home with him and don't tell my friends, and nobody would raise an alarm about me if I didn't come home for a weekend. It's something we do and a perfectly acceptable part of being an adult. Seeing that as a judgement is IMO what suggests there is something wrong with it. (I have also made a point of saying that I am not victim blaming.)

As for it being unfounded speculation, it isn't. These reports were published in MSM and I'm simply referencing them. The reported statement by SR makes reference to the fact that he thinks SS did not previously know the person she left the taxi with. That is spending time with someone unknown.

I would also add that speculating about what may have prompted SS, JR & CG to end up with the CSK is directly entwined with them personally (to a point), and this component has been commented on quite a bit. The CCTV of JR prompted the exact same speculation about whether she knew her attacker, was likely to have gone with MM voluntarily. Her friend in the CIA episode even said that she thought Jane stayed behind because she was lonely and wanted to meet someone.

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[Frequant Flyer]

Well you said that it was something female members should answer, so as a female member I was answering.

I built on the Clooney reference you used to make my point about different people having different preferences as to what they find attractive. I don't see how it can be pigeonholed that just because a person looks a particular way they automatically won't be successful in picking someone up. As a woman with friends with different physical preferences I know this to be true.

Moreover, I don't think that the CSK had to be a known pick up artist to lure women. He simply had to be a smooth talker in the right context at the right time. The CSK wasn't looking for a woman to take home for a fun night of sex; they were looking for a woman to brutally murder. Totally different mentality.

And as a woman, my personal experience is that a smooth talker can be very easy to fall for, especially when I was younger and had less life experience. (We were talking about SS specifically so I feel her age may have been a factor; the CSK may have become bolder and/or his approach changed subsequently with JR and CG.)

There are also people out there who have a very strong radar for who will make a good victim for their purposes.

Without knowing who the CSK is or anything about their attributes, we do know a few things from the situation:
1. The CSK was a predator with a heinous agenda;
2. The CSK was capable of abducting three women from a popular nightspot without clear witnesses or evidence of a struggle (not to say there wasn't a struggle, just no evidence of one);
3. The CSK has not let on what they have done in at least 20 years in such a manner that concerned someone enough to go to the police and led to an arrest;
4. The CSK was brazen enough to conduct the third abduction when publicity about a serial killer targeting women in Claremont was everywhere and police had formed a task force; and
5. One of the bodies has never been found.

What does that suggest if not someone with two very distinct personas, controlled, meticulous, determined, sinister and manipulative? That to me is exactly the sort of person who would know who to target and how to smooth talk (even if only because the CSK has managed to conceal the part of their personality that shows them to be the CSK for all this time).

JMO


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All of these theories offered up are just guess work , everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and ideas and I am entitled to fail to see the logic to them

If I wanted to work on percentages every theory, thought idea was wrong before BREs arrest and they will be wrong now , mine included , because nobody has a clue
Plucking ideas our of books never helped before and won't now , people are singing from the same hymn book so to speaks

 

[Pandit]

I'll go by MM in the CCTV because I strongly suspect he is BRE. He approached, showed the palms of his hands in a relaxed, friendly manner as if to suggest "see how open I am, I'm not hiding anything?" cracks a joke and Jane immediately relaxes and laughs. He's already there with Jane. If she wasn't there to meet him, I suspect she'd have got in his car for a ride home.

He's not bad looking, tall, fit and tidy. What he might lack in looks, he makes up for in other ways. And he's a chameleon, he blends.

My quote was just responding to a comment , the point I really wanted to make was that if he fancied himself as a pick up up artist he would have been known noticed and known , either for being good at it or bad at it , also his victims ages were not consistent , they got older

The clooney referance could have been anyone , the same as the car , it was not a current model BMW ... I say again , if he was trying to pick up women , he would have been known... I don't think for one second he got lucky with the only three women he talked to

 

[El Gordo]

There always seems to be the same sorts of groups in forums like this

There are those who read the literature associated with serial killers , profiling etcetera ... they then post links to support their case , which seems to be based on the literature they link to , strange that

For every book written there will be one with a counter argument , for every google link there will be one with a counter argument

I am not including media links relating to the case in this

Then there are those who attempt some original thought , I prefer these people as there may be a new idea , even the most outrages claims make you think differently , which is what is needed if anything is to come from these forums , otherwise its just the same old same old on permanent rote

 

[Pandit]

I like your thoughts but this site often requires media or study links to support claims. If you're to challenge the current thinking, they sometimes help or risk having your post deleted by the mods.

There always seems to be the same sorts of groups in forums like this

There are those who read the literature associated with serial killers , profiling etcetera ... they then post links to support their case , which seems to be based on the literature they link to , strange that

For every book written there will be one with a counter argument , for every google link there will be one with a counter argument

I am not including media links relating to the case in this

Then there are those who attempt some original thought , I prefer these people as there may be a new idea , even the most outrages claims make you think differently , which is what is needed if anything is to come from these forums , otherwise its just the same old same old on permanent rote

 

[El Gordo]

I like your thoughts but this site often requires media or study links to support claims. If you're to challenge the current thinking, they sometimes help or risk having your post deleted by the mods.

I appreciate that posting links is a requirement , media links are great , I cannot see the point of posting links to things that only show someone's thoughts are not original at all , they are quoting what another thinks , I would make exemptions to this if things were specifically written about the case but they are not , usually they are not even about this country or hemisphere

 

[lampformypath]

Well you said that it was something female members should answer, so as a female member I was answering.

I built on the Clooney reference you used to make my point about different people having different preferences as to what they find attractive. I don't see how it can be pigeonholed that just because a person looks a particular way they automatically won't be successful in picking someone up. As a woman with friends with different physical preferences I know this to be true.

Moreover, I don't think that the CSK had to be a known pick up artist to lure women. He simply had to be a smooth talker in the right context at the right time. The CSK wasn't looking for a woman to take home for a fun night of sex; they were looking for a woman to brutally murder. Totally different mentality.

And as a woman, my personal experience is that a smooth talker can be very easy to fall for, especially when I was younger and had less life experience. (We were talking about SS specifically so I feel her age may have been a factor; the CSK may have become bolder and/or his approach changed subsequently with JR and CG.)

There are also people out there who have a very strong radar for who will make a good victim for their purposes.

Without knowing who the CSK is or anything about their attributes, we do know a few things from the situation:
1. The CSK was a predator with a heinous agenda;
2. The CSK was capable of abducting three women from a popular nightspot without clear witnesses or evidence of a struggle (not to say there wasn't a struggle, just no evidence of one);
3. The CSK has not let on what they have done in at least 20 years in such a manner that concerned someone enough to go to the police and led to an arrest;
4. The CSK was brazen enough to conduct the third abduction when publicity about a serial killer targeting women in Claremont was everywhere and police had formed a task force; and
5. One of the bodies has never been found.

What does that suggest if not someone with two very distinct personas, controlled, meticulous, determined, sinister and manipulative? That to me is exactly the sort of person who would know who to target and how to smooth talk (even if only because the CSK has managed to conceal the part of their personality that shows them to be the CSK for all this time).

JMO


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Great post Akai! I think people under-estimate how cunning these SKs can be (that doesn't mean super intelligent, it's single-mindedness, deviousness. They know what they want and they will do what they need to do, whatever that is, to get it). Even some I've researched who have had very little education and were hardly attractive, have managed to charm women, not that the women wanted to be intimate with them, just that they trusted them enough to get a lift from them, or stop and talk to them briefly, sometimes before being blitzed and dragged away. IF the accused is the CSK and has committed ALL the crimes he's been accused of, he has had a lot of experience from a very young age. Watching and waiting has been his MO in the past (beginning with the prowling and peeping, theft of garments/trophies of his exploits into other people's yards/and observing their lives through the windows), and there were no doubt many nights the "environment" wasn't right and he went home having to wait (and plan) again. Agree about him not having to be Prince Charming or even George Clooney (nope not my type either, not that that's keeping George up at night with worry!) A quietly spoken older guy, tall and strong looking would maybe give a feeling of safety to young SS, and I think too, different approaches/methods for different women. And we are taught to have good manners and be friendly aren't we? I think our Claremont women were all kind hearted, polite women who would have stopped to chat with someone who approached them or drove up and stopped to speak to them. JMO
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[El Gordo]

When was the term CSK first used , were the media brazen enough to use this term before the third disappearance and why do people assume there were abductions , we know there were at least 2 murders , but they may have happened on the spot for all anybody knows

I dont know that the CSK had an agenda or that he was a predator , he may well have been an opportunist , no stalking or planning required

I do not know that another persons concerns led to his arrest , I don't know much at all and am happy to admit it

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I know on this site there has been the debate of whether the girls got into the car or if they were abducted. I have seen several articles where it seems to indicate they got into the car maybe because CG was seen talking to the occupant of a car. There was also talk of fake taxis driving around the area.

"PAUL FERGUSON: Got into the wrong car and it cost them their lives. The answer is out there. Someone who is listening has the answer."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/a/28471453/transcript-catching-the-claremont-killer/

Why does Ferguson say 'listening'? "Someone who is listening has the answer."
If this quote is from a TV broadcast/ press release- wouldn't he say 'someone who is WATCHING has the answer."

Is this a slip of the tongue, semantics, or a subtle clue? Did alleged CSK listen in to phone conversations? Stalking victims?


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[Pandit]

I think he was listening or monitoring to give himself an edge, to what extent no idea but given we now know him to be the Telstra Tech ... why wouldn't he?

Why does Ferguson say 'listening'? "Someone who is listening has the answer."
If this quote is from a TV broadcast/ press release- wouldn't he say 'someone who is WATCHING has the answer."

Is this a slip of the tongue, semantics, or a subtle clue? Did alleged CSK listen in to phone conversations? Stalkinh victims?


............................................
Posts my opinion unless source included. All my original text/images are my personal copyright and can't be reproduced outside of WebSleuths without my permission.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]